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The Brexit Saga

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  • The Brexit Saga

    Who is following the most epic drama of Brexit?

  • #2
    Urgh, I wish they'd just hurry the hell up and finalize something...anything, I'm tired of hearing about it to the point where I don't even care what happens now.


    The only thing I know is that a no deal Brexit sounds like an incredibly stupid idea so I'm glad that got blocked but who knows if that will stay that way.
    Politics is silly.


    Really though I feel like we should just have a second referendum and then nobody can fight against it properly either way, if the same vote happens then whatever, Brexit is happening. Too much energy is flying around in all directions so it'd be great to focus it somewhere, that way if Brexit happens there's more people devoted to making it less terrible...(for themselves)

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    • #3
      Why have a second referendum when you had one and have a conclusive result. There was a vote, Brexit wins, now it's time to deliver Brexit. To do anything else just undermines the whole process.

      Rip the band-aid and let the cards fall where they may. You will be better off without them.

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      • #4
        A referendum based on lies, in which said lies are quickly discarded in favor of "this is what the people demanded" (keep in mind all the talking points used to convince them were dropped) when the people were never at any point in this process trusted with information, is not democracy, it is a parody of just such a process. The majority of the people and legislators both oppose a hard no-deal brexit. Remember, they only voted 'brexit,' not going alone and leaving Britain to the mercy of the United States as an effective protectorate.

        Now we have the Prime Minister and the puppet Queen suspending parliament, the organization meant to put forward the people's will, forcing it against the wishes of the people, to the point where Boris Johnson has attempted to put Operation Yellowhammer forward utilizing the help of the military to aide attempts to 'maintain order' in the country in the aftermath of a no deal Brexit.

        The Chief of General Staff thankfully has iirc has stated the military wouldn't participate in Operation Yellowhammer (meaning it's almost certain to fail with only the police to rely upon), but to put this in another perspective, the army is mutinying against the prime minister now.

        No matter what people voted it was not this kind of brexit, where the parliament is rebelling against it's prime minister, Queen having prorogued parliament and the military is being asked to step in and keep order (to which they refuse), a possible reignition of the Troubles (in other words terrorism in Northern Ireland flaring up), renewed separatist movements in Scotland (the vote to stay with the UK was predicated on the UK being inside the EU, this is obviously no longer the case) and Northern Ireland (who can rejoin with Ireland proper), and the fact that there is no plan leading to the UK being at the mercy of other nations with even less control over it's destiny than before.

        I don't think any Brexit voter wanted this version of Brexit.
        Last edited by Tinny; 06-09-2019, 12:07 AM.

        Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi

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        • #5
          To suggest the first referendum is somehow invalid because politicians lied, were misleading or somehow made promises they could not keep would also suggest that every election in human history is also invalid.

          In truth, you had your campaigns on both ends to lay forth your case. Should Britain leave the EU? Why and why not. Both sides made their case and a vote was held. A vote that was never honoured and now people like you want a do over in hope that it now goes your way.

          Say there was a second vote and remain wins. What stops the Brexit people from calling for a third? If Brexit wins a second time, what is stopping the Remainers from calling for a third? This is just nonsensical. If you don't wish to honour that referendum, vote for someone in the next election that pledges to go back on that. Make that case and hope they win.

          Otherwise, you lost, and it's time to face the music.
          Last edited by Mystic Omega; 07-09-2019, 06:40 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mystic Omega View Post
            To suggest the first referendum is somehow invalid because politicians lied, were misleading or somehow made promises they could not keep would also suggest that every election in human history is also invalid.

            In truth, you had your campaigns on both ends to lay forth your case. Should Britain leave the EU? Why and why not. Both sides made their case and a vote was held. A vote that was never honoured and now people like you want a do over in hope that it now goes your way.

            Say there was a second vote and remain wins. What stops the Brexit people from calling for a third? If Brexit wins a second time, what is stopping the Remainers from calling for a third? This is just nonsensical. If you don't wish to honour that referendum, vote for someone in the next election that pledges to go back on that. Make that case and hope they win.

            Otherwise, you lost, and it's time to face the music.
            Why does it have to go down that particular slippery slope?

            You can't reasonably suggest it was a legit vote.


            There were two options but a multitude of different outcomes. Everyone who voted to leave didn't vote for the same thing.
            There's really only a small selection of people who are ultimately going to get what they voted for, it's a pretty BS ordeal at best.

            There should be a second referendum because of how stupid it all is. Barely anyone understood the gravity of what it is. It's not like picking a President or Prime Minister who has some set goals they will ideally adhere to it's just been a farcical mess and none of them can even decide what to do.

            How can anyone who voted Leave feel secure here? Pretty much only people who are so rich none of it can affect them will ever benefit from it.


            Another referendum and then if we go Leave again we can divert all attention towards how we want to leave so we don't cripple the damn country.

            Or now that the wool isn't over everyones eyes we Remain and don't have to be at the mercy of a bunch of plonkers who have no idea what they're doing despite being in the very position where they're supposed to know what they're doing the most.


            Such a complicated process shouldn't be dictated by one measly yes or no vote. That's hardly democratic.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mystic Omega View Post
              To suggest the first referendum is somehow invalid because politicians lied, were misleading or somehow made promises they could not keep would also suggest that every election in human history is also invalid.

              In truth, you had your campaigns on both ends to lay forth your case. Should Britain leave the EU? Why and why not. Both sides made their case and a vote was held. A vote that was never honoured and now people like you want a do over in hope that it now goes your way.

              Say there was a second vote and remain wins. What stops the Brexit people from calling for a third? If Brexit wins a second time, what is stopping the Remainers from calling for a third? This is just nonsensical. If you don't wish to honour that referendum, vote for someone in the next election that pledges to go back on that. Make that case and hope they win.

              Otherwise, you lost, and it's time to face the music.
              Two things, First is that our elections are in many ways false and utilized to only appear like the will of the people while in actuality having little to do with that, FPTP voting, the primaries system, the conservatives not voting on their leader, all are things that play against the actual spirit of democracy and most liberal democracies like Britain or the United States should not simply be considered the epitome of representation.

              The second is that even if we are to assume that Britain already is, this vote is unique in that it takes something that is the responsibility of representatives (who supposedly are supposed to do this) and cowardly foists it onto an ill-prepared populace, before launching into falsehood after falsehood in which the suposed representatives clearly did not trust the people with this vote despite hoisting it on them in the first place.

              My statements have been made, the second vote is valid because the circumstances, as well as the will of the people, have changed. If the remainers were to win, and then the EU announced it was unifying in a month and all countries would be subsumed into the EU government, then the circumstances and likely the will of the people would again change, in which case I'd allow for a third referendum, because the deal and circumstances have changed. This is not a team sport with winners or losers, this is how the country is run, and the people should always have a choice in it. Right now the brexiteers can't even choose the brexit they want, maybe they wanted something like the Swiss deals with the EU but now they won't get that, because Boris Johnson has fought against the democratic institutions in order to betray his country to the Americans.

              Also I'm an American, it's kinda weird to hear you talk to me from an American perspective to what you think is apparently a salty Briton.

              Steve Sad as it is to say, and as clearly shown in this process, many people (looking at you Boris) only use democracy as a tactic. the "people" (which is to say iirc around 15%-25% or so of the actual populace?) made a yes/no vote for action with many different permutations. Hell I wouldn't even mind leaving it as a brexit if we had a second referendum on what kind of brexit (based on the various systems of affiliation that the EU provides) we want, ranging from a Scandinavian system to what the Swiss basically have to a hard brexit.

              Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tinny View Post
                Sad as it is to say, and as clearly shown in this process, many people (looking at you Boris) only use democracy as a tactic. the "people" (which is to say iirc around 15%-25% or so of the actual populace?) made a yes/no vote for action with many different permutations. Hell I wouldn't even mind leaving it as a brexit if we had a second referendum on what kind of brexit (based on the various systems of affiliation that the EU provides) we want, ranging from a Scandinavian system to what the Swiss basically have to a hard brexit.
                Yeah, I for one know crap all about the particulars of it but it's clear that "Brexit" while only one word encompasses a pretty freaking vast ordeal and the people should have a say and should be told about what the hell is even going on.

                Basically every day I look at my phone I see a headline about something different happening with Brexit, it's complete nonsense, I doubt even 1% of the public really understands what's going on, even those who still want to leave. It's a mess and it's truly embarrassing to live here right now.
                I vote that we throw poo all over parliament. Gunpowder wouldn't do is it justice.


                If not a referndum at the very least we should be voting on how Brexit itself happens instead of just shuffling around Prime Ministers until one speaks some sense which probably won't happen until we have no option but to get one of the Queen's corgi's to helm the country.

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