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Game of Thrones Discussion

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  • #31
    Spoiler Alert!
    Jon being a Targaryan definitely mattered since it was one of Tyrion's arguments for killing Daenerys. It would've been a huge obstacle for Daenerys if she decided to be Queen, no matter how much Jon tells her she's his queen. It's one of the most pivotal details in the whole show.

    The Unsullied would keep tabs on the kingdom and Jon, their promise to them. No way they would just leave and never check in on the promises made.

    It makes sense for Jon to be Night's Watch/North of the wall since he's the one that will enforce peace between Westeros and the wildlings. I'm sure there could always be some other threat to the kingdom the wall is needed for, aside from being a place for bastards and broken men/women.

    Arya's faceless training is important to her character development, she proves her independence and defiance of being a lady by doing whatever she wants. The training was important for killing the Night King aswell as you mentioned, which was one of the most important moments in the show.

    The prophecy of Azor Ahai is bullshit anyway, it doesn't make an iota of difference, especially considering Jon was exiled to the North and Arya went west (aka none of them took the throne). Drogon is Azor Ahai, he burnt down the throne. Ultimately Melisandre was wrong about everything. The Many-Faced God is the one true god.

    The Unsullied didn't want land in Westeros, they have no say in it after Bran is elected King. Tyrion didn't want to be Hand, now he has to fix all the mistakes he's made. As for Jon, it was stated Grey Worm was satisfied with life sentence at the Night's Watch. That's all there is.

    Bran can't do everything himself. He can't be everywhere at all times, he will need assistance which is why a Master of Whisperer is necessary.

    I'm happy with the solution of Bran the Broken becoming King. He is the memory of the world and will possibly live for a very very long time.

    I'm pretty happy with how it ended honestly, had some minor gripes but overall it was satisfying. I know people are split on the ending but it's fine by me.


    • #32
      Yeah I think it was a great ending overall, people are utterly clueless if they think there was any ending that would have satisfied all the fans.
      There is great irony in that final discussion they had.

      Spoiler Alert!
      "Nobody is very happy" had to have a little chuckle at that in retrospect

      Personally I'm very happy, I was very much hyped in to the EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE train but a lot of great characters survived

      My main issue now is that it seemed a bit silly that Daenerys still trusted Jon, their relationship didn't get enough time to build up strength. I would assume that she would retreat in to herself and trust almost nobody after being betrayed by several people...several men and being in such a critical position.
      That's why I assumed Drogon would try and fail to burn Jon, since with his obvious reservations in all this could she really wholeheartedly trust him as she had before?

      That's a tough pill to swallow. I guess she was going mad but...it kind of didn't seem like true madness to me, just a God complex where she'd built up the idea of being the one true justice, not that she was truly insane or anything.
      I still wonder how much Targaryen madness is truly a thing anyway.

      Not that this ruined the show or anything.


      • #33
        Honestly, I can't agree with you guys completely. But I'm glad that there are people that enjoy the ending. I agree, there's no way everyone would be happy and it's a better outcome than many other options tbh.
        Spoiler Alert!
        I am at least happy that they didn't kill off Jon. I mean, that was highly likely and didn't happen. Also, after seeing it online the very end of the series when they're leaving the wall correlates perfectly with the first episode of the series when those Night's Watch soldiers are leaving the wall. Crazy and very cool how they did that. I saw some fans theorizing that the White Walkers would come back yet again. But if they ever did come back it'd be way too soon. I think that theory is quite too farfetched. But I do like the comparison to the first episode.

        I look forward to the spin-off, that I believe takes place during the first Long Night. So it should have Azor Ahai.


        • #34
          If they did I wonder why the Whitewalkers would come back though, unless the Night King just respawns. It's not really clear what he wanted anyway.
          Maybe now humanity is fixing it's shit there'll be no need to do that.

          It would be interesting if it turned out he was a force put forth by whatever Gods are in play to change the world or break it, as in they saw this current future or the slate being wiped clean and he was made possible to set all this in motion. He acted rather strangely like he had a purpose.
          Idk, I'm not mad in to the lore. Feel like it'd be cool if there was some big reason for why it all happened, hell filled up from all the senseless murder.

          For real though

          Spoiler Alert!
          Would Jon keep the "shall father no children" part of his punishment, I bet he ran away north of the wall so he could bang all the wildlings in secrecy.
          He couldn't keep Ygritte so maybe he'll go for another lovely ginger, Tormund is a good pick.


          • #35
            Spoiler Alert!
            It seemed more like a way to satisfy Grey Worm than anything else by sending Jon to the Night's Watch since it doesn't really exist anymore. I see no reason why he'd keep any of the vows other than heading south of the wall. I'd like to think he revives the Targaryen House with a wildling, that'd be cool.


            • #36
              Apologies in advance. This is a very long rant from a huge aSoIaF fan that hasn't really posted his comprehensive thoughts on this season yet. Now that the finale is done, I'm condensing it into one big rant. It covers all of my gripes leading up to and including season 8. I put the season 8 exclusive stuff into spoilers. So, if you want to skip my bitching about seasons 5-7 and how I feel this downfall has been coming for a long time now, feel free to skip to the spoiler section of this post. I wrote all my gripes with seasons 5-7 down to point out that this isn't exactly just a season 8 thing, but, something Dumb and Dumber have been snowballing into as season 8 landed due to having no more source material to adapt. As I wrote this colossal post, I decided to separate my gripes about each season into their own separate spoilers.

              Sorry I have been missing from this topic after being so prominent in the one on the archived board. I've been ranting and raving to Emmeth and POOHEAD189 in #spoilers on Discord, in vc, and eventually in our own 3-way DM group so as to avoid spoiling the final season for others/have people unknowingly stumble in to me stewing and spitting hate towards the later seasons. I think I'm one of the few, if not the only, currently active member here that has read all the books; including the prequel novellas. This, of course, makes me far more hypercritical of the show. Keep that in mind. Though, I do think the majority of viewers dislike or downright hate season 8, for the most part. Not all, but, definitely a majority as one can say with a degree of certainty looking at the 1.5 million and rapidly climbing petition on Change.org to re-do the entire season. A petition I signed, as a matter of fact. Not because I think it'll ever happen, nor do I think it's a reasonable thing to expect to happen no matter how many signatures the petition gets. I mostly just signed to join the masses in relaying my disgust.

              To start, season 5.

              Spoiler Alert!
              Season 5 griping: I felt Game of Thrones was going downhill during season 5. Besides Hardhome, the character assassination/death of Stannis Baratheon, Sansa getting raped and Dany flying out of the Fighting Pits on Drogon's back, what memorable moments were there really? It was a lot of fluff and not much happening. You can name many good scenes and key moments during the first four seasons. Even with the few examples I just listed, at least half of them are memorable purely due to infamy and the controversy surrounding them. They were largely viewed as awful decisions by the writers. However, not many people became livid about them because the show was literally the greatest thing on television up to that point. Of course we'd give some slack on a few bad calls. By comparison, in the books, Stannis is still alive and leaves his daughter, wife and Melisandre at the Wall with Jon. When his soldiers demand the sacrifice of an unbeliever to quell the winter storms, Stannis says something like "half of my army is made of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder." Pray harder. That's his response to the demands to burn some random unnamed northerner. In the show? Barbecues his daughter. All because Ramsay's "20 good men" pretty much decimate his army in the middle of the night without knowing where they were in the vast expanse of the northern kingdom.

              This bothered me so much that I picked up the books. It seriously disturbed me. Sansa's rape was also awful. She went from one terrible guy in Joffrey to an even worse one with Ramsay. Why was this necessary? It makes the genius and conniving Littlefinger look like a fucking idiot for not knowing Ramsay's infamous psychopathy. Petyr Baelish has an expansive spy network, second only to Varys'. How could he have not known about Ramsay's renowned brutality? You'd think he would do some research before he handed the key to the North over to them. After all, he was a co-conspirator in the assassination of a King to get Sansa. Right after Sansa had found herself out of the abuse of Joffrey, she is to be raped by Ramsay? This was one of their worst decisions. Brienne staring at a candle all season only to abandon her post last-second and magically find Stannis and execute him in the middle of a major battle; despite only ever seeing the guy in the form of a Melisandre vaginal spirit for a couple of seconds when Renly was killed years prior. It was a spirit that resembled Stannis but still was very difficult to distinguish the facial features of. Convenient for Brienne and outright character assassination.

              Season 6.

              Spoiler Alert!
              Season 6: One of my other favorite characters in the books, Doran Martell. I was very excited to see how the Dornish plot would unfold. I was more disappointed than I could ever imagine. To avenge House Martell and her lover Oberyn, Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes decide that... murdering the remaining members of House Martell is vengeance for House Martell? What?? Jaime/Bronn's buddy cop antics were amusing but unnecessary and the dialogue was outright cringy. It's pretty much universally agreed at least that the Sand Snakes were awful. A shame, considering they were actually fairly good side characters in the books. Doran Martell, in the books, is quite the schemer and a fascinating man. In the show? Character assassination. When I try to tell people about how much I love Doran from the books, I have to find an image of him from the show to remind them who he even was. That's how bad his character assassination was. In the books, he is one of the major players. In the show? He is completely forgettable. I get that they have to make cuts from the book vs. the show, but, D&D wanted to end the show after only seven seasons. Martin and HBO talked them into 8. HBO allegedly offered up to ten seasons w/ ten episodes each and pretty much all the money they could ever want. But, no.

              Season 6 was better than season 5, I will admit. It certainly had many of the issues that season 5 did and is not even close to approaching the greatness of seasons 1-4, but, the Battle of the Bastards was fantastic. I had a few issues with the stupidity regarding battle strategy. I mean, if you have a damn castle, you use it, you fight in it, you pack every man you can in it, not engage someone in the open field! This is common sense! Winterfell was Ramsay's best offense and defense. Could he have not did what he did regarding Rickon from the castle walls, then force Jon and co. to charge the castle? Put a good number of troops outside the castle of course, but, use the damn castle! Ramsay might have won even w/ the Knights of the Vale had he done so. I digress, this is nitpicking and far from the worst example of botched battle strategy in GoT. While some people dislike what Cersei did in the Great Sept of Baelor and I can understand some of the logic, I disagree. It was truly a strong moment and definitely foreshadowed/had been built up to over time. Not some stupid asspull for shock value. Tommen's death, while predictable, was good in the sense that it mirrored Bran's own fall from the tower except it was Jaime/Cersei's kid this time and made sense given what had just occurred.

              Season 7.

              Spoiler Alert!
              Season 7: This post is super fucking long and if you're somehow keeping up with it, I apologize and thank you, lol. Now that the character/literal assassination of two of my most beloved book characters (Stannis Baratheon/Doran Martell) has been covered, I can dial back my passionate ranting a little from here on out. At least for season 7. The tension between Arya and Sansa was so fake, over inflated and artificial. It felt like D&D were aspiring to write the same kind of high stakes political scheming that George does in the books. It didn't work, at all. It was cringe-inducing and honestly, Littlefinger also suffered from a good deal of character assassination. Everything about it was so forced and predictable. I knew it was so ridiculous for Sansa/Arya to be feuding the way they were that it had to be a bait and switch for Littlefinger. And it was. And Littlefinger didn't even really stay true to his character in his final scene. He knew a bit about Brandon and even had his own quote (that he said only to Varys, completely alone, while Brandon wasn't even in the Seven Kingdoms) recited back to him, "chaos is a ladder", and since he probably had at least some idea in his mind that Bran was... something more, he would deduce that this is not a scheme he can try to tie together.

              I don't know. It felt off and awkward and like a lot of poor writing and dominates my image of season 7. I can't quite articulate it anywhere near as well as my complaints about seasons 5 & 6. The episode "Beyond the Wall" really abused the fast traveling system and had a lot of forced character interactions and unnecessary moments. With the show on such a limited schedule of episodes going forward after the already-short season 7 finished, a lot of it seemed like filler. Nobody dying but Thoros - and he died just to remove Beric Dondarrion's battle res and to give us a mandatory character death, which felt forced - was a crazy amount of plot armor. Season 7 suffered a lot of what 5 did in the sense that it had a lot of fluff/filler and not so much substance. Substance it REALLY needed. Build up for season 8 that was essential to give the onslaught of stupidity in the final six episodes at least a little bit of credence. The only really badass and top tier episode of season 7 that I had almost no issues with was Drogon obliterating the Lannister army and Jaime being tackled off his horse last second by Bronn while charging Daenerys. That's it. Like season 5, it had a handful of memorable moments but half or over half (in my opinion) are memorable for them being outright bad. I went from thinking season 5 was an aberration because season 6 was solid - not great, but, good - to believing season 6 was the aberration and 5/7 were the new norm. This feeling I could not shake, especially after re-watching it all from the beginning, plus the two year wait before the meager six episodes of season 8 had me really apathetic and disinterested.

              And for season 8.

              Spoiler Alert!
              What an unmitigated disaster, trainwreck. D&D only wanted SEVEN SEASONS. HBO and GRRM talked them into eight, but, between 7/8 it was basically just one season anyway. Except it took them two years to make six episodes. How?? I'm sorry, but, it was fucking awful. It was still decent TV, and I'm glad they made GoT into a TV series in the first place. Without it, I would never have discovered aSoIaF - the book series. Seasons 1-4 were brilliant adaptations. Season 8 episode 1 was mostly just buildup and filler. Yeah, I gave it a pass at the time because, y'know, it's the premiere episode of a new season. They usually are fairly slow. My only significant and I think justified complaint was/is that there is only six episodes to wrap everything up, though. It definitely needed something significant and plot driving beyond simple setup as a result. Because of season 7, I was getting worried but, as I said, just the premiere. I cut it some slack. Then episode 2 rolls around. Again, a lot of it felt like more fluff and filler. If I went over a plot synopsis for each of these episodes I could go into a lot more depth about each individual aspect of them that felt wrong or disappointed, but, I don't think anybody wants that, including me, xD. It was mostly forgetful I guess is my point. It felt like even more setup and while R+L=J comes out here, it ultimately amounts to little. Almost a pointless thing to the plot, despite being such a huge revelation in both book and show alike.

              While I think my complaints about too much unnecessary fluff/filler has been a serious issue since season 7 and now especially in 8 with such little time left, I did love the scene where they drank together in Winterfell on the eve of the Short Night. I actually felt like there was some meaning and purpose to its inclusion and seemed like a totally authentic thing to happen considering the Night King was rapidly approaching. The scene where Jaime knighted Brienne was great and well deserved, for both characters. Many people took issue with Arya x Gendry and while it was a little bit strange to imagine the girl that was like, 10 or 11, during season 1 to get at least partially nude... she's 18 in the show and 22 +/- a year in real life. It was a perfectly understandable reaction.

              THEN COMES THE NIGHT KING... God, I literally said out loud during episode 2 and the middle of episode 3 that they didn't go with the generic horror movie trope of "kill the leader and all the others will die". And then as the episode progressed I knew it would have to go that way. I have a mixed feeling as to the very common and understandable complaint that the episode was too dark. It really was in spots. However, I understood why and it helped with the ambiance. I don't love it but at certain points I liked it, tbh! At other times, I disliked it. Never did I love or outright hate it. It was confusing to try to make out what was happening, especially in the aerial portions with Dany, Jon and the NK. However, on the ground, it usually wasn't so dark I couldn't make out the situation in general. Definitely should have been brighter but that's not my chief complaint. The Others/White Walkers have been hyped since season 1 episode 1, the first scene of the entire series. Same with the books. While there is no Night King in the books, this guy was a huge fucking deal. Yet he doesn't fight, Walder Frey kills off more main characters than he does and he is dispatched in a single episode by questionable means.

              When I was watching it, I cheered and didn't think much of it. But then after thinking about it more than skin-deep, I really thought about the whole episode again. I rewatched it. It goes back to the Battle of the Bastards. Why not pack every man you possibly can into Winterfell? I get it's a TV show inspired by various history dating back to the 14th-16th centuries. However, they often have gone out of their way to paint many characters as excellent tacticians and knowing thoroughly about war tactics. How could they fail even the basics? They put the catapults behind the cavalry charge which rendered them useless. Ugh... I could go on and on. But, speaking of the cavalry charge, how did 50% of the Dothraki survive?! That was an incredibly stupid battle tactic on its own purely done for the visual spectacle of watching all the lights go out, after all, until Melisandre showed up at the literal last minute, they were about to attack with regular weapons - not obsidian or Valyrian Steel. They could do nothing to the Army of the Dead, lol. There was a lot of plot armor and that "foreshadowing" to season 3 seemed like a coincidence that they pretended was foreshadowing. The payoff just wasn't there. I hated the way the Others were handled. I could go on for many paragraphs about this but this post is already absurd in length.

              Season 8 episode 4. OOF... well, on top of "Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet" for fucks' sakes, that distance, mid-flight and whatnot... how did Euron Greyjoy, the worst book-to-TV character adaptation ever made, end up the greatest sniper in fiction? Holy shit. Purely for shock and awe, nothing else. Why didn't Cersei kill them all when Queen Daenerys, her Hand/the man that Cersei has wanted to kill all her life, Grey Worm the leader of the Unsullied, and Drogon were all standing at the gates with a small retainer of Unsullied w/ them and Drogon waaay in the back behind them, meaning they had no easy escape? Since when is Cersei honorable? She blew up the Great Sept of Baelor to mass murder all of her enemies in one fell swoop - an act of terrorism on her own city - including many innocents on the outside with the Mad Kings' wildfire caches. She took power immediately after her last son took the term "Kings' Landing" far too literally and barely appeared to grieve, unlike w/ Myrcella or Joffrey. And she's not going to win the war and annihilate the entirety of her opposition because of some sense of honor or morality?! WHAT?! This was fucking stupid on the highest caliber. There were improved scorpions that had somehow wrecked Rhaegal on top of the walls aimed at them. Drogon was easily in range if Rhaegal was shot down at that height/mid-flight/distance. Everyone she wants dead is right in front of her. Literally everyone. And she doesn't do it? Cersei did nothing this season and acted so out of character here.

              The one thing on episode 4 that I think was okay despite so many people hating it was actually Jaime's turn back. Yeah, I thought it was a bit too much fanservice-y w/ him and Brienne and then him immediately doing a 180 afterward. However, as I've said, crunched for time due to many pointless scenes, including some in this episode during the feast (seriously... such timewasters). However, Jaime's arc is about how far can someone go and still redeem themselves? While it's definitely arguable that Jaime can and even was redeemed, it's not so important what we, as the viewer, think. Most of us can probably empathize with Jaime. As Stannis said in the books, a good act does not wash out the bad nor the bad the good. And for Jaime, he can never wash out those bad acts. He can never forget them. Whenever he feels some semblance of happiness or peace, he feels as if he doesn't deserve it and sabotages himself. Jaime is capable of so much good and has proven it. He's also capable of some truly despicable things. He has let himself be defined by those bad acts solely. While I don't think his arc ends very well in the following episode (mostly due to Euron aka Discount Jack Sparrow's dumb bullshit - seriously, what a garbage character in the show) and getting killed by rocks... I don't hate this move. I think it could have used a bit more time to be fleshed out but they have wasted so much of it. Him going back to Cersei doesn't ruin the character for me, nor his arc, but I get why people hate it. For me, I see the reason why they hate it as another symptom of bad writing + rushed plotlines.

              Then episode 5. When I thought Stannis' character assassination was incredibly bad and Doran Martell's sudden fate was particularly bizarre and out of nowhere for shock value... this happens. While I can nitpick about how Varys, a man who repeatedly did everything he could to spare his own ass in earlier seasons, threw caution to the wind and got himself killed. That's a nitpick. However, the big thing I have an issue with is obvious: Mad Queen Daenerys. Even in the books, she's showing some signs of potentially going mad. In the show? Nothing was shown. In season 8 episode 4, she was jealous of Jon's affection at the feast post-Short Night victory. That is understandable. When Dickon and Randyll Tarly burned, it's because they refused to bend the knee after they fought against her and lost. They chose death. Anyone would have killed them, including Ned Stark in such a situation. The method is surely unique, but, it's Daenerys. She has a damn dragon. Executing them with dragonfire isn't a mad or insane act, I can't believe people try to argue this point.

              When she has killed on dragonback before, she was in battle. When she crucified the slave masters of Meereen, it was a bad political move. As she traveled, there were crucified children as markers along the way. It was gruesome, horrible and meant to send her a message. The vast majority of the slave masters were horrible people. It's understandable why she did what she did. It was hotheaded and politically not a smart move, but, it was far from mad nor was it cruel or hurting anyone innocent of any wrongdoing. The only over the line cruel thing she did regarding them was burning that one Master after she was certain one of them were leading the Sons of the Harpy or at least knew some information. That was going too far, but, again, Barristan Selmy had just been killed for shock factor (another season 5 fuckup) and killing people left and right/undermining her. In Vaes Dothrak, they were trying to keep her there for the rest of her life because Drogo was dead and were even threatening her life and going to keep her from her dragons, iirc. They were more awful people. With the House of the Undying, they wanted to enslave her for eternity to enhance their magical abilities and steal her dragons. They were monsters. With Mirri Maz Duur (sp?) she had been tricked into turning Drogo into a vegetable and in the process became unable to have children ever again including losing her own unborn child. With Viserys, he was only interested in using her to gain power to seize the Iron Throne and saw her as an object. He frequently abused her and in the books even went so far as to say he would rape her for himself if he didn't need her a virgin to sell her off to Khal Drogo.

              So, where is this foreshadowing or buildup for Daenerys to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people living in a city that had just formally surrendered? So many other characters in this show have lost more than Daenerys has. While her three big losses happened in a short span of time, I know Dany's not the only one. Hell, Arya lost her father and as she was about to reunite with her oldest brother, mother and uncle, the first two were brutally murdered at the Red Wedding and Edmure taken captive. This was just after Brandon and Rickon were thought dead to the world due to Theon seizing Winterfell. There was nothing that led up to this moment. Had the city refused to surrender or Dany merely snapped and went after the Red Keep itself where Cersei was, it would have been more understandable. Instead, it was pure shock value for the sake of it. I had so many other issues with this episode but this post is a god damn leviathan and Daenerys was fucking ruined. The show has done so poorly in the last two seasons.

              The finale was predictable and boring. The only thing I didn't predict was Bran becoming King due to some flimsy reason. Also, Arya deciding to become Christopher Columbus for some reason even though she hasn't ever shown an interest in cartography or anything like that. The scene w/ Jon petting Ghost was recycled from season 4, and there's just little to comment on. I'm burnt out and it was hard to care. It was a lot of rip off from LotR and I just... didn't care anymore. They ruined Daenerys w/ little to no buildup and the last two seasons have been steaming dogshit. Hell, season 8 makes season 7 look great in comparison. I can't believe they had two years to write this and it's this bad. Brandon did nothing and was a wasted character, too. It's like horrible fanfiction. It's a shame, really. The actors and cinematography, everything was on point. So many amazing performances. Sadly, a drunken ape with brain damage could probably manage better fanfiction than this. D&D were offered all the money they could need plus ten seasons w/ ten episodes in each season and they declined. They wanted just seven seasons. Look at what happened. I could go on for hours, trust me, this is a dumpster fire.

              I really feel sorry for Star Wars fans. Dumb and Dumber are about to succeed Rian Johnson in pounding another beloved franchise into the dirt with their shitty writing. I'm getting heated and originally came on to make an RP post, so, I'm gonna stop here, lmao. Season 8 is an unmitigated disaster.

              btw, as far as Jon getting burnt goes, he can be burnt by regular fire. When Jeor Mormont was attacked by one of the first Wights we see in season 1, Jon kills it using a lantern. The fire spreads to his hand/forearm and he gets a nasty burn. It's much worse in the books, but, in both iterations, he is burned by regular fire. I think dragonfire would be overkill lol. He should have tried shouting at Drogon, though. That worked the first time!
              Brother! Your crusade IS OVER!!



              • #37
                There's a lot there so obviously not going to reply to it all but one thing.

                Executing them with dragonfire isn't a mad or insane act, I can't believe people try to argue this point.
                It isn't exactly but...it is needlessly cruel. She could have had anyone decapitate them for a near instant death but she always chose probably one of the most painful deaths a person could ever have.

                I think there were plenty hints at her not being the hero people wanted her to be in the show, people just didn't want to see it. I've been thinking it since many years ago, it should have been on everyones mind even just with her bloodline. People should have been focused on what she was actually doing more.
                She so rarely extended a hand of mercy, it was always do as I say or just die and whenever there was a merciful option it was almost always because Tyrion or another character stepped in and pleaded with her to be kind.

                She was always killing bad people but always did it in the most ruthless of ways, I'm really not sure why few people ever considered what her true sense of justice is, it seemed clear to me she was always in danger of being a dictator who decides what's right and wrong on a whim.


                • #38
                  I stopped watching this show after the first season and only read the first the first three books of ASOIAF... this franchise's definitely not for me but here's an obvious consideration about TV endings that people have been bringing up: regardless of how they ended this show, people would've hated it. And while I have no way of knowing if this particular show ended poorly or not, reaction would've always been lukewarm-to-negative due to the show's very nature. Like Battlestar Galactica or Lost, it's a serialized drama that most people watched simply to see "what happened next", like a soap opera. And "what happened next" was never going to be what people wanted.

                  I love the endings to both Lost and BSG, mostly because they seemingly go out of their way to give the audience exactly what they don't want. They tap into the mystical aspect of the show instead of just "explaining the mysteries" or some other cheap, textually lazy crap. GoT's ending seems to be pretty ordinary in comparison... the synopsis tells me that it was mostly just concerned with tying up every storyline. But people still hated it because of course they would. It was a foregone conclusion.

                  Has there ever been a popular serialized TV drama in this model with an ending that wasn't at least "divisive"?


                  • #39
                    Just ran through a bunch of shows in my head and you're absolutely right. How was Breaking Bad's finale recieved because in my opinion that had one of the more satisfying conclusions to a serial drama but I struggle to think of anymore. The Sopranos, The Wire, Lost. Great shows all with unsatisying endings.

                    The genre that gets it right far more often than straight drama are comedies. Only Fools and Horses, brilliant ending. Vicar of Dibley, brilliant ending, Cheers, brilliant ending. ect.

                    As for Battlestar Galactica I thInk the ending was a bit too "LOL YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHAT" And it didn't really need that big left turn.


                    • #40
                      I actually like most of those unpopular endings you mentioned (Lost, BSG, The Wire, Sopranos). My point was more that, because of the reason people usually watch these shows (to see "what happens next", who'll die, how the mysteries will be solved, engaging with them solely on that level), endings will leave them disappointed no matter what. Which doesn't mean their opinions aren't just as valid as anyone else's, of course, or that there aren't other valid reasons to dislike those endings.

                      But I agree that comedies end well more often than straight dramas... good comedies, at least.

                      (I resent Frasier a bit for kind of undoing the perfect ending of Cheers... I mean, the ending's still there, of couse, but still)


                      • #41
                        Yeah whenever there's a TERRIBLE OMG MY LIFE IS RUINED ending to a show...I find myself enjoying it, I can't really think of one I didn't enjoy other than Heroes I guess(haven't watched that newer thing that came out, I mean the main series)
                        Oh, Dexter was pretty crappy but I didn't hate it as much as most honestly.

                        I thought the endings to LOST and BGS were great. I feel like people get so invested in these shows that they come up with all sorts of ideas on how it will or should end because it's become such a personal part of their life that they feel like it's kind of owed to them to end on their terms, so something that isn't at least vaguely in line with their vision is stupid and not done right.

                        Think I'm just good at enjoying things for what they are rather than what I imagine or expect them to be, I never get invested enough to think I should control a series.

                        GoT will always go down as the funniest one for me since they have a discussion about "Nobody is very happy" and I refuse to believe that wasn't aimed at the audience. It should go down as a lesson for how you should consume and enjoy entertainment.
                        It is what it is, it can't be everything you want it to be.


                        • #42
                          Spoiler Alert!
                          Arya travelling West is actually for a promise she made to Lady Crane back in Serason 6, so it's not completely out of the blue.


                          • #43
                            Spoiler Alert!
                            So one thing I was wondering is why were they keeping the women in the crypt? In Season 6 or 7 Jon said that they couldn't afford to have only half of the population fighting so they needed women to fight too. Yet they completely change that in Season 8 and have them all in the crypt. Which speaking of which I don't know how they didn't see that one coming. Crypt=full of dead people. Night King=brings back dead people. Yeah, let's put the women and children down there.


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Greeny View Post
                              Spoiler Alert!
                              So one thing I was wondering is why were they keeping the women in the crypt? In Season 6 or 7 Jon said that they couldn't afford to have only half of the population fighting so they needed women to fight too. Yet they completely change that in Season 8 and have them all in the crypt. Which speaking of which I don't know how they didn't see that one coming. Crypt=full of dead people. Night King=brings back dead people. Yeah, let's put the women and children down there.
                              I don't feel we need to spoiler that since it's not related to the last episode so I'm gonna refrain.

                              Anyway, I guess some of them are just too useless. Sometimes having more bodies on the field isn't beneficial at all, I think absolutely everyone helped prepare Winterfell for battle and that's all most of them could feasibly do, most of them would get wiped out and just add to the army.

                              As for the latter I can see why that could be obvious but I can also see why people might think there's a time limit on what he can bring back, I mean can he reanimate just a total skeleton? Obviously we've seen many skeletal Wights but I'm not sure we've seen a corpse in that state get raised, I feel like it makes sense for one that's already raised to keep going more than it does for one in incredibly poor condition to get up at all.