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Kaboom's Sensationally Fantastic Power Levels

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  • Kaboom's Sensationally Fantastic Power Levels

    Figured I may as well help fill out this section a little by posting my long-time, painstakingly-crafted, arbitrary power level lists. Just some things to remember...
    1. I make power level lists for fun, as a creative project. It's not a "science" in my book, and there's no greater goal of trying to make the most "accurate" lists going on here. But even still, I'd be happy to answer questions or explain anything that's not already covered by my in-list notes.
    2. I'm focused almost solely on the original Z-era story and the movies/specials that stemmed from it. Those are the only parts where power levels had any appreciable amount of consistency to them, so they're all I really care about. I may try to work out some numbers for the 22nd Tournament through Piccolo portions eventually, but I'm not in any hurry to. Otherwise, I'm not bothering with Super, and while I do include a GT list here, it's... well, you'll see.
    So dive on in at your leisure, and try to have as much fun reading these lists as I had making them. I keep them available as simple little off-site web pages, so I can update them at my leisure and not have to worry about providing new links.

    Main Series Power Levels

    Movies and Specials Power Levels

    GT Power Levels

  • #2
    No, power levels are not for fun, they are a science. Any time now, power scaling is going to become a degree program in Universities. It's not all fun and games, if you butcher power levels, that should be a very serious federal offense. If you can prove somebody placed Kid Buu above Super Buu, they should be shipped to prison immediately. Of course, "innocent until proven guilty" still applies. We don't want perfectly skilled power scalers wrongly convicted of crimes.

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    • #3
      Had a quick look.

      Two of the most impressive tanks in the series:



      Android 16: 500,000,000
      Stage 2 Cell: 700,000,000
      1.4x




      Grade 2 Vegeta: 1,300,000,000
      Perfect Cell: 1,600,000,000
      1.23x

      You have Vegeta and Cell closer than SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza but I don't see Goku tanking any kicks to the neck with a giant grin on his face.

      ---

      The following tankings are shown to be very similar (though I would argue that Gohan's is the most impressive by at least a step)... and yet your numbers tell a different story:



      SSJ Vegeta: 280,000,000
      Post-Absorption 19: 130,000,000
      2.15x



      Grade 2 Vegeta: 1,300,000,000
      Stage 2 Cell: 900,000,000
      1.44x



      SSJ2 Gohan: 7,000,000,000
      Full Power Cell: 4,800,000,000
      1.46x

      You even have Gohan and Cell further apart than Cell and 16... even though it is clear which tanking is inferior.

      ---

      Interestingly, you have Vegeta's gap over 19 almost exactly the same as Freeza's advantage over Vegeta:
      1st Form Freeza: 530,000
      Vegeta: 250,000
      2.12x

      Yet the battles show completely different tales.


      These a few things that stood out at a glance (I'll keep my toes out of the Buu arc for now).
      BREAK THROUGH THE WALL: BECOME SUPER SAIYAN

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      • #4
        I've never cared much at all about specific power gaps. If Toriyama and the people at Shueisha see no need to get that picky, then neither do I. As long as the proper A > B > C power ranking is preserved, it's good enough for me.

        Besides, raw baseline power level is never the only factor in a fight. Stuff like physiology, awareness, and defensive ki amping can always affect how well someone takes a punch.
        Last edited by Kaboom; 01-03-2019, 03:12 AM.

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        • #5
          You're right... those who made the supplementary material clearly didn't care... so it surprises me that some people defend those numbers with such zeal.

          Why bother with a power level list if you care just as little? Without any kind of internal consistency, your numbers mean even less than most. You might as well just make a power chain and be done.

          EDIT:
          Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
          Besides, raw baseline power level is never the only factor in a fight. Stuff like physiology, awareness, and defensive ki amping can always affect how well someone takes a punch.
          Yes, and mostly everyone who attempts to make a list takes these into account.
          Last edited by Vertical; 01-03-2019, 03:29 AM.
          BREAK THROUGH THE WALL: BECOME SUPER SAIYAN

          Comment


          • #6
            Well like I said in my initial post...

            Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
            I make power level lists for fun, as a creative project. It's not a "science" in my book, and there's no greater goal of trying to make the most "accurate" lists going on here.
            You're misunderstanding the point about the official numbers. It's not a downside to play fast and loose with them and not fuss about specific gaps, because that's how Toriyama did it in the first place, and the Shueisha folks followed suit with him. The system as a whole isn't rigid and exact, and it was never meant to be.

            Instead of giving yourself a headache trying to analyze my series numbers, I'd recommend moving on to my movies numbers and trying to actually enjoy reading them. Hopefully you'll get a better sense for how I approach all this.
            Last edited by Kaboom; 01-03-2019, 05:49 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
              Well like I said in my initial post...
              I saw and understand, as anyone should when applying themselves to a power level list, that accuracy is an unreachable goal due to personal interpretations differing. The best anyone can hope for is something accurate to their own beliefs/interpretation that does not directly contradict the content... and that perhaps someone else out there shares those interpretations. But without an internal consistency, you might as well be throwing random numbers at the page.

              Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
              You're misunderstanding the point about the official numbers. It's not a downside to play fast and loose with them and not fuss about specific gaps, because that's how Toriyama did it in the first place, and the Shueisha folks followed suit with him. The system as a whole isn't rigid and exact, and it was never meant to be.
              I'm not misunderstanding. I would not dare say that Toriyama was as exact as I wish he had been but he clearly had a general consistency and Shueisha/Guidebooks did not grasp it.

              Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
              Instead of giving yourself a headache trying to analyze my series numbers, I'd recommend moving on to my movies numbers and trying to actually enjoy reading them. Hopefully you'll get a better sense for how I approach all this.
              Highlighting inconsistency is far from a headache... but I'll pass on the rest of your numbers. Without any kind of internal consistency and the excuse of inconsistent supplementary numbers, they really hold no interest for me.


              In all honesty, I looked at your list hoping to find how someone so dedicated to most official/supplementary material could actually make it all work... and I left disappointed.

              BREAK THROUGH THE WALL: BECOME SUPER SAIYAN

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Vertical View Post
                But without an internal consistency, you might as well be throwing random numbers at the page.
                That's pretty much my point. I don't believe there's any internal consistency to be found in any of the original or guidebook-born numbers to begin with. Toriyama didn't sit there with a calculator and spreadsheet and crunch percentages, he just picked a number for Character A and then a bigger or smaller number for Character B.

                I don't see any good reason to do things differently from Toriyama, and so forcing some overly-rigid gaps scale into existence for my own numbers has always just seemed pointlessly self-limiting, and antithetical to why I make these lists in the first place.

                Originally posted by Vertical View Post
                In all honesty, I looked at your list hoping to find how someone so dedicated to most official/supplementary material could actually make it all work... and I left disappointed.
                It's not a matter of being "dedicated" to the official numbers, it's more just "being okay with them."
                Last edited by Kaboom; 01-03-2019, 08:41 PM.

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                • #9
                  Super Saiyan Goku is more than twice as strong as Freeza at 50% power, yet Freeza can draw blood.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  I think it's safe to say that power gaps don't present a consistent system. The series really is as simple as bigger number beats smaller number. There could be any number of reasons Freeza's death beam here drew blood, and why No. 19 can draw blood from Super Saiyan Vegeta, yet still be weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta even after absorbing Goku's Kamehameha and some of Vegeta's energy. Maybe Freeza's death beam was amped. Maybe both Goku and Vegeta lowered their guard to prove how tough they are. Etc.

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                  • #10
                    What happened to your battle powers? I can't view them anymore.

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