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Could vegeta have beaten frieza on namek if he turned ssj

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  • Could vegeta have beaten frieza on namek if he turned ssj

    Vegetas base was weaker than goku's base power of 3 million,who was able to compete with the initial final form frieza that beat vegeta.when goku turned ssj, his power rose to 150 million.and frieza at max was 120 million.frieza even then was able to put up a decent against goku until his stamina started failing.vegeta was stronger than piccolo and friezas second form, both of which are in the 1 million range. Vegeta was at least in the realm of third form frieza,who is around 2 million or so.for me i have frieza at 2.4 million, which as an ssj would make him equal to frieza which in this case i see him winning.

  • #2
    Frieza was able to hold out against Goku for a brief while so my guess is not if Frieza is out for the kill from the getgo. Vegeta would win quite easily if he manages to hold out long enough for Frieza's power to drop, though.

    There was a world of difference between Base Vegeta and Goku in namek and turning into SSJ would make the gap bigger.

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    • #3
      Freezer stomps by a lot.


      But various points regarding this versus, if we just consider what's canon (the manga):

      1. Using 150 and 120 milion for SSJ Goku and Freezer (from the absolutely disastrous Daizenshuu guides) is comparing two characters THAT NEVER EXISTED in the manga. I already made a post debunking why those numbers make absolutely no sense, contradict what's said in the manga and are simply impossible.

      2. The base state has a LIMIT that can't be surpassed by any regular means, and has to be reached as a condition to unlock the SSJ form. In other words, base Vegeta in the Bu saga is just as strong as base Vegeta in the Cell saga.

      3. The SSJ transformation IS NOT a fixed multiplier. The whole Cell saga training arc (in the RoSat) is used to explain that the power of the SSJ transformation depends on having exquisite control over the Ki. Since Vegeta never considered training his control over his Ki until after the Cell saga, his SSJ form would have been as strong as when he fought the androdis.

      4. Vegeta was much, much stronger than Goku in his base state. Goku fought with Freezer with the KKx10 activated since the beginning of the fight, that's why he performed much better than Vegeta, but the KK is not taken into acount when turning into a SSJ. I would say that in terms of approaching the limit of their base state, both Goku and Vegeta were more or less equal (in other words, near their limits).



      So, considering all those points, we have that a very injured Freezer managed to match SSJ Goku's power and only lost due to his stamina. If a Freezer that only had a fraction of his power managed to do that, it's impossible that SSJ Vegeta (who would have been stronger than SSJ Namek Goku but not by such a huge margin) could even defeat 50% Freezer.

      In other words, with a power scale that's like that:

      100% Freezer >> 50% Freezer >> SSJ Vegeta > Injured 100% Freezer >= SSJ Goku = SSJ Trunks > Injured 50% Freezer

      A 10% difference in favour of one of the fighters is already decisive in normal conditions, plus Freezer had considerably more resistance to damage than the Saiyans (which is another advantage he would have in his favour).


      Regards!
      Last edited by scouterSSJ; 17-03-2020, 11:58 AM.

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      • #4
        yes he could. freeza is stronger than ANY saiyan who did not reach at least ssj form (obviously freaks like broly dont count). but any saiyan who achieved ssj can beat frieza on freeza arc. (any lifeform with god ki is another story)
        technically, goku is a weak saiyan. he is strong only because he had proper training. vegeta has much higher potential. the problem is that saiyans arent really the greatest martial artists. they are high potential race, they culturally understand ki in the fighting aspect, but they are not great martial artists. goku had access to many high level teachers, and since childhood he received the mentality of a true martial artists. he trains with sparring and always wants to learn.

        and no, there is no such thing as multipliers in dragon ball. daizenshuu 7 said goku had 3 million PL and 150 million PL as a ssj. that does not mean there was a x50 multiplier. it just means his PL became 150 million regardless of his base. pssj is not x3 of normal form.
        the ONLY time toriyama said "multiplier" is with the kaioken technique.
        there is no power level information that is relevant post freeza arc in official guides.
        Last edited by highwaysaiyan; 18-04-2020, 10:19 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Vitalista View Post
          There was a world of difference between Base Vegeta and Goku in namek and turning into SSJ would make the gap bigger.
          at what point ? both got zenkai in namek.
          vegeta was in the lead until goku got the last zenkai on namek.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by highwaysaiyan View Post
            yes he could. freeza is stronger than ANY saiyan who did not reach at least ssj form (obviously freaks like broly dont count). but any saiyan who achieved ssj can beat frieza on freeza arc. (any lifeform with god ki is another story)
            technically, goku is a weak saiyan. he is strong only because he had proper training. vegeta has much higher potential. the problem is that saiyans arent really the greatest martial artists. they are high potential race, they culturally understand ki in the fighting aspect, but they are not great martial artists. goku had access to many high level teachers, and since childhood he received the mentality of a true martial artists. he trains with sparring and always wants to learn.

            and no, there is no such thing as multipliers in dragon ball. daizenshuu 7 said goku had 3 million PL and 150 million PL as a ssj. that does not mean there was a x50 multiplier. it just means his PL became 150 million regardless of his base. pssj is not x3 of normal form.
            the ONLY time toriyama said "multiplier" is with the kaioken technique.
            there is no power level information that is relevant post freeza arc in official guides.
            Do you think base saiyans surpassed frieza at any point before god ki?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by highwaysaiyan View Post

              at what point ? both got zenkai in namek.
              vegeta was in the lead until goku got the last zenkai on namek.
              When both of them fought Final form Frieza, So it would be after their last zenkai. Vegeta was helpless to do anything against Final Form Frieza but Goku was able to fight evenly with him, so that would mean a Super Saiyan Vegeta would be helpless against Super Saiyan Goku as the gap would be the same if not even bigger.

              And Frieza was somehow able to fight evenly against Goku for a while so like I said, if Frieza goes straight for the kill, I can't see Vegeta holding long enough. Then again, Vegeta is one tough bastard so maybe he can hold out.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Vitalista View Post

                When both of them fought Final form Frieza, So it would be after their last zenkai. Vegeta was helpless to do anything against Final Form Frieza but Goku was able to fight evenly with him, so that would mean a Super Saiyan Vegeta would be helpless against Super Saiyan Goku as the gap would be the same if not even bigger.

                And Frieza was somehow able to fight evenly against Goku for a while so like I said, if Frieza goes straight for the kill, I can't see Vegeta holding long enough. Then again, Vegeta is one tough bastard so maybe he can hold out.
                I totally agree with this post. Vegeta was so disadvantaged against final form frieza.so as a super saiyan his chances would only be somewhat better.

                @highawaysaiyan:also not any ssj could just beat frieza.this is shown in the manga in the trunks the lone warrior manga special where super saiyan trunks is sparring and just keeping up with base future gohan.so unless base future gohan is stronger than full power frieza, trunks at that time is not beating frieza

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                • #9
                  Their maximum powers would end up about equal, by my guess:

                  Goku: 3M
                  -- Super Saiyan: 150M
                  Freeza: 4M
                  -- 100% 120M
                  Vegeta: 2.4M
                  -- Super Saiyan: 120M




                  Gotta remember that even though there were some big power differences between Vegeta, Freeza, and Goku, Super Saiyan is a larger boost proportionately than what Freeza got by going 100%. So even though SS Vegeta would still be lagging behind SS Goku, he'd at least be on Freeza's level, only slightly weaker than him at best. Factor in how quickly Freeza's 100% wears him out, and you'd end up with an even-footing battle that eventually turns in Vegeta's favor. I'd say he'd win this something like 3 out of 5 times.
                  Last edited by Kaboom; 30-04-2020, 12:32 AM.

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                  • #10
                    SSJ Vegeta would be turned into a pasty mush by Freeza.

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