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On Raditz moving at Light speed.

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  • #16
    I don't know where it's stated Goku flew halfway across Namek in seconds. The Viz cover wasn't a correct translation, so there'd have to be something in the material itself to show that.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Solid Snake View Post
      You seriously using a gag scene to downplay the Piccolo and moon feat? Well, if you're accepting that, then you have to accept the fact Goku can interact with manga panels, which gives him toon force abilities.

      On to a serious note, Toriyama already confirmed that the moon is the same distance from the earth as our moon. So Piccolo destroying that with a casual Ki blast and Raditz dodged a super amplified one. But this is a reaction and combat speed feat.
      I don't see the problem with that? It's not like Toon force is a specific power, it's just a way to explain the fact that the characters are doing something very clearly impossible.

      Regarding that, may I ask why I have to take his word on this compared to the work? And unless I'm misremembering, Raditz ran, he did not like, lean or something, so this is travel speed in the most literal way (and it's not like Raditz is Thor throwing his hammer hard enough that he gets dragged along it either).

      Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Pyrus View Post
        I don't know where it's stated Goku flew halfway across Namek in seconds. The Viz cover wasn't a correct translation, so there'd have to be something in the material itself to show that.
        Where was it stated it wasn't a correct translation? From what I read Shueisha jointly owns them and therefore the Dragon Ball property. Or am I wrong?

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        • #19
          Well, you have poked "possible holes" into my interpretation of events, but these are not confirmed. Maybe Goku didnt outrun Tien's solar flare, but maybe he did, the scene shown was left vague enough that either scenario could be possible. Maybe The moon is closer in Dragon ball, maybe its not, there is also not enough evidence to say either way.

          Were arguing over vague information, because the creators and editors of Dragon Ball intentionally left these things vague enough to have flexibility in the future to change stuff.

          However, id like to believe that the guys who can blow up planets early on, can move light speed, simply because it takes far less energy to move light speed, than it does to obliterate an entire planet. Having vegeta be able to one shot planet Arlia with a casual finger beam, should require far, far more energy than light speed movement would. I know you could say that parts filler..but Roshi blowing up the moon with a 139 power level proves the same point, and he did that in the Manga I think.
          We are not however, everything has a clear and concise explanation without having to cite any outside sources even, if it's as vague as you say, surely at some point there is an issue with my explanation just the same as there is with yours no? You say you have a lack of evidence, but at that point, what is your evidence for them being light speed? Everything you've put forward has been quite frankly, a misrepresentation of the product at best.

          And that same panel I brought up with the anime also exists in the manga, so nothing really changes.

          Again, beyond me being able to say I want Piccolo to be blue so he is, and sticking with that, and us "agreeing to disagree," what is the difference here?

          Again, this seems to be just a way to say my argument has holes in it as well, without actually showing me the problems with my interpretation. You say it's vague, but it's not, it's clear visual information, simple context, and simple logic I've used here. At what point does my interpretation fail to satisfy?

          The energy comment is particularly ridiculous, as you require infinite energy to reach light speed (as your mass becomes infinite), getting the energy needed to blow up a planet is child's play in comparison. A mere 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy or around 55,000,000,000,000,000 megatons apparently, both of which are obviously much smaller than a literal infinite amount of energy.
          Last edited by Tinny; 08-04-2019, 08:26 PM.

          Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi

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          • Elite Saiyan
            Elite Saiyan commented
            Editing a comment
            In the anime at least, that quick battle Roshi and Krillin had in under a second didnt seem like a satirical scene, it was explained as a matter of fact. But maybe it would depend on the dub perhaps.

          • Tinny
            Tinny commented
            Editing a comment
            ...No it wasn't, and I know you'll know it was comedic if you've seen it. It was a parody of the ridiculous stuff that happens in martial arts manga, the entire tournament was comedic and funny in just about every fight, and this was no exception, as Jackie Chun (literally Roshi with a wig) amd Krillin do all sorts of ridiculous stuff.

            https://youtu.be/qdF_wiWlSHc my literal first search on Krillin vs Roshi and it even has (Funny) in the title.

            And not to mention you have the absurdity of stopping the fight scene to explain it, hell it's probably directly satirizing the crap Jojo's Bizarre Adventure pulls, having something completely ridiculous happen only to stop the fight and take time to explain it, in this case LITERALLY stopping the flight, both fighters stop to explain the chain of events that led to this, in an absurd farce.

            I mean spit and blowing noses in a martial arts match? No, it's clearly comedic in its intent (along with the rest of the tournament, the finale includes Roshi using the "sleepy boy technique" to hypnotize Goku into falling asleep) and honestly imo really damn funny what they're doing. The entire tournament was a parody of martial arts tournaments and fights in shonen, with the gimmicks or the main characters being ridiculous (A woman who uses her sexy body to embarrass a fighter off the stage, a wolfman who gets distracted by dog bones, a disgusting stinky man who's main form of attack is being so smelly that the fighter is knocked it by the stench, and Goku needs to point out Krillin has no nose before he can win, the list goes on).

            There is no version of this fight that plays this serious, and frankly it seems absurd to argue that it's "matter of fact" and not comedic.
            Last edited by Tinny; 12-04-2019, 02:16 AM. Reason: typos

          • Elite Saiyan
            Elite Saiyan commented
            Editing a comment
            Alright you got me there, just watched a few episodes of Dragon ball around that Tournament, it was pretty funny overall.

        • #20
          The only thing Raditz moves is a low level power level and a laugh.

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          • #21
            Pick any episode of the U6 Tournament arc and notice how completely normal (strength-wise) people in the audience like Bulma are able to watch the fighting just fine; that's despite the fact that waaaay back in the 23rd Budokai, Goku and Tenshinhan were fighting so fast that even Chi-Chi couldn't see them at all. And despite not being quite on the same level as the top-tiers of the tournament, she was still a respectable figher and considered "quite a master" by Roshi. So a regular human like Bulma can see Super-era Goku fighting Frost just fine, but a "master" like Chi-Chi has trouble following 23rd-Budokai era Goku and Tenshinhan along.

            Point is: you can give up on trying to make any sense of how fast these characters are moving. Even if Raditz had been written as faster than light, which I don't think he was, it wouldn't matter. It still would be totally incongruent with stuff we had seen before and after. There's zero consistency to it (which I don't even mind, tbh).

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            • #22
              Originally posted by Topographic Oceans View Post
              Pick any episode of the U6 Tournament arc and notice how completely normal (strength-wise) people in the audience like Bulma are able to watch the fighting just fine; that's despite the fact that waaaay back in the 23rd Budokai, Goku and Tenshinhan were fighting so fast that even Chi-Chi couldn't see them at all. And despite not being quite on the same level as the top-tiers of the tournament, she was still a respectable figher and considered "quite a master" by Roshi. So a regular human like Bulma can see Super-era Goku fighting Frost just fine, but a "master" like Chi-Chi has trouble following 23rd-Budokai era Goku and Tenshinhan along.

              Point is: you can give up on trying to make any sense of how fast these characters are moving. Even if Raditz had been written as faster than light, which I don't think he was, it wouldn't matter. It still would be totally incongruent with stuff we had seen before and after. There's zero consistency to it (which I don't even mind, tbh).
              That's true but this is only applies to just Dragon Ball's universe, in which case it's fine to accept but when a character is from Dragon Ball is pitted up against a non-Dragon Ball character stuff like that plays a big part in that, along with scaling. Otherwise, Blue Vegito is slower than Roshi and Krillin from tge 21st Tournament era.

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              • #23
                Originally posted by Solid Snake View Post

                That's true but this is only applies to just Dragon Ball's universe, in which case it's fine to accept but when a character is from Dragon Ball is pitted up against a non-Dragon Ball character stuff like that plays a big part in that, along with scaling. Otherwise, Blue Vegito is slower than Roshi and Krillin from tge 21st Tournament era.
                To be fair, dragon ball in dragon ball is the only thing that really matters to this. And hell if we wrote crossovers, we'd also be dismissing any feats they did in favor of an interesting story, that's where a lot of our anti-feats come from, it's a more interesting story or fight that way (I know I preferred the fights against Broly in the new Super movie massively to Goku vs Beerus despite the latter having 'better feats' probably because they actually were able to play around with their environment for interesting visuals and ironically a feeling of power).

                Writing with the intention of beating others in a versus battle is how you get suggsverse, and no one actually wants that.

                hell regarding Star Guardian, something I've been writing on this very site, I've toned them down a lot from the original idea so far, which included them being able to make a tree as tall as the universe, down to something a lot less absurdly OP because I couldn't actually come up with a good reason to involve that kind of scale yet. I've basically been nerfing my own characters to create a better story.
                Last edited by Tinny; 13-04-2019, 12:24 AM.

                Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi

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                • #24
                  Piccolo nonchalantly blowing up the moon, vegeta’s final flash reaching outer space in seconds, goku’s KHH against hit, and buu wiping out galaxies and being a universal threat. That’s enough evidence for me

                  the dyspo thing can be interpreted in multiple ways. It doesn’t have to retcon anything. He’s not necessarily the first to reach light speed given the evidence we have just like how he’s definitely not the first to reach the speed of sound despite toppo mentioning it

                  thats my take on all this
                  Last edited by Kingslayer96; 16-04-2019, 11:42 PM.

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