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17 and 18, not really androids?

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  • 17 and 18, not really androids?

    So is it fair to say that since "android" 17 and 18 are almost entirely biological in nature, they aren't really androids at all, but more like enhanced humans or super soldiers, think Captain America X100?

  • #2
    Technically they're "cyborgs," yeah, Earthlings that have been artificially enhanced with extra hardware.

    But "Android" as a translation for "Jinzoningen (Artificial Human)" is a good enough blanket term for them and all the others.

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    • #3
      i always wondered how come 18 could have a child if she is cyborg ? Unless she is like enchanted human android like cell who was 100 percently biological but artificial

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      • #4
        I generally prefer to use the term "cyborg" because it's more technically accurate to what they really are (humans with cybernetic enhancements). There's arguably more grey area with Gero because while he does have an organic brain, the rest of his body is mechanical. Would that make him cybernetic or an android which is basically a machine in human form? Also, there are some bona fide androids in the original in the form of #19 and #16.

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        • #5
          Yeah, I think the word android implies they are full robots. Cyborg is more correct because they have both human and cybernatic parts, like Merc Tao.

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          • #6
            Cyborgs is accurate, yes. I think they are referred to Androids simply because the vast majority of Gero's Android iterations were entirely mechanical. With the exception of 17, 18 and the process of turning himself into a cyborg. Cell as well, if you wish to count him. 17 and 18 were the most organic, and I believe their reproductive systems were left entirely intact. After all, 17 had his own biological son as was confirmed in Super. Their cybernetic enhancements were added onto their human frames and I don't think replaced a significant part of their actual humanity. tl;dr, I think they are largely more man than machine, though it may be something more like 50/50. Still, because of all the Androids being called, well, Androids, despite the fact that this descriptor doesn't quite accurately fit Nos. 17 and 18, they are still called Androids rather than the more appropriate "cyborgs".
            Brother! Your crusade IS OVER!!

            NO...!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Cyborgs is accurate, yes. I think they are referred to Androids simply because the vast majority of Gero's Android iterations were entirely mechanical. With the exception of 17, 18 and the process of turning himself into a cyborg. Cell as well, if you wish to count him. 17 and 18 were the most organic, and I believe their reproductive systems were left entirely intact. After all, 17 had his own biological son as was confirmed in Super. Their cybernetic enhancements were added onto their human frames and I don't think replaced a significant part of their actual humanity. tl;dr, I think they are largely more man than machine, though it may be something more like 50/50. Still, because of all the Androids being called, well, Androids, despite the fact that this descriptor doesn't quite accurately fit Nos. 17 and 18, they are still called Androids rather than the more appropriate "cyborgs".
              Good explanation. I have to wonder, what's your take on Gero/#20's classification? His brain is organic but it seems like the rest of his body is mechanical. Would he be classified as an android or cyborg? You did cite him as being a cyborg, but the vast majority of his composition is artificially mechanical. What do you think?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kaboom View Post
                Technically they're "cyborgs," yeah, Earthlings that have been artificially enhanced with extra hardware.

                But "Android" as a translation for "Jinzoningen (Artificial Human)" is a good enough blanket term for them and all the others.

                It's not a blanket term at all. The only thing "android" and "artificial human" refer to are full robots that just look like humans, not at all the same thing as cyborgs. If Nos.17 and 18 were intended to be called "cyborgs", they would have been called "Kaizoningen" (Remodeled Human)". The only reason Toriyama called them artificial humans was because he doesn't know what the term actually means. Read more here: http://lovelycyborg.com/cyband.php

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                • #9
                  Or it doesn't matter what they are called, they are still super strong artificially altered, looking like, humanoids. It didn't matter to the heroes whether they were androids or cyborgs, they still had to be dealt with.

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                  • #10
                    It does matter what they're called, because when they're called something that's incorrect, that creates confusion as to what they are. If they're not androids, then the story shouldn't call them androids, or anything similar.

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                    • #11
                      I still consider Gero technically a cyborg because of the brain being organic, but, you're right, otherwise he's entirely mechanical.
                      Brother! Your crusade IS OVER!!

                      NO...!!

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                      • #12
                        17 and 18 are indeed cyborgs. Just because the show calls them otherwise, doesn't change the meaning of the concept.


                        As for Gero, is he an android (cite: "(in science fiction) a robot with a human appearance.") or a cyborg (cite: "A cybernetic organism or “cyborg” in IT is defined as an organism with both biological and technological components.")?

                        Well, in my opinion he's clearly a cyborg, because I don't believe there's a certain number of biological organs that you must possess in order to benefit of "stepping up" from android to cyborg. Besides, the brain is the most important organ I must say, because it is what gives an organism feelings, ration, free will and whatnot.


                        Now my real curiosity is about Android 16. How can an organism entirely mechanical have feelings? Can those be somehow programmed/learned?

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