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Mantra Reactor Asura vs Dragon Ball Super Broly

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  • Mantra Reactor Asura vs Dragon Ball Super Broly

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    Welcome to dbzf's second extensive tale of the tape matchup, the first of which you can read here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/drag...en-t87507.html

    I'll be arguing on the behalf of Asura from Asura's Wrath and Tinny will be arguing on the behalf of Broly from Dragon Ball Super Broly.

    The first topic of discussion will be how these two compare against each other in the realm of combat skill, I'll let Tinny bring forth Broly's combat skill first.

  • #2
    Well, Broly's skill here, is pretty rudimentary, Vegeta does state that Broly must've learned how to use his power, but this is more in the realm in power and speed. With that said, Broly when he first fights has basically never fought anyone stronger than an ant relatively, going straight to Vegeta, who was already on his level in base. Despite never having fought anyone before, he's leanred quickly enough that he is able to keep up decently and force Vegeta to go into Super Saiyan. More interestingly is despite the power advantage, Vegeta does explicitly say that he's learning as he fights, to account for Broly still keeping up in base despite Vegeta going super saiyan. This does suggest a subtle change in how Dragon Ball handles skill vs power, mostly in that Broly in base can still keep up with Vegeta, through apparently skill alone, as he doesn't quite power to another form until Vegeta goes super saiyan god. If this is indeed the case, than at the least Broly has some stated ability to keep up with those more powerful than he.
    Last edited by Tinny; 13-04-2019, 12:34 AM.

    Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi


    • #3
      Asura is in a similar boat where as far as we can see he's relied mostly on his brute physicality to overpower his opponents. With a lot of his fights being won not by skill but by his at times animalistic fighting style where he's willing to use just about anything he can that he might still have. Grow several arms to overwhelm, no arms? Use your head or your legs. No arms and almost dead? Sprout mantra arms to do it for you. His best moment in regards to skill would have to be when he faces Augus and breaks his blade, catches the broken blade in his mouth and uses it to disembowel Augus. That's about as far as that goes however. If he's got limbs to spare, he will use them to his advantage to open up opportunities.

      I think that overall, Asura has an ever so slight advantage, I'm not sure what amount of learning as he goes will help Broly overcome a multiple limbs disadvantage aside from outright breaking them off.


      • #4
        That could very well be it (or to stretch, potentially copying the multiple arms technique the same way Tien did, copying even relatively strange moves such as that paralysis technique Goku pulled against Broly). Aside from that yeah, especially from what we've seen directly, Asura would mostly have an advantage in combat prowess due almost entirely to his arms. I will still say in the moves Broly has copied, he has a few things that can help, including melee ki blasts, and the aforementioned paralysis technique he performed in response to Goku. That said he only used the latter once in the fight, in immediate response to Goku doing that very thing, so that would not commonly happen I imagine.

        I doubt there's much more to say here so I'll just say we should move on to strength, you can start since I went first last time.

        Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi


        • #5
          When it comes to Asura strength is the name of the game. In a far weaker form, he was capable of stopping a continent sized finger from smashing him to pieces wielded by a being that was larger than the Earth itself. Not only stop it but then punch the same being to death.
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          I'm not entirely sure that Broly has anything to compete with anything on that scale, and if he did, be it from say energy attacks, Mantra Reactor Asura has the capability of absorbing that energy and becoming something far, far, far more dangerous than his normal self. Punching apart entire Galaxies worth of planets and stars and growing larger than a planet in the form of The Destructor.
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          • #6
            There's scaling, but I kind of utterly despise what scaling does to dragon ball in debates so for this I'm completely ignoring it and just taking the films on it's on level, in which case we've basically got nothing around that scale. And besides I've do anything to avoid having the exact same conversation over and over again. There is something I have a question on, but I'll save that for later.

            So Broly's power does showcase at multiple points, most every timel, his beams can easily pierce through mountains, he can easily throw you through them as well, as time goes on he can use a large energy blast and turn an arctic region into a volcanic hellscape. Even later on he's able to, with is punches and beams able to launch them into an alternate dimension (which is vague but still worth mentioning). He's able to easily plow through rock and mountain like there's basically nothing. (I will mention before he also does suprisingly well at a strength defeciency as well).

            Now regarding the Mantra reactor.... Normally I'd say Asura has a clear advantage, but a thought occurred to me. This fight is mostly between just Asura and Broly, and as I recall, the Mantra Reactor doesn't just get there t hrough Asura, but also everyone else's wrath. In other words, with the fight limited to him and Broly (and I think it's fair to say Broly is gonna get angry like he does in the movie), I think it's fair to argue Asura here is going to be much weaker than him at the height of his power. He's still holding very real problems, but I will also with Wyzen, if I recall correctly, he didn't quite just obliterate him did he? Wyzen in this case was just using one finger against him (rather foolishly in this case), and in addition as I recall, Wyzen was even called an idiot for using just his size. Again, I won't deny I might be stretching here, let me know if I'm misinterpreting something, however...

            Here's my thought. Asura didn't destroy him with pure strength, rather he seemed to burn him almost, causing him to explode, and regarding him growing larger and confusing size with power (and we do see the later gods are a lot stronger despite being much smaller), is it possible his increase in size actually fails to increase most of his stat such a way that the others more clearly use? As I recall, his mentor is clearly much stronger, and his feats involve going through the moon in comparison (which is huge dont' get me wrong, but not quite the same deal as Wyzen). So we have a lot of factors, Wyzen is using little of his strength, Asura isn't so much destroy his finger as heating it up until it basically burns Wyzen (I suppose using friction and such in this case).
            Last edited by Tinny; 13-04-2019, 02:42 AM.

            Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi


            • #7
              Theoretically yes, however the problem with that is even when humans were by and large fine and dandy with their situation in being sacrificed for a greater cause, Asura was still exceptionally capable of dealing with the seven deities. If Wyzen is to be believed, Asura wasn't seen as something that even exists. He had been more or less erased from history and existence (thousands of years of absence would do that.) As a baseline his strength and capability against Wyzen is probably what Broly is dealing with as a default. And in regards to your questioning of Wyzen's actual weight.

              While it is possible that his weight didn't completely correlate with the size increase, there is clearly some correlation given Wyzen's full weight in his second form only caused a giant crater, while his finger in this form turns the entire area from a sandy desert into a volcanic wasteland. As for his other stats, it does seem to be a failure to increase his other stats, otherwise he wouldn't be so slow in his movement (though given his size he likely didn't need speed given Asura surely wasn't going to escape the finger poke of doom.)

              Both the finger and Broly's explosion seem to have a similar level of effect so maybe it's on the same level? In the beginning of the game the large transports the gohma use are the size of mountains (atleast according to the in-game guide's size description) and Asura punches them apart easily enough.

              Also in regards to Broly's impressive ki explosion capability, while it is impressive... Asura can mimick a similar effect in a weaker state by simple stomping

              Last edited by Goddess Ultimecia; 13-04-2019, 03:15 AM.


              • #8
                Ok. I know I'm supposed to be impressed by the stomp because it's impressive but.



                I don't think there's much more to say on Wyzen admittedly after this, so I'll simply move to the next statements.

                Ok with that out of the way. At least in terms of destruction, Broly does have a lot of power in that area, most mountain are kilometers long, and the Gohma Glider that fell in is at the largest 120 meters.

                Casual blasts like this. I wouldn't say they're quite equal in terms of Asura's stomp vs Broly's mouth blast for example.

                And finally, and granted this is a rather vague feat overall, but if I recall correclt,y Asura does actually do a similar feat at some point.

                Regarding these two feats, they apparently "The boundary of the dimension could not withstand the energy released by them and got torn apart" in the light novel based on the movie. Granted that's an adaptation, but as I recall, Asura did something similar right? Do correct me if I'm stretching on this, but I do think this is quite a similar feat that Asura would later accomplish with his own strength. Though these are rather vague feats admittedly.

                Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi


                • #9
                  In regards to the stomp, it's not even necessarily his best feat given he destroyed Gohma Carriers in his base state way at the beginning of the game which are 800 km in length and 200 km in full girth.

                  Yes, Asura does have a feat that matches dimension shattering (arguably more impressive given it's a one sided thing.) In the form of Asura shattering Naraka with pure brute strength.


                  Though yeah as you say, dimension shattering is vague as all hell since we can argue back and forth about the really really real size of the dimensions but that gets us nowhere. They're probably on a similar level I'd say in regards to strength, agreed?

                  I think the next area would probably be durability? I'd like to see what Broly has on that front before I get to Asura's.


                  • #10
                    Well he's taken blasts that chip mountain pretty good, and took getting punched through a ton of mountains relatively well (in wrath form he gets punted through a mountain, and creates a huge hole flying through it), and in base no less. He'd been slamed into the ground hard enough to create earthquakes large enough to cause the rock the ship is on to almost fall over (they lift the ship off after this because of the danger). He's also simply grabbed a melee blast that Super Saiyan God Goku was gonna launch at him and had it blow up in his hand. He also gets knocked into a pool of lava (magma?) and basically doesn't even notice it while fighting Blue Goku. he also in general has remarkably good stamina against those stronger than him, shown against... Kind of Goku and Vegeta, at multiple times he's utterly outmatched but still able to keep up, relativeley at any rate. As a super saiyan he can also take being double teamed by Goku and Vegeta as well. He gets kicked into the ground hard that it displaces an icnredible amount of rock, enough that a shot looking at at the whole thing basically shows Gogeta as an ant, before getting barraged with ki blast after ki blast from said Gogeta. He also matched punches with Gogeta in an event that caused the grown beneath them to crack and lava to erupt forth, took a huge explosion, and Gogeta decided the best way to beat him down was to use an long enormous Kamehameha (though this is implied that it would have killed him if it had hit).

                    That's about where we are in terms of hits Broly has taken.

                    Signature and Avatar by NinjaSushi


                    • #11
                      Starting from his weakest, Asura is able to take a crapton of weight being forced on him. Like against Wyzen.

                      Another one is when he actually is taking hits from a 800 km carrier ship and surviving which I would say is probably similar to a mountain.

                      At his absolute weakest, magma can kill Asura, though in these cases it's usually after being beaten down to a pulp. The only time he died to magma was when after he killed Wyzen, Yasha came around to finish the job. Beating Asura up more despite Asura running on empty. Other times he's getting into the thick of it with Gohma that naturally spew magma and hit him on the constant with it and he's fine.

                      Despite all the damage that happened from Wyzen, he still did survive the finger poke of doom, I think that does count for something for his durability.

                      Atmospheric Re-Entry has claimed his life in the past though, that was after being beaten to near death again, past that point the effect of that hasn't damaged him.

                      He manages to block and divert Augus' blade which ends up changing the entire way the moon is shaped.

                      I think as far as that goes however. Without any form given to him by absolute rage or extra mantra, this is the extent of his durability.