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Broly movie vs ToP and beerus

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  • Broly movie vs ToP and beerus

    Correct me if I’m wrong but this is how I see things. Jiren is in fact stronger than Beerus even before he charged up. He’s stronger than quitela, who is comparable to Beerus, and quitela was shocked to see how strong jiren was when he powered up. So Jiren towards the end of the ToP and MUI goku are considerably above Beerus.

    Broly, is only said to be “probably even stronger than Beerus” by goku. So we have jiren who is much stronger than Beerus and broly is probably stronger than beerus. Based on that, I’d bet on jiren

    so I have MUI goku>Jiren>broly>=Beerus. Idk where gogeta would be but yeah

    I can’t find where it is and idk how valuable the source is but wasn’t there a statement in some promo or something for the movie saying that goku is approaching god of destruction or beerus’s level? If that’s true, then that means gogeta must be way stronger than Beerus but wasn’t able to put broly down very easily. So that would mean broly and gogeta are probably well above jiren and MUI goku were

    so knowing that, I have gogeta>broly>>>MUI goku and Jiren>beerus

    What do you guys make of all this?

  • #2
    Here's the promo you were talking about
    Spoiler Alert!

    Click image for larger version

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    I'd say Broly is probably stronger than UI Goku and Jiren.
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      No this is what I was talking about

      Herms translated an interview with the director of Broly who says

      ”On the usual suspects: Goku is already pretty close to being a god, and Vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. This time Freeza shows particular growth. He wants to be on top, but is pondering how he can with Beerus and co. around. Is his ambition to defeat the Omni-King?!”

      https://comicbook.com/anime/2018/08/...els-confirmed/

      What do you make of this?

      Comment


      • #4
        Based solely on that, UI Goku is weaker than Beerus. Goku and Vegeta are equal excluding UI so if Goku is "pretty close to a GoD" and Vegeta is desperately trying to catch up to him, it can't be referring to Blue.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kingslayer96 View Post
          Correct me if I’m wrong but this is how I see things. Jiren is in fact stronger than Beerus even before he charged up. He’s stronger than quitela, who is comparable to Beerus, and quitela was shocked to see how strong jiren was when he powered up. So Jiren towards the end of the ToP and MUI goku are considerably above Beerus.

          Broly, is only said to be “probably even stronger than Beerus” by goku. So we have jiren who is much stronger than Beerus and broly is probably stronger than beerus. Based on that, I’d bet on jiren

          so I have MUI goku>Jiren>broly>=Beerus. Idk where gogeta would be but yeah

          I can’t find where it is and idk how valuable the source is but wasn’t there a statement in some promo or something for the movie saying that goku is approaching god of destruction or beerus’s level? If that’s true, then that means gogeta must be way stronger than Beerus but wasn’t able to put broly down very easily. So that would mean broly and gogeta are probably well above jiren and MUI goku were

          so knowing that, I have gogeta>broly>>>MUI goku and Jiren>beerus

          What do you guys make of all this?
          Again what makes you think jiren even after powered up is stronger than beerus. It was never ever backed up in super

          Comment


          • #6
            It is backed up. I explained it in the first paragraph. Jiren is stronger than Beerus and so is MUI goku.

            Broly is not stronger than Jiren imo. He’s only said to probably be stronger than Beerus. Jiren is definitely much stronger than beerus. So I would bet on Jiren

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            • #7
              The manga and anime differ on how powerful Jiren supposedly is.

              The anime—coupled with the supplementary outside material—contains a lot more implication of Jiren being God of Destruction level, undoubtedly. Jiren's stated to be more powerful than Belmod, who Whis said was the one that beat Beerus; Beerus said it was just an arm wrestling match, so you decide whether that holds up or not. When Jiren was combating the Genki-Dama, Whis assumed he was the one that was stronger than his God of Destruction, and East Kaioshin fearfully said Jiren was stronger than anyone they'd faced before, which would logically include Merged Zamasu. Merged Zamasu was basically stated to be God of Destruction level by Vegeta, Gowasu, and East Kaioshin. That would put Jiren on par with the Gods of Destruction just by scaling. Jiren's limit broken power was stated by Piccolo to be a lot more powerful than his regular level. You end up with a chain like this:

              MUI Goku (full power) > Jiren (limits broken) > MUI Goku > Jiren > Merged Zamasu > Beerus

              Outside material would seem to corroborate this as the preview for episode #129 claimed Jiren was the strongest opponent they ever faced, putting him above Merged Zamasu. An episode guide from a magazine (don't know which one) included a snippet of Beerus supposedly claiming (or more like questioning) if incomplete Ultra Instinct Goku had surpassed him, but since it didn't happen in the episode, it can be understandably dismissed. Another hype page states MUI Goku definitively surpassed the Gods of Destruction. Toei's website claimed Jiren was possibly at the God of Destruction level, though not above, and that was just regular Jiren.

              The biggest hole in that is East Kaioshin clamoring about Merged Zamasu's power being beyond their understanding and so amazing, but acting scared and shocked that Jiren is above a God of Destruction, and that that specific accomplishment is what made him stronger than anyone before. It retcons Zamasu (and Vegetto by extension) to below Beerus, which at this point is to be expected, but still something to look at.

              Jiren in the manga receives no praise about being stronger than a God of Destruction beyond Belmod, and Belmod isn't the one to have beaten Beerus in an arm wrestling match there; that was explicitly Quitela. The whole rumor Whis talked about in the anime doesn't apply in the manga. No statements or feats indicate UI/MUI Goku and/or Jiren surpassed the Gods of Destruction. There is no comparison made between the two parties. The most you would find is the gods being impressed Goku achieved Ultra Instinct, but the context is that he's a mortal and thus shouldn't even come close to accomplishing such a thing.

              There's a piece of the large wall display Viz put up for Dragon Tour 2018 that states Jiren is said to have power surpassing all the Gods of Destruction. That sounds like confirmation, but the wording appears more like hearsay and not a conclusive declaration. The hearsay in this case wouldn't make sense either since that rumor was never uttered or alluded to in the manga, so it looks like things got crossed between mediums.

              The most definitive statement for Broly would be the Jump page hyping the movie, wherein he is claimed to be the strongest foe with power questionably above a God of Destruction. In the movie, Goku only proposed the possibility of Broly surpassing Beerus, but didn't come to a definite conclusion. The fact that the page questioned if Broly had power stronger than a God of Destruction would retcon things in and of itself.

              If you stripped away everything except the anime, manga, and movie, you would likely have anime Jiren stronger than Broly and Broly stronger than manga Jiren.
              Last edited by Pyrus; 02-02-2019, 08:07 PM.

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              • #8
                Thanks for all that.

                I was able to find where those character bios come from. The ones that say jiren “exceeds the power of the gods of destruction”

                https://aminoapps.com/c/dragonballz/...qE3XQeaXMKeELX

                What do you think?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wish I could inspect the whole thing. It appears to be going over the manga's continuity, so the Jiren statement would be a first and like I mentioned, odd in how it came about. And then there's trying to source the thing, as in who wrote all of that. If it's just a Toyark display with no backing from Toei, Toriyama, Toyotaro and company, it may be questionable. I'll have to keep looking, but for now, I'll personally consider it unverified; others may disagree.

                  EDIT: I found the whole thing. I'll update in a bit after looking over it. Thank god for Kanzenshuu.

                  EDIT EDIT: After looking at it, it does look official. It has Bird Studio/Shueisha branding on the bottom. The only question I have now is whether Viz correctly translated the Jiren bit as there's been a mishap of similarity before.
                  Last edited by Pyrus; 02-02-2019, 07:02 AM.

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                  • #10
                    How much does that actually tell us if it says bird studio/shueisha on it? Video game titles have the same don’t they?

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                    • #11
                      Yes, but it confirms it wasn't done by some random artist paid by the expo(s) that has little to no understanding of the actual show. It has some validity at the very least. I don't know what to consider it as, though. It's not a guidebook, game, or magazine. It's just a big display with guidebook-like blurbs on it.

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                      • #12
                        I'm still not convinced at all that Jiren is more powerful than Beerus. Beerus would kill him with the Hakai lol.

                        Imo
                        Beerus > Jiren > Broly

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                        • #13


                          "The strongest enemy ever invades Earth."



                          "I've never seen such an amazing opponent... S-so strong! Beaten up by the strongest ever, Broly."

                          And then more from this post: https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/...ing/#m40539314

                          I didn't realize how much actually hyped up Broly. Now he has more secondary source material than Jiren did.

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                          • #14
                            Eh with these sources it's safe to assume that Broly is stronger than Beerus. Goku does say that Broly is "perhaps" stronger than Beerus. As for Jiren, he's been hyped to be stronger than Beerus too so it comes down to Jiren vs Broly, at which point, I'd give it to Broly.

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                            • #15
                              From watching the movie itself alone, Broly does not seem stronger than Jiren at all, he's stated to be "possibly" stronger than Beerus whereas Jiren is stted to be beyond the gods multiple times. Plus Broly is an amateur, he has little experience and is basically a brawler, can he even sense ki? The movie made me think Broly was possibly stronger than Beerus in raw power but in a fight Beerus would still smack him around because of his much greater skill. Heck blue Gogeta doesn't really need to be beyond Broly in raw power, Broly was taking hits from Gogeta pretty well and even shook off the Soul Punisher, Gogeta could still appear to be having an easy time because he's the combination of two of the greatest fighters in the multiverse and Broly is an enraged brawler. I mean Freeza can survive an hour against Broly who's enraged and not lose his golden form right? I realise this is just a gag but people happily use base Gotenks' scenes as power indicators rather than gag.
                              Last edited by superperfectnerd; 09-02-2019, 02:46 AM.

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