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will goku ever surpass beerus ?

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  • will goku ever surpass beerus ?

    mui goku was apparently the peak of goku, whis said himself that it was too much for his body. and mui goku is still weaker than ui beerus.
    so will that dream of defeating beerus ever happen (at least without becoming a full-fledged GoD) ?

  • #2
    SSBE Vegeta is stated to be equal to SSB Kaioken Goku and he overcame a God of Destruction. This result was foreshadowed ever since the U6 arc where Goku states that he was developing the SSB Kaioken specifically to overcome Beerus.

    He refined it and pushed it's multiplier to 20x and the end result is seen through Vegeta whom was able to match the full power of a God of Destruction and barely overcome it.

    UI Goku far surpasses the God of Destruction realm.

    UI>Jiren>SSB Kaiokenx20/SSBE<=>God of Destruction>SSB
    Last edited by supersaiyangodgogeta; 08-01-2019, 01:05 AM.

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    • #3
      beerus is by far the strongest god of destruction. there are 2 things that are the same among all gods of destruction (except for job and hierarchy), they are immortal (or at least age extremely slowly) and have hakai.
      their power is different, depending on race, age, experience and talent.
      the only ones who can defeat beerus in the known multiverse are the angels and zeno. id admit i stopped reading super manga during the tournament of power but everything up to that point proves my claims. and the manga gives us alot more feats of strength that can be considered canon than the show.


      jiren is stronger than most gods of destruction, but still weaker than beerus and (probably) quitela.
      Last edited by highwaysaiyan; 08-01-2019, 11:21 AM.

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      • #4
        I'm confused. Was it admitted somewhere that Jiren and, by extension, MUI Goku are weaker than Beerus? I was under the impression that the consensus held Jiren and MUI Goku up to a higher standard of power than Beerus.

        In regards to the original question, if Toriyama ever decides to shift gears from the Hakaishin to angels being the new benchmark then I could see Goku surpassing Beerus.

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        • #5
          He already surpassed Beerus with Ultra Instinct.
          https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/60/d4/3760d41dbd9c13304e1bf302b7c34eac.png

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          • #6
            The first characters I considered surpassed Beerus are, in order:

            Merged Zamasu
            Vegito Blue
            Jiren
            MUI Goku
            Legendary Super Saiyan Broly
            Gogeta Blue

            I don't believe no one else really surpassed him to be honest.
            ​​​​​
            ​​​

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            • #7
              im sorry, but when UI beerus cant even be touched by 11 gods of destruction, i think it should tell us something.

              and people still tend to ignore the sentence "a warrior that is stronger than a god of destruction" basically, jiren > HIS god of destruction. but belmod is behind beerus and others in terms of power.
              when the show doesnt give us the whole story, we go to the manga and its clear there.

              but lets look it logically.
              beerus 50% >>> goku 50%. that we know.
              beerus 100% >>> goku 100%. that we know.
              beerus 100% UI >>> goku 100% UI. make sense.
              beerus 100% UI > goku 100% MUI. the level of stomp is unknown, but according to logic, beerus is still stronger.

              goku 100% MUI > jiren 100%.
              beerus > jiren.

              its math.

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              • #8
                Ultra Instinct Goku and full power Jiren aren't above Beerus. I don't care about the anime's clustered jabronism, but the manga doesn't support Jiren being stronger.

                The first time Jiren fought seriously was against Ultra Instinct Goku (second usage after #17 self-destructed).

                Ch. 41, pg. 1.1
                Whis: “At last, Jiren is taking this seriously.”
                Krillin: “This is the first time we’re seeing an aura around him!!”


                Goku was whooping Jiren, then Jiren powered up again and managed to fight on more even ground as it went on.

                Ch. 41, pg. 9.5
                Context:
                Jiren powering up
                Krillin: “Jiren’s chi is spiking again!!”

                Ch. 41, pg. 16.4
                Context:
                as Jiren and Goku battle
                Gohan: “So intense--the entire arena’s shaking!”


                They became so even it came down to a battle of stamina.

                Ch. 41, pg. 33.1-2
                Whis: “This is now a battle of attrition.”
                Beerus: “Will Jiren run outta stamina first? Or will Goku’s Ultra Instinct wear off…?”


                The biggest giveaway is that nobody could track their battle except for the gods (and angels obviously).

                Ch. 41, pg. 34.2-3
                Context:
                Jiren and Goku continue their battle
                Krillin: “What? They disappeared?!”
                Beerus: “Your eyes can’t keep up with their speed.”
                Gohan: “I’ve lost them too!”
                Piccolo: “W-which one is winning?!”


                Jiren was stronger than Belmod, but there's no implication Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus was implied to be the strongest God of Destruction, with arguably Quitela being on his coattails. So yeah, I have no reason to think Goku has surpassed Beerus yet.

                Beerus >= Quitela ~ Champa > other Gods > UI Goku >= Jiren > Belmod

                I don't know what the gap is between them, factoring in Ultra Instinct, but I do know Beerus is still on top.

                Edit: Forgot Champa was supposed to be comparable to Beerus.
                Edit-edit: You know what? Forget it. I'll figure out the hierarchy some other time.
                Last edited by Pyrus; 12-01-2019, 09:45 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by highwaysaiyan View Post
                  beerus is by far the strongest god of destruction. there are 2 things that are the same among all gods of destruction (except for job and hierarchy), they are immortal (or at least age extremely slowly) and have hakai.
                  their power is different, depending on race, age, experience and talent.
                  the only ones who can defeat beerus in the known multiverse are the angels and zeno. id admit i stopped reading super manga during the tournament of power but everything up to that point proves my claims. and the manga gives us alot more feats of strength that can be considered canon than the show.


                  jiren is stronger than most gods of destruction, but still weaker than beerus and (probably) quitela.
                  No he isn't "by far" the strongest. His power isn't anything special among the Gods of Destruction. He's explicitly stated to be comparable to Champa and Champa wasn't treated differently than any other God. He has an incomplete UI that didn't amount to much other than dodging the other Gods for a brief period of time and it didn't help him from being beaten up like any of the other Gods. His performance against the other Gods was due to strategy. He didn't brute force his way past them. There are small differences among the Gods of Destruction at most.

                  We already saw how God of Destruction power holds up in the story

                  UI>Jiren>SSB Kaiokenx20/SSBE<=>God of Destruction>SSB

                  Vegeta barely overcoming a God of Destruction despite being only equal to SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku is something foreshadowed way back in the U6 arc when when Goku first unveiled SSB Kaioken which he stated was specifically developed to overcome Beerus. After refining it and increasing it's multiplier to it's limits, the results are barely overcoming a God of Destruction. Jiren is far above this power and UI is far above Jiren before he breaks his limits.
                  Last edited by supersaiyangodgogeta; 09-01-2019, 06:15 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by supersaiyangodgogeta View Post

                    No he isn't "by far" the strongest. His power isn't anything special among the Gods of Destruction. He's explicitly stated to be comparable to Champa and Champa wasn't treated differently than any other God. He has an incomplete UI that didn't amount to much other than dodging the other Gods for a brief period of time and it didn't help him from being beaten up like any of the other Gods. His performance against the other Gods was due to strategy. He didn't brute force his way past them. There are small differences among the Gods of Destruction at most.

                    We already saw how God of Destruction power holds up in the story

                    UI>Jiren>SSB Kaiokenx20/SSBE<=>God of Destruction>SSB

                    Vegeta barely overcoming a God of Destruction despite being only equal to SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku is something foreshadowed way back in the U6 arc when when Goku first unveiled SSB Kaioken which he stated was specifically developed to overcome Beerus. After refining it and increasing it's multiplier to it's limits, the results are barely overcoming a God of Destruction. Jiren is far above this power and UI is far above Jiren before he breaks his limits.
                    they all have UI. his dodging and speed wasnt due to strategy, it was due to simply being superior.
                    and they have it due to thousands of years of training under an angel (best martial artists in the known pantheon). not because of their title.
                    toppo isnt like the rest of the gods. he just got his powers during a battle. no real experience or training like the rest. its like saying ssj vs frieza is as strong as a mastered ssj vs cell. i dont even know why you bring him to the discussion...

                    UI>Jiren>SSB Kaiokenx20/SSBE<=>God of Destruction>SSB ?
                    i dont know how you got that.
                    Last edited by highwaysaiyan; 09-01-2019, 10:29 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by highwaysaiyan View Post

                      they all have UI. his dodging and speed wasnt due to strategy, it was due to simply being superior.
                      and they have it due to thousands of years of training under an angel (best martial artists in the known pantheon). not because of their title.
                      toppo isnt like the rest of the gods. he just got his powers during a battle. no real experience or training like the rest. its like saying ssj vs frieza is as strong as a mastered ssj vs cell. i dont even know why you bring him to the discussion...

                      UI>Jiren>SSB Kaiokenx20/SSBE<=>God of Destruction>SSB ?
                      i dont know how you got that.
                      Nothing implies that the other Gods have UI and Beerus' UI wore off in seconds. After that he relied on strategy to get the upper hand. And at the end he's beat up no differently than any other God. He's stated and shown to be comparable to Champa in strength, so any notion that involves Beerus being far superior to any of the other Gods in strength already goes out the window. Beerus' power among the other Gods isn't anything special. The strength differences are paper thin.

                      Toppo is stated to be a fully fledged God no different than the other 12. SSBE Vegeta defeated him. SSBE Vegeta is SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku's officially stated equal. That level of power ultimately being able to match a God of Destruction was foreshadowed back in the U6 arc. Jiren is stated to surpass the God of Destruction realm which includes Beerus since he's a God of Destruction and UI Goku massively surpasses that. The narrative is extremely straightforward. No clue how anyone could ever come to the conclusion that UI Goku and Jiren are weaker than Beerus. The idea of him being anywhere near the pair is laughable.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by supersaiyangodgogeta View Post
                        Jiren is stated to surpass the God of Destruction realm which includes Beerus since he's a God of Destruction and UI Goku massively surpasses that.
                        jiren was NEVER mentioned to surpass the GoD realm. he surpassed A god of destruction, which at the time was believed to be beerus but later we discovered it was acually belmod (his god of destruction).

                        the GoD title doesnt magically make a person extremely uber powerful. GoD is a title which carries with it a responsibility, an angel as a guide and teacher and hakai(and the prestige of course), but the power they have is a power achieved by training, we know this because its the rules of dragon balls AND it was stated that champa is weaker than beerus because he is lazy which can tell us their power also fluctuate depending on their training or lack of.
                        Last edited by highwaysaiyan; 11-01-2019, 07:55 PM.

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