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Opinions on gun control the U.S?
Topic Started: Aug 18 2016, 03:29 PM (3,712 Views)
Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Well, considering there's on average 750,000 aggravated assaults and (reported) 70,000 rapes of women a year in the U.S, I think you're a little too naive on violence in the country. The U.S may have lower violent crime rates (not raw numbers, badum tiss) than Germany or Britain, but that doesn't mean you're safer here than you are there. Many of those assaults and and rapes were unprovoked.
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Jar-Jar Binks
Sep 1 2016, 07:31 PM
Well, considering there's on average 750,000 aggravated assaults and (reported) 70,000 rapes of women a year in the U.S, I think you're a little too naive on violence in the country. The U.S may have lower violent crime rates (not raw numbers, badum tiss) than Germany or Britain, but that doesn't mean you're safer here than you are there. Many of those assaults and and rapes were unprovoked.
You're missing my point. My main point was about animals, but my point about humans wasn't that there aren't a lot of assaults in the world, but that (in the case of an assault or rape) owning a gun doesn't mean you're saved. For one, most people don't carry their guns around with them everywhere they go, and most rapes and assaults happen outside of a person's home. Secondly, most attackers won't approach you directly, so a gun wouldn't even come in handy.
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Tsar
 
if you do things right and by the book, it's very humane way of obtaining food and animal hides.
The most humane way of killing imaginable is still inhumane when you don't need to kill, but simply want to.
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As far as surviving goes, you know what I meant. You know I wasn't implying that you eat the attacking human.

You can continue posturing but that's all it is.
No, it seemed you were trying to say that my lack of desire to contribute to the suffering of animals when I don't need to would in some way effect my ability to survive against them. Or survive in general.

If it's against them, I pointed out that most people don't contribute to the cruelty and abuse of people, and this doesn't effect their ability to survive against other people. If you're attacked by an animal, it's your physical and mental abilities that are going to help you survive, not your desire to eat them. If it's about food in general, I pointed out that eating them is not necessary for survival unless there's no other food source available, and that taking from those other sources would increase your life span - thus improving your survival.

I really don't want to harp on about whether people should or shouldn't eat animals, but since it's being used as a way to condone hunting, it is, unfortunately, necessary.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Well, humans are a part of the animal kingdom. Owning a gun doesn't mean you're saved, owning a gun means you have the ability to save yourself. There's no knowable number of how many people carry a gun around with them in the U.S, because there are states where you do not need a permit to carry a gun at all and there's states where you do not need a permit to carry a gun openly. Estimates range from anywhere between 20 million U.S citizens and 80 million law abiding us citizens carry their firearms on their possession or in their vehicles. I can't say for certain which number is closer to the truth. There's also criminals who carry guns, illegally because well, they're criminals.

You're right in that rapes and assaults don't normally occur at your own home, so why would anyone leave their guns at home when they go out? Situational awareness is key to survival even if you're not carrying a firearm.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Lazuli
Sep 1 2016, 07:37 PM
Tsar
 
if you do things right and by the book, it's very humane way of obtaining food and animal hides.
The most humane way of killing imaginable is still inhumane when you don't need to kill, but simply want to.
Quote:
 
As far as surviving goes, you know what I meant. You know I wasn't implying that you eat the attacking human.

You can continue posturing but that's all it is.
No, it seemed you were trying to say that my lack of desire to contribute to the suffering of animals when I don't need to would in some way effect my ability to survive against them. Or survive in general.

If it's against them, I pointed out that most people don't contribute to the cruelty and abuse of people, and this doesn't effect their ability to survive against other people. If you're attacked by an animal, it's your physical and mental abilities that are going to help you survive, not your desire to eat them. If it's about food in general, I pointed out that eating them is not necessary for survival unless there's no other food source available, and that taking from those other sources would increase your life span - thus improving your survival.

I really don't want to harp on about whether people should or shouldn't eat animals, but since it's being used as a way to condone hunting, it is, unfortunately, necessary.
So you're suggesting we eat plants instead of hunting or eating animals for food, then? Aren't plants living organisms too? Trees and plants feel suffering and pain as well. What is there to eat that doesn't feel pain and suffering? Soylent green isn't a thing.
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Quote:
 
Trees and plants feel suffering and pain as well.

Proof it.

Also we don't eat trees.
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Jar-Jar Binks
Sep 1 2016, 07:45 PM
Trees and plants feel suffering and pain as well.
Prove it.

Ah, ninja'd.
Edited by Sandy Shore, Sep 1 2016, 07:48 PM.
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First google result for the lulz:

"As far as I know no reputable study has ever shown that plants can "feel pain". They lack the nervous system and brain necessary for this to happen. A plant can respond to stimuli, for example by turning towards the light or closing over a fly, but that is not the same thing."
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

When you guys use statistics on relations between gun control and shootings, do you consider the nature of the people living in said countries?

As for my beliefs, i wish guns were never made in the first place so that this wouldn't even need discussion.
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Even if we were to discover that, amazingly, fruits and vegetables suffer—despite having no nerve endings, a central nervous system or brain to register any sort of pain or emotion—then the more moral choice would be to eat whatever suffers the least. The point being to reduce suffering as much as is possible - that is, wherever it's unnecessary.

Not only would you have to prove they can feel any sort of suffering at all—and you can't—you would have to prove they can suffer as much as chickens before eating them would be equivalent in cruelty.
Edited by Sandy Shore, Sep 1 2016, 07:52 PM.
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Lazuli
Sep 1 2016, 07:51 PM
Even if we were to discover that, amazingly, fruits and vegetables suffer—despite having no nerve endings, a central nervous system or brain to register any sort of pain or emotion—then the more moral choice would be to eat whatever suffers the least. The point being to reduce suffering as much as is possible - that is, wherever it's unnecessary.

Not only would you have to prove they can feel any sort of suffering at all—and you can't—you would have to prove they can suffer as much as chickens before eating them would be equivalent in cruelty.
Also, his argument for plants feeling suffering is flawed b/c most fruits and vegetables are merely picked from plants, which then grow more fruits and vegetables.

Unless fruits can actually feel pain like they do in those comedy Youtube videos.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Here's the link you just quoted, it's literally peoples opinions.

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

Yes, they don't feel pain like we do, but they react to damage to their roots and plant bodies like any human would react to damage to their limbs or internal organs. Other animals don't experience pain like humans do either because they aren't sentient.
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Jar-Jar Binks
Sep 1 2016, 07:55 PM
Here's the link you just quoted, it's literally peoples opinions.

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

Yes, they don't feel pain like we do, but they react to damage to their roots and plant bodies like any human would react to damage to their limbs or internal organs. Other animals don't experience pain like humans do either because they aren't sentient.
I never said it was a valid source. I said it was the first result on google.

Plants don't feel pain. How about you show me a scientific source that says that they do?

proof that animals aren't sentient.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

I meant sapient, not sentient.
Edited by Helvius Pertinax Augustus, Sep 1 2016, 07:59 PM.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Shining Light
Sep 1 2016, 07:51 PM
When you guys use statistics on relations between gun control and shootings, do you consider the nature of the people living in said countries?

No, they don't need to be considered because this is about the U.S.
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