Realistic Proportions for Disney Princesses

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Realistic Proportions for Disney Princesses
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 15 2016, 11:43 AM (3,218 Views)
*Copy_Ninja*	Aug 17 2016, 01:28 PM Post #16
*Novacane for the pain* Posts: 8,033 Group: Guardian Member #6,499 Joined: July 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter (2011) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Monster, One Piece, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter X Hunter, Death Note, SnK	Clearin Aug 17 2016, 12:42 PM I don't see cartoon characters as a representation of me. They're their own unique character. Cartoon characters don't "represent" you just because you happen to share a trait with them, they represent themself. It's completely arbitrary what counts in the first place. Why does sexual orientation, gender or skin colour make a cartoon character represent you? What about hair colour? Does every brown haired character represent every brown haired person? Shouldn't EVERY human character be a representation of you because you're a human too? I don't give a s* what colour, sexual orientation, gender, size or anything else a character is, I just care about their character. The entire thing just bugs me. The issue with it is this. You might not identify with tv characters, which is fine, but children often do. It's hardly surprising, they tend to become much more absorbed in what they're watching and these characters are designed to do that. The characters are held up as being heroic, strong, beautiful, smart etc. Kids idolise them and want to be like them. Every halloween you see kids dressing up like them and pretending to be them. Now, it probably doesn't effect a kid if they don't look like the characters from their favourite show. But if they don't look like any of these characters from any of these shows? If they see nothing of themselves in any of these characters that represent all these good things? What kind of message are they going to take away from that? It's easy to hold that opinion as an adult who can properly think about and appreciate these things but kids have a much more simple way of consuming media and identifying with what they're seeing. Quote: Ironically, it seems kinda sexist to me when you start saying the gender of a character matters. Why should a strong female character be worth any more than a strong male one? They aren't worth more inherently but they are rarer and I can bet you it matters to a little girl when she gets to see Wonder Woman kicking a* amongst a male dominated Justice League. Quote: Pretty sure that's something the parents should take notice of. If you hear your daughter say "Mommy/Daddy, why don't I look like Elsa?" I think that should be a huge warning sign that something ain't right. This pretty rarely happens though, it's never that straight forward. It's pervasive and it can effect the way girls (or kids in general) view body image entirely. There's a general issue with physical beauty being such an overly prized trait (pretty much every princess is beautiful and is described that way multiple times in the movie) and these representations show kids what beauty looks like. Which 1. sets unrealistic standards and 2. suggests that it is something you should strive towards. Again, it doesn't effect everyone this way but it does effect enough that it's an issue. Eating disorders are on the rise (and are the most deadly mental illness there is) and have been for some time so these are the kind of things we should be thinking about.
	We'll never be those kids again


+ Clearin	Aug 17 2016, 02:03 PM Post #17
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	Quote: That's the first time I've ever heard someone say they'd be okay with shows and TV that exclusively contained white heterosexual male characters, but I suppose there's always a first for everything. Because for the longest time male characters were portrayed as strong, capable, and rational whereas female characters were dupey, weak, and contributed nothing to the plot. Do you not remember our history and the stereotypes we've fought to overcome within the last several decades, or does that just suddenly not mean anything to you? Throw it all out the window? Let's go back to the days when women were portrayed as weak idiots and black people weren't even on TV? Yeah, that's a step in the right direction for sure. It's literally the same thing here. Why do we never see people of different body types on TV or in films? Why does a person's weight matter? I'm using the same argument as you are, and it makes perfect sense for my side as well. An exclusively skinny, beautiful cast projects the idea that people of other body types don't matter. I said I'd be fine with an all black, female, bisexual cast too. The gender or race of characters doesn't mean jack to me, and I don't know why it should to anyone else. Quote: The issue with it is this. You might not identify with tv characters, which is fine, but children often do. It's hardly surprising, they tend to become much more absorbed in what they're watching and these characters are designed to do that. The characters are held up as being heroic, strong, beautiful, smart etc. Kids idolise them and want to be like them. Every halloween you see kids dressing up like them and pretending to be them. Now, it probably doesn't effect a kid if they don't look like the characters from their favourite show. But if they don't look like any of these characters from any of these shows? If they see nothing of themselves in any of these characters that represent all these good things? What kind of message are they going to take away from that? It's easy to hold that opinion as an adult who can properly think about and appreciate these things but kids have a much more simple way of consuming media and identifying with what they're seeing. I was a child once, and I still never saw any cartoon character as a representation of me. Because they're not. A white cartoon character doesn't represent all white people, just as a black character doesn't represent black people. I never noticed a cartoon character "looking like" me at all. Just sharing a single trait doesn't mean they look like me. And like I said, why is the list so arbitrary? Why can't all characters represent you because they're all humans? Why those specific traits? There might be white males to "represent" me in fiction, but I have a ton of traits that I rarely, if ever, see shown in cartoons and other works of fiction. Quote: They aren't worth more inherently but they are rarer and I can bet you it matters to a little girl when she gets to see Wonder Woman kicking a* amongst a male dominated Justice League. That makes no sense to me though. As a kid I watched DBZ and powerpuff girls, it never meant more to me whether it was the mostly-male or mostly-female cast kicking a*. I just think this entire thing is dumb. As a viewer, I have absolutely no interest in anything about the characters I'm viewing except their actual character. I just can't get into the mindset that other people have where they actually care if a character is male, female, black, white, straight, gay, short, tall, fat, skinny etc. I guess I understand that it's important to people, but my brain just can't relate to it, so to me it comes across as kind of weird.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 17 2016, 02:07 PM Post #18
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	You weren't a female who grew up in the world of video games, comics, and other "boy" hobbies, so I suppose you wouldn't really be able to relate. That's not necessarily a stab at you--just a glimpse into my personal relation to this topic.



+ Clearin	Aug 17 2016, 02:09 PM Post #19
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	That could be the case. I guess if I can't experience this side of the argument from a girls perspective, it's hard for me to make a case for why it is or isn't important.



* Mitas	Aug 17 2016, 04:53 PM Post #20
It truly was a Shawshank redemption Posts: 12,129 Group: Retired Staff Member #2,993 Joined: December 16, 2007 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist	You also seem to be hanging on to the idea of being aware of it. The whole point is that it is affecting children without them being aware of it. It's not that kids are specifically looking to cartoon shows and saying "right, Elsa looks like that, therefore if I don't, then I'm a bad person", it's that their brain sees that every main character from all their favourite shows looks a certain way, knows that they don't look that way, and sees that as a negative thing. Again, they aren't aware of that thought process as it's happening, it just happens. If they aren't specifically aware of that thought process, then it is going unchallenged throughout their childhood and the longer that happens, the harder it is to reverse that thought process when you are aware of it. Hence why some people believe they are ugly no matter what other people say: they've been thinking they are ugly for years, other people must be lying. It's easy as an adult to say "don't look to cartoons, TV, or movies for role models" because you know better, but kids aren't even aware that role models are impacting their lives, they just live their lives because they're kids. Also, regarding the 'it doesn't matter what race/gender/sexuality' a character is, no it doesn't. But it's in our nature to want to find other people like us. Sure, in an ideal world we would all see each other as purely human, but that's not how it is. If every character is just one race, gender, or sexuality, it works in the same way as the above paragraph: wait, there are no people like me on TV, why? Is there something wrong with me? Again, not necessarily a conscious thought process, but a thought process nonetheless.
	"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is."


+ Steve	Aug 17 2016, 09:28 PM Post #21
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	If children are being influenced by these things then I would blame parents for not teaching them how the real world works at all. It's not the fault of cartoons, which have basically always had exaggerated designs. Nobody ever complained that Popeye doesn't have a realistic body type. These things always seem to focus on females too, yet there are dozens of examples of unrealistic male body types. I had like 8 Action Man's and was fairly obsessed with Action Man as well as DBZ when I was younger and f*** yeah did I want to look like them but not once did I consider it would just happen without considerable effort. Seems to me like it's more of an issue with how we raise young girls. Stop getting young girls in to fashion and make up, making them consider body image and beauty. Putting make up on your kid can be funny but it also puts the idea in their head that they need it to be beautiful or at all. Nobody should need make up to feel beautiful, of course many women do but that's not a behaviour that should be perpetuated along future generations. Also it almost never makes sense for a Disney princess to be fat, why would Mulan be fat? Or Elsa? I guess Elsa could have put on a bit of chub sitting in that room for years but otherwise she was active and healthy as basically all the princesses are. I don't see why we should include fat/obese princesses, just more races and sexualities. Perhaps disabilities too so long as it was done well, not giving disabled kids false hope. Kids shouldn't aspire to have unhealthy body types if you want your kid to have a fat Disney princess to look up too, cut it out and feed your damn kid properly. Fast food every night is not a valid diet. (discounting genuine health problems that cause obesity which lets face it aren't as common as people would like them to be) Anyway yeah I wouldn't say Disney princesses have any blame in this it's how people raise their kids, don't leave it to cartoons to fill their heads with body image ideas, lead by example. Stop focusing on how pretty your girl is, telling her that how she looks should actually matter, basically never get that with boys.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


lazerbem	Aug 17 2016, 09:41 PM Post #22
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Quote: Or Elsa? I guess Elsa could have put on a bit of chub sitting in that room for years but otherwise she was active and healthy as basically all the princesses are. Elsa's case should basically be one of two extremes, either being obese from just sitting around or really skinny for the same reason. Depends on how much she was eating in there and how she coped. Quote: Kids shouldn't aspire to have unhealthy body types if you want your kid to have a fat Disney princess to look up too, Fat isn't necessarily unhealthy Take a look at Olympic lifters, for instance, they tend to be rather plump.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Mihawk	Aug 17 2016, 09:54 PM Post #23
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Being able to lift a lot doesn't make you healthy



+ Steve	Aug 17 2016, 10:00 PM Post #24
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	That still isn't really that healthy, the fatter you are the harder your organs have to work to keep your body functioning. A body like that requires a lot of upkeep. If a child wants to be an Olympic weightlifter sure after a certain point but if they just love food and don't want to exercise then they don't need a Prince/Princess to say such a thing is an okay life choice, not for a child. If an adult wants to be a human piece of trash that does all sorts of horrible unhealthy crap then go for it but children should be angled towards healthy life styles. (I mean generally trash, not that fat people are) Generally I think society as a whole should stop talking about beauty and talk about health. Girls should be thinking: "Wow, I want to be fit and healthy like Elsa!" Rather than: "I want to be pretty and get a nice husband that will buy me lots of things!" Nothing wrong with that as a message, kids should want to be healthy and active. Just because some aren't doesn't mean that's not a positive message. I use Elsa again because right after running away she basically ran up a snowy mountain, girl must have been doing some serious endurance training all those years
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


lazerbem	Aug 18 2016, 02:04 AM Post #25
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	There's different types of training and people can be healthy at different sizes, yes depending on what they've trained for.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Buuberries	Aug 19 2016, 10:11 PM Post #26
No Posts: 7,150 Group: Members Member #8,753 Joined: December 30, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime The Passion of Christ What Browser do you use? Christianity Favourite Manga The Bible	Clearin Aug 17 2016, 12:11 PM I'm not convinced. No one told them they have to look like cartoon characters. I don't care if it's subconscious or not, the problem isn't the art style of a drawing, the problem is people actually thinking, consciously or not, that not only is a specific type of way they have to look, but that they base this on a cartoon rather than real life people around them. Surely they can look at the hundreds of adult women around them and realise that "Oh no, I guess it's okay if I don't have a tiny waist". Maybe the proportions of a disney princess isn't realistic, but you know what else isn't realistic? Magic flying carpets, wish-granting genies, puppets that come to life, elephants that can use their ears to fly, mermaids, fairies and a whole lotta other fantasy stuff in disney movies. It's annoying when people say "Media tells girls they need to look like this". No, YOU'RE telling yourself you need to look like that. you know what you might be right. i'll go to my nearest clinic tomorrow and tell all the people w/ mental disorders to stop experiencing them bc it's their choice. maybe it might even work on one of my clients who has paranoid schizophrenia
	¯\(°_o)/¯


+ Clearin	Aug 19 2016, 10:14 PM Post #27
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	Buuberries Aug 19 2016, 10:11 PM Clearin Aug 17 2016, 12:11 PM I'm not convinced. No one told them they have to look like cartoon characters. I don't care if it's subconscious or not, the problem isn't the art style of a drawing, the problem is people actually thinking, consciously or not, that not only is a specific type of way they have to look, but that they base this on a cartoon rather than real life people around them. Surely they can look at the hundreds of adult women around them and realise that "Oh no, I guess it's okay if I don't have a tiny waist". Maybe the proportions of a disney princess isn't realistic, but you know what else isn't realistic? Magic flying carpets, wish-granting genies, puppets that come to life, elephants that can use their ears to fly, mermaids, fairies and a whole lotta other fantasy stuff in disney movies. It's annoying when people say "Media tells girls they need to look like this". No, YOU'RE telling yourself you need to look like that. you know what you might be right. i'll go to my nearest clinic tomorrow and tell all the people w/ mental disorders to stop experiencing them bc it's their choice. maybe it might even work on one of my clients who has paranoid schizophrenia It probably won't work. You'd have to be crazy to think that would work in a case like paranoid schizophrenia. You should consider a different job if that's the kind of thing you actually plan to tell people, jeez.



Jet	Aug 19 2016, 11:01 PM Post #28
Ruka is a dude Posts: 443 Group: Member Member #9,382 Joined: April 16, 2013 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime LOGH, Berserk, Monster, Steins;Gate, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, GITS, Studio Ghibli's stuff. What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer (message sent from 2005) Favourite Manga Berserk, Dragon Ball, Vagabond	Let's change Disney princesses to overweight and racially ambiguous girls who can beat up men and don't need help from anyone. Yeah, that'll cause less problems down the road when 4 year old plain Jane grows up and figures out that that the real world doesn't work like that.



Buuberries	Aug 19 2016, 11:28 PM Post #29
No Posts: 7,150 Group: Members Member #8,753 Joined: December 30, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime The Passion of Christ What Browser do you use? Christianity Favourite Manga The Bible	Clearin Aug 19 2016, 10:14 PM Buuberries Aug 19 2016, 10:11 PM Clearin Aug 17 2016, 12:11 PM I'm not convinced. No one told them they have to look like cartoon characters. I don't care if it's subconscious or not, the problem isn't the art style of a drawing, the problem is people actually thinking, consciously or not, that not only is a specific type of way they have to look, but that they base this on a cartoon rather than real life people around them. Surely they can look at the hundreds of adult women around them and realise that "Oh no, I guess it's okay if I don't have a tiny waist". Maybe the proportions of a disney princess isn't realistic, but you know what else isn't realistic? Magic flying carpets, wish-granting genies, puppets that come to life, elephants that can use their ears to fly, mermaids, fairies and a whole lotta other fantasy stuff in disney movies. It's annoying when people say "Media tells girls they need to look like this". No, YOU'RE telling yourself you need to look like that. you know what you might be right. i'll go to my nearest clinic tomorrow and tell all the people w/ mental disorders to stop experiencing them bc it's their choice. maybe it might even work on one of my clients who has paranoid schizophrenia It probably won't work. You'd have to be crazy to think that would work in a case like paranoid schizophrenia. You should consider a different job if that's the kind of thing you actually plan to tell people, jeez. they're making themselves crazy so we just have to tell them to stop it dw i trust your opinion.
	¯\(°_o)/¯


+ Clearin	Aug 19 2016, 11:31 PM Post #30
Posts: 12,580 Group: Elite Member Member #6,372 Joined: June 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country United Kingdom	Buuberries Aug 19 2016, 11:28 PM Clearin Aug 19 2016, 10:14 PM Buuberries Aug 19 2016, 10:11 PM Clearin Aug 17 2016, 12:11 PM I'm not convinced. No one told them they have to look like cartoon characters. I don't care if it's subconscious or not, the problem isn't the art style of a drawing, the problem is people actually thinking, consciously or not, that not only is a specific type of way they have to look, but that they base this on a cartoon rather than real life people around them. Surely they can look at the hundreds of adult women around them and realise that "Oh no, I guess it's okay if I don't have a tiny waist". Maybe the proportions of a disney princess isn't realistic, but you know what else isn't realistic? Magic flying carpets, wish-granting genies, puppets that come to life, elephants that can use their ears to fly, mermaids, fairies and a whole lotta other fantasy stuff in disney movies. It's annoying when people say "Media tells girls they need to look like this". No, YOU'RE telling yourself you need to look like that. you know what you might be right. i'll go to my nearest clinic tomorrow and tell all the people w/ mental disorders to stop experiencing them bc it's their choice. maybe it might even work on one of my clients who has paranoid schizophrenia It probably won't work. You'd have to be crazy to think that would work in a case like paranoid schizophrenia. You should consider a different job if that's the kind of thing you actually plan to tell people, jeez. they're making themselves crazy so we just have to tell them to stop it dw i trust your opinion. But I told you not to do it, so you're going against my opinion, silly.



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