Is homosexuality a choice or genetics?

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Is homosexuality a choice or genetics?
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 15 2016, 08:07 AM (3,684 Views)
Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 04:14 PM Post #61
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	I really think you can have a disorder where you decide to be gay because it behooves some ulterior motive and therefore like being gay by the virtue of it giving you what you want Whether it's spite, selfishness, or plain ostentatiousness it doesn't sound any different than people that love bullying because it makes them feel good about themselves or something else Think about the phases of music taste people go thru in hs or middle school because it sets them apart, actually sounds like the thread ofg just made 5 secs ago Edited by Wagwan, Aug 16 2016, 04:16 PM.



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 16 2016, 04:22 PM Post #62
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Clank Aug 16 2016, 04:14 PM I really think you can have a disorder where you decide to be gay because it behooves some ulterior motive and therefore like being gay by the virtue of it giving you what you want Whether it's spite, selfishness, or plain ostentatiousness it doesn't sound any different than people that love bullying because it makes them feel good about themselves or something else Sure, they're forcing themselves to like something because they have a desire to force themselves to like it. They still can't choose that desire (the one to force themselves to like something) itself, it's something that's come upon them. You can force yourself to enjoy carrots because you feel healthy eating them, but the desire to force yourself comes from a desire to feel/be healthy which comes from your desire to look good (maybe) which comes from your desire to have people find you attractive which comes from... The point is, whatever desire comes upon you, you haven't authored it. You've merely chosen whether or not to act on it.



Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 04:30 PM Post #63
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	So at what point are you are you not forcing yourself to be whatever orientation I'm [won't tell you guys] bc I want x, y and z in a [won't tell you guys] bc I want 1, 2, and 3 to take place in my relationship because it behooves me and my desires now replace all those variables with things we'd typically call nefarious hats the difference?



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 16 2016, 05:10 PM Post #64
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	I never said you have to force yourself to be anything. You said some people can want to force themselves to do something to sate another desire of theirs, (an ostentatious display of homosexuality because it pisses daddy off so, so much) and I agreed, some people probably do, but pointed out they still haven't chosen to have that desire (to piss daddy off); it's come about naturally through powers beyond them. They've chosen to do something, and may relish in the act of it, because it satisfies a connecting itch that they never created. They experienced it—acted on it—but they never created it. The desire to read Keats and Yeats can happen upon you because you're a lover of poetry, or you can want to read them due to a desire to be perceived as a lover of poetry, because then maybe you'll be perceived as dead interlektual. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 16 2016, 05:14 PM.



Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 05:23 PM Post #65
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	Ahh I misread " You can force yourself to enjoy carrots because you feel healthy eating them, but the desire to force yourself comes from a desire to feel/be healthy which comes from your desire to look good (maybe) " that 'can' and 'can't', my bad zuli. But you still believe it's not legitimate if done in that way then?



~~Helvius Pertinax Augustus~~	Aug 16 2016, 05:26 PM Post #66
What will you do when you get old? Posts: 1,096 Group: Suspended Member #12,915 Joined: February 8, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Don't actually watch anime What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Don't read manga	Lazuli Aug 16 2016, 04:03 PM Jar-Jar Binks Aug 16 2016, 03:43 PM If you didn't want to do homosexual acts, why would you? Unless you're being forced to do so, which I would consider rape and not a homosexual act, then there's no reason to choose to do so when you're not homosexual, unless as Clank said, you're a sycophant looking for a leg up, and even then it'd still be your choice. You don't have to directly desire something yourself to choose to do it, you can desire other things that entail that act. Someone might partake in a homosexual act, despite not wanting to, because it pays well; or because someone asked them ever so nicely, and they liked them enough to do it. The desire—whatever sort of desire that be—precedes the action, but where that desire comes from isn't something you can will yourself to have. People that genuinely desire another person of the same sex aren't choosing to desire that any more than you choose to like guns, or a person of the opposite sex. That is, you're not choosing to. Clank: you could choose to pretend to be gay, absolutely—the corollary of which is pretending you're not, of course—but you can't choose whether you're actually attracted to people of the same sex any more than you could choose to like Runescape. I still fail to see in how you're explaining it, that it isn't a choice. Your actions may not be indicative of your true feelings, but we as humans have control over both and to remove responsibility (for lack of a better term, if anyone has a better term let me know) from the individual by claiming something like desire takes precedence over actions is an alien concept to me. You're not judged by your desires, you're judged by your actions. Ideas are simply ideas until they take physical form, in the case of homosexuality, homosexual acts. Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream, but that didn't matter at all until he acted upon it. It was his choice to start a civil rights movement. If he didn't act on his desire for equality, he wouldn't be regarded as a leader for equality. He'd simply be a guy with ideas and a concept of equality. Ted Kacyznski had ideas about terrorism and desired to hurt people. He wasn't considered a terrorist and murderer until after he put his ideas in to some tangible form. Did he have terrorist tendencies? Yes, but until he chose to act, he wasn't either of those. OFG would be considered Bisexual because she chose to have sex with both genders regardless of actual desire. In the same vein, Peep wouldn't be considered homosexual just because he chose to talk about committing homosexual acts when he hasn't. I can't say if he has a genuine desire to do so, that's up to him to decide, but he has not committed to his comments to the best of my knowledge so he would not be considered homosexual.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 16 2016, 05:30 PM Post #67
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I know plenty of lesbians who've had sex with men, and I know gay men who've had sex with women. The reasons for them doing so don't boil down to sexual orientation or desire; it's more than likely social or religious pressure to conform.



Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 05:30 PM Post #68
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	That peep guy said he'd legit have sex with me so I don't think he's a great example (not 2 undercut your case or anything) But you make a good point, there seems to be a no-true-scotsman fallacy underlying what I think zuli is trying to say (could be wrong tho)



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 16 2016, 05:35 PM Post #69
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Clank Aug 16 2016, 05:23 PM Ahh I misread " You can force yourself to enjoy carrots because you feel healthy eating them, but the desire to force yourself comes from a desire to feel/be healthy which comes from your desire to look good (maybe) " that 'can' and 'can't', my bad zuli. But you still believe it's not legitimate if done in that way then? No worries. Whether it's legitimate or not would depend on individual people, so I really couldn't say. I think it would be very rare for someone to pretend to be homosexual, just not impossible. After all, some homosexuals had been practicing heterosexual's (edit: despite not having desires for the opposite sex) for the entirety of their lives when it was criminal. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 16 2016, 05:41 PM.



Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 05:42 PM Post #70
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	I just think it operates the same way people assume an identity like the depressed 12 year old that swears they're not going through a phase when they dress themselves head 2 toe in angsty hot topic gear, they're being really earnest but most of them grow out of it for whatever reason (like becoming less insecure or w/e) and so too I think the same can be said for ppl that really think they're gay, especially wet blanket 14 year olds



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 16 2016, 05:50 PM Post #71
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I think it's very possible for an angsty teen to go through a phase of thinking they're bi or gay, but actually living life as a homosexual is a bit different from that. I think it's highly unlikely that someone would take it that seriously if they aren't actually gay.



Wagwan	Aug 16 2016, 05:51 PM Post #72
Posts: 190 Group: Member Member #12,260 Joined: April 22, 2015	Hey if they believe it who's to tell em they're wrong



Zoom	Aug 18 2016, 09:38 AM Post #73
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	When we say choice, how much is the person in control in choosing? One of my girlfriend friends goes between bisexual and lesbian. And at the start she was heterosexual, but was hurt over and over again so she decided not to trust all men, so she was lesbian for a long time then recently started to allow bisexual.



+ Sandy Shore	Aug 18 2016, 11:19 AM Post #74
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	SSj4 Gotenks Aug 18 2016, 09:38 AM When we say choice, how much is the person in control in choosing? They have a choice in how they act, not in how they feel. Quote: but was hurt over and over again so she decided not to trust all men She didn't decide not to trust men, she found that she no longer could - or should. She didn't decide to trust women more, she found that she could - or should. She didn't choose to therefore find relationship with women preferable, she found that she did. She chose, in light of these things, to have relationships with women and not men. When she found herself more willing to have relationships with men again, she—it seems—chose to start having relationships with men again. Like people don't choose to be hungry; they find that they are. People don't choose to get depressed; they find that they are. People don't choose what's attractive to them; they find that it is.



~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Aug 18 2016, 01:00 PM Post #75
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	SSj4 Gotenks Aug 18 2016, 09:38 AM When we say choice, how much is the person in control in choosing? One of my girlfriend friends goes between bisexual and lesbian. And at the start she was heterosexual, but was hurt over and over again so she decided not to trust all men, so she was lesbian for a long time then recently started to allow bisexual. Sounds to me like she's been bisexual the whole time and just chose who she dated. I did that for a long time, too.



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