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| Would you convert to being a vegan as a sacrifice for love? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 9 2016, 03:56 PM (1,998 Views) | |
| + Sandy Shore | Aug 9 2016, 08:59 PM Post #31 |
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OFC: It's not like asking someone to believe in and fear some imaginary fairy-tale creature that there's no absolutely evidence for. It's asking someone to take notice of their very real, needlessly damaging effects on others, and doing their best to stop doing it. One is made up, the other is not. It's far more akin to asking people to give up slavery. If your moral code doesn't extend to slaves then it's arbitrarily based upon one's pleasure and/or convenience, built up with delusions and excuses as to why it's okay. No, no, no, I'm not telling you all to go vegan, because yes, yes, yes, you'd all rather see them all dead. I'm just pointing out the false analogies. Sam: Other humans are not cats. If your cat goes around attacking other cats, do you then think it's therefore okay for your children, or children in your family to around attacking other children, or will you tell them it's wrong? Why do you tell them it's wrong? Because they're humans, and humans can consciously stop doing things. You might all question why someone would ask you to stop being cruel if they loved you, and others might question why someone would love you when you won't stop being cruel. Me and my big mouth, eh? Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 9 2016, 09:01 PM.
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| Buuberries | Aug 9 2016, 09:04 PM Post #32 |
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No
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i havent thought about it too much but that just kind of sounds similar to saying if you use technology made in china then you support child labour. |
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| Sam | Aug 9 2016, 09:05 PM Post #33 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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And humans can consciously choose to not own a cat. Or, keep it as a housecat and feed it an exclusively vegan diet. Dogs as well. I think the religious analogy is more accurate to the human condition rather than an accurate analogy for veganism. That's at least how I tried to word it. What do you mean by "rather have them all dead"? I certainly don't think that's true towards animals or towards vegans.
Edited by Sam, Aug 9 2016, 09:08 PM.
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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Aug 9 2016, 09:12 PM Post #34 |
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Exactly buubs. Don't eat animals because you're supporting the inhumane slaughtering of animals, don't buy from China because you're supporting child labor, don't wear makeup or hair product because you're supporting inhumane animal testing, etc. etc. etc. I think my analogy is still pretty fair despite not being exactly the same thing. There are so many analogies to be made. All that being said, I morally agree with veganism because of the slaughterhouse issue, but I won't be a vegan because of health reasons, like I said in my first post. |
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| + Sandy Shore | Aug 9 2016, 09:17 PM Post #35 |
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If you buy products that were made via the use of child labour then you are supporting child labour. That is, you're supporting the system that uses it; contributing to its continuation. Not everything made in China is made with child labourers, no, but if avoiding an entire country is the only way you can be sure children weren't exploited for the cheap products, or the only way you can send the message that it's not okay for them to conduct business that way, then it's a necessary move. Sam: I was being facetious, because if meat-eaters had to choose between giving up meat or all vegans dying, which do you think they'd prefer? My money is on the vegans dying. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Aug 9 2016, 09:19 PM Post #36 |
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Same but I still watch him because he does make interesting videos every now and then and has his moments where I do find him funny. Most of the time though he's... Pretty extreme lol @lazuli wtf? You think meat eaters would rather kill off all the vegans than give up meat? Dude people are pretty screwed up sometimes but have some more faith in humanity than that, Jesus Christ Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Aug 9 2016, 09:21 PM.
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Aug 9 2016, 09:20 PM Post #37 |
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But would you ask your significant other to give up buying from China to avoid supporting child labor...? |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 9 2016, 09:23 PM Post #38 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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If eating meat makes me cruel, then I am happy to be cruel. I am aware that animals are being slaughtered so we can eat meat, but meat is actually near-necessary in our diet. If you choose not to eat meat, fine, but don't judge those who decide to eat meat; You are not better than them. |
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Aug 9 2016, 09:26 PM Post #39 |
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It isn't even just about that, either. Not all meat eaters are inhumane. Sure, most are, but there are ways around that, like raising your own animals or buying from sources that you know take care of their animals. For example, my family buys mostly organic, and we purchase eggs from a woman who raises her own chickens. She is definitely not inhumane with her animals. I guess you could argue that you're still supporting the murdering of roosters, but seriously? That's nit-picking. Like I said in my first post, a diet that includes lean meats and dairy is actually a lot more healthy for you if you're buying from sources that don't inject tons of chemicals into their food. |
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| + Emmeth | Aug 9 2016, 09:29 PM Post #40 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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I'm just sick of the elitist attitude that some vegans seem to have. If they can't pressure you into not eating meat, they start with the "well, you're a murderer then and I'm better than you for it". |
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| * Mitas | Aug 9 2016, 09:32 PM Post #41 |
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It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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If the fate of every vegan in the world rested on me giving up meat, then I would happily do so. Call me an optimist, but I'd like to think more people would give up meat than let thousands of people die. |
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"Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
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| Sam | Aug 9 2016, 09:49 PM Post #42 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I'm sure people would want to ensure humanity's survival than the continuation of a nasty industry. I get what you mean though. Regardless of the thought differences here, I do mean this in a good way; you have proven to be a very interesting man Lazuli and I hope you don't feel like we're ganging up towards you. I just wish Kris (Strawberry) were here for this topic
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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| + Sandy Shore | Aug 9 2016, 10:05 PM Post #43 |
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I don't have a partner, nor will I ever, but I don't see why someone else shouldn't bring it to other people's attention whether they loved them or not. I don't think it's as pressing an issue as 50-60 billion animals being raped, tortured, mutilated and killed every year, but it's undoubtedly an unacceptable fact. I certainly wouldn't feel any sort of outrage at someone pointing it out to me, and telling me my actions are contributing to the suffering of others were I to be in the habit of buying such products. Someone who takes the utmost care to avoid things made by miserable children are doing a good thing, and them telling others is also a good thing. Emmeth: are you morally better than someone that owns slaves? Are you morally better than someone who abuses children? Are you morally better than someone than beats up random passers by? Are you morally better than someone that hangs cats from trees - or even just kicks them? The less cruel you are, you more moral you are, we surely all agree? If you define a better person as a more moral one—as most seem to regarding the things they grew up being taught were wrong—then they are "better". This isn't some elitist, holier-than-thou high. You can tell me how despicable I am; how I'm utterly worthless and worm-like my very existence is, and I would genuinely agree with you. I don't get anything out of conversations like this but varying degrees of grief, and I imagine it's the same for many people who champion the rights of others—look how smug I am—but you can't deny that extending your kindness to more things that require it isn't a good thing. And knowingly relishing in your cruelty might the best way to define evil. Have you got a source on this? I can dig out plenty that says diets with no meat or dairy extend one's life and reduce the risks for all sorts of diseases, and plenty that explains why organic and free-range products aren't cruelty-free, if even less cruel at all. Sam: Don't worry, I know I'm not being ganged up on. I jumped in to the conversation knowing what to expect, and it doesn't in any way feel personal. Nor am I personally attacking anyone else (yet!). Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 9 2016, 10:12 PM.
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| Tinny | Aug 9 2016, 10:16 PM Post #44 |
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I'm just gonna point out right than Pouf was very general about this. Would you go vegan for the one you love, and I guess the way I view this is that if the person I loved wanted me to stop eating meat, than more likely than not s/he's probably brought me around to the idea of going vegan in the first place and helped to provide a foundation to support that. I dunno, I'm just thinking that this hypothetical vegan lover would more likely try to 'convert' you or me more organically than threatening leaving. It'd likely be a process over days or weeks or months potentially, does that make sense to anyone? I feel like everyone's just assuming the lover is a harpy telling you to not eat meat or they'll leave. Edited by Tinny, Aug 9 2016, 10:24 PM.
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| + Emmeth | Aug 9 2016, 10:19 PM Post #45 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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I feel like all of that is different from the slaughtering of animals. A human life is worth more than most animals, I would only exclude animals we normally keep as pets; Dogs and cats specifically. Most animals are actually either cruel or decease-bearers, acting on instinct which could potentially hurt humans. I'm not saying we should hunt for sport because I'm vehemently against that, but humans actually get stronger by eating meat. Strength is important. There's no ultimate proof that not eating meat grants you a longer healthier life, but I agree it depends on what kind of meat you eat. At your behest (i know you haven't actually commanded me to do anything, I just wanted to use this word) I've actually taken efforts to eat less meat, having days off for instance. I'm not personally attacking you and calling you elitist, I'm just pointing out that I've crossed paths with people like that. Though I will admit I see some sense of "pride" from you that you are vegan or vegatarian, be it an illusion or not. I actually like you as a person, at least in an internet sense of way. |
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I certainly don't think that's true towards animals or towards vegans.














5:01 PM Jul 13