| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| How strong would a half blooded saiyan be with goku motivation; ? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 28 2016, 08:31 AM (3,237 Views) | |
| Amerson26 | Jul 28 2016, 08:31 AM Post #1 |
![]()
|
Let's say goku was a half saiyan like you an how strong would he be? With the same amount of training |
![]() |
|
| Zoom | Jul 28 2016, 12:39 PM Post #2 |
![]() ![]()
|
I don't understand, the topic question is a little different to your text question.
Like who? |
![]() |
|
| Thiln | Jul 28 2016, 01:06 PM Post #3 |
![]()
|
Depends on which hybrid we're referring to. Vegeta in Super all but admitted that Gohan's monstrous potential was inherently his own alone and not just some generalised product that any hybrid possesses, at least not to the same degree. If it's Goten and Trunks we're talking about then they would at least be able to keep up with their parents. They might even surpass them to some degree, but Gohan would still be ahead of everyone if he was as committed as Goku. I could see SSJB Gohan going toe to toe with full power Beerus by the U6 tournament arc. |
| |
![]() |
|
| superperfectnerd | Jul 28 2016, 01:23 PM Post #4 |
![]()
|
What Vegeta believes isn't necessarily the truth. He's seen Gohan grow in strength rapidly under Goku's tutelage before but Trunks wasn't given the same training, he was ignored by Vegeta. Goten and Trunks were used to ssjs and were allowed to fight and spar together, hence their strength. Gohan wasn't allowed to fight and was taught to be calm and polite, hence him having a hidden rage boost. Goten and Trunks were allowed to flaunt their power on the surface from birth and were surrounded by stronger fighters than Gohan ever was. I find it unlikely that the first hybrid saiyan ever born had some million to one hidden potential. Its statistically unlikely, there's only been three hybrids so far. Also, the hybrids are more naturally tied in to their human emotions and their power is motivated by that, Goku and Vegeta aren't the same in that regard. But just because the hybrds seem to grow faster, doesn't mean their ultimate potential is higher than the pure bloods. Same way Toriyama has said Frieza would never catch Beerus, I imagine Goku and Vegeta will surpass Beerus at some point. Just because they were born far weaker and grew more slowly than Frieza in their training, doesn't mean they have less ultimate potential. |
![]() |
|
| Thiln | Jul 28 2016, 02:00 PM Post #5 |
![]()
|
Why does Goten and Trunks not share in this, you ask? Well from a narrative standpoint it likely has to do with Toriyama's intention to distinguish Gohan from the others and ultimately make him the protagonist of the series. It's for the same reason that Goku always seems to be one step of Vegeta even when his training methods are of less quality (Toriyama wrote through Toyotaro for Goku to just be outright stronger than Vegeta in the manga without treading up old techniques). And if you're asking for a precedent, just look towards the Cell Games for it. Trunks knew full well about the method Gohan used to become so powerful through Vegeta. He could have followed in Gohan's footsteps in trying to acclimatise the Super Saiyan form while he spent his extra day in the RoSaT, yet in the end we're shown that he's still inferior to Gohan, and he should logically have access to more of his latent potential since he's over a decade older than Gohan. |
| |
![]() |
|
| Sam | Jul 28 2016, 03:19 PM Post #6 |
|
It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
![]()
|
Given and Trunks are too young still and their ceilings don't seem to be as high, or their emotions and motivations, as Conan's. Like Superperfectnerd said, Vegeta didn't dedicate a lot of time to Trunks. He only found out he could turn Super Saiyan, what, a few days or weeks before he died fighting Boo? Gohan would have potential and power far above Goku and Vegeta if he kept up his training and strived to be the best. He is a prodigy that just realized he didn't need to be a fighter anymore. Just because he could be the greatest doesn't mean that's what he wants. Chi Chi, especially in Goku's absences due to dying or disappearing, really hammered the education angle into Gohan and I think that shaped him for what he would become later in life. Just my opinion, anyway. |
|
WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
![]() |
|
| superperfectnerd | Jul 28 2016, 09:36 PM Post #7 |
![]()
|
Vegeta's training is weakened by his pride, just like everything he does. Goku used the gravity machine, got what he needed and left it behind. Vegeta still tortures himself in the same old routines constantly. Gohan mastered ssj which is like stamina training and increased his base dramatically AND had sparring with Goku. Trunks could have mastered ssj alone but he had nobody to spar with as once again, Vegeta was being proud. As I said, just because Gohan and the brats seem to have advanced more quickly, doesn't mean they have a higher ceiling than Goku or Vegeta. |
![]() |
|
| Thiln | Jul 28 2016, 10:00 PM Post #8 |
![]()
|
Goku hasn't been shown as being hesitant to look backwards towards previously mastered training methods for use in the present time. Take his choosing to train with King Kai on his planet for instance, or using some rudimentary appendage weights in the Buu arc despite having already mastered such mechanics of strength acquirement back when he was doing agricultural work with a heavy turtle shell on at Roshi's. It isn't necessarily wrong for characters to explore and look towards their past regimens as a source for additional work outs. Regarding Trunks' solo regimen - that is true, he had no one else to work with. But at the same time, he had a much longer period in which to improve himself with a higher base to start with. Gohan spent much of his efforts in the RoSaT just trying to reach a comparable level with Goku so they could finally start making some actual worthwhile gains. Also, one of the most prominently emphasised characteristics of hybrids, more specifically Gohan, in DBZ has been the fact that their potential is so incredibly high. It's not just the rate at which they acquire power but the amount as well. Just look at Gohan. He was surpassing fully committed lifelong martial artists in power at five. Some brief swordsmanship lessons in the Buu arc had everyone around him skeptical over whether he could defeat Buu or not, which arguably speaks better of his own chances compared to the two Saiyan adults who were cemented as being incapable of doing so using SSJ2. Goku himself admits that Gohan is undefeatable when his anger (i.e. potential power) is unleashed. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6 Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone… Edited by Thiln, Jul 28 2016, 10:01 PM.
|
| |
![]() |
|
|
|
Jul 29 2016, 12:20 AM Post #9 |
![]()
|
@Let's say goku was a half saiyan like you an how strong would he be? With the same amount of training He would be pretty much the same. Although, he might be a bit stronger because he would be breaking and surpassing his walls at a faster rate since he is a half saiyan now. |
| |
![]() |
|
| + Son-Goku | Jul 29 2016, 12:35 AM Post #10 |
![]()
孫悟空
![]()
|
Well at the start his power wouldn't increase much seeing as how everyone he faced in Dragon Ball had a power level below 1,000. So he wouldn't really get any gains in power from battles, only from training. So he'd be in the millions probably. He wouldn't face a single challenge up until Frieza. He'd have a much higher level then he ever did but he would still need Super Saiyan to beat Frieza. He would have beat Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga no sweat. He would have also been able to easily overwhelm Cell and with all those years of training Majin Buu as well. His power would be massive. However I still suspect that he would need Super Saiyan Red against Beerus. |
![]() RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power | |
![]() |
|
| superperfectnerd | Jul 29 2016, 02:48 AM Post #11 |
![]()
|
Yes, Goku returns to past methods but he utilises them differently. He knows about balance and taking rests and that sort of thing. He has had many masters and mastered many techniques and styles and has a better general understanding of his own body and how to progress it. Vegeta tortures himself to breaking point and then tortures himself some more and he has nobody to help set him on the right path. You underestimate sparring , especially in the conditions of the ROSAT and especially with an opponent on the level of ssj Goku. Trunks may have had two years but constantly fighting coupled with Goku's better understanding of when to rest and how to best utilise the time and ways in which to train far outweigh Trunk's head-start, age gap or two year stretch. I believe you're right for Z, that it was heavily implied hybrids > full bloods but other than one throw away line by Vegeta, Super doesn't really seem to imply it. I know the hybrids haven't been training but not only that, they aren't recognised by Beerus or Whis to be as worthwhile or as 'dangerous' as Goku and Vegeta. They barely seem to care. Plus with all these god forms and god ki, who knows if half bloods can even do it? Vegeta and Goku may have grown more slowly innitially but thy have rocketed ahead and maybe they have higher ceilings than the hybrids now. |
![]() |
|
| Timothy | Jul 29 2016, 04:16 AM Post #12 |
![]() ![]()
|
Beyond ep 14 Goku atleast imo |
| |
![]() |
|
| Thiln | Jul 29 2016, 11:03 AM Post #13 |
![]()
|
How is Vegeta not aware of the concept of moderation and restitution? He's espoused as being some kind of "genius" just like Goku. In the manga itself I can't recall any specific incidents where he was portrayed as being some kind of pseudo-masochistic training junkie, at least not anymore than Goku is. If you need some kind evidentiary material then compare and contrast when Goku was training on the ship during his trip to Namek and when he was training at King Kai's. Spoiler: click to toggle This is Goku not only relying on virtually the exact same methodology of training as over a decade ago, but in the manga example that's depicting him as firing the Kamehameha he's literally bombarding himself not to test the limits of his own endurance but to damage himself to collapse so he can exploit zenkais to increase his power. Goku has a history of pushing his body past the brink of physical capacity with techniques such as the Kaioken. If anything it's Goku who has tortured himself to the breaking point. We know even less concerning Trunks's training regimens. However, from the brief glimpse shown in the manga's iteration of "History of Trunks", he understands the value of recuperation. The upbringing with Gohan who himself was the product of Piccolo and Goku's styles of training would logically have instilled into him these important lessons. Gohan spent less than a year in the RoSaT. Much of that time was spent on Goku trying to get him up to Super Saiyan level, a point of interest which he admitted would not be beneficial in respect to achieving the long term goal of defeating Cell until they could both spar together at comparable strength. If sparring partners were universally more advantageous to have than just training by yourself, then how is it Vegeta was able to surpass Goku briefly during the 3 year time skip using just a 300x gravity chamber? Goku probably did spend time trying to get Gohan and Piccolo higher up, but with what was shown of Piccolo in the Android arc, he undoubtedly managed to get up to a point where sparring with him as a Super Saiyan was feasible. And I would suspect that training with the likes of Piccolo who should logically be ahead of Frieza at this point would be a more potent source for gains than working in the same old 300x gravity conditions for three years. Trunks having over double the amount of time to work in the RoSaT compared with Gohan should be no different. Keep in mind that Saiyan-Human hybrids was not even a concept until Vegeta mentioned it to Nappa during the early Saiyan arc. Relative to ancient beings like Beerus and Whis, Saiyan-Human hybrids probably don't even appear on their chronological timescale since they're that recent. And I can't say that I'm surprised by Super's attempts to ignore the hybrids. Dragon Ball's sphere of relevancy for its characters has been gradually receding since the original DB tournaments. After the Buu arc it's been just Goku and Vegeta receiving any credible attention. There are few references to the hybrids because they play no part in the narrative that the DBS writers are pursuing. Edited by Thiln, Jul 29 2016, 11:03 AM.
|
| |
![]() |
|
| superperfectnerd | Jul 29 2016, 02:12 PM Post #14 |
![]()
|
I'll concede that perhaps Goku and Vegeta have both been 'pain junkies' in the past but Goku has teachers, you honestly think Goku doesn't have a better grasp on what works for him than Vegeta does? Vegeta's pride is all he had but it hinders him...that's the entire point of his character until he let it go fighting Buu. Vegeta is a genius in terms of battle strategy and fighting, not necessarily training. Plus you are confusing Vegeta's disadvantages with idiocy. It's not stupidity, it's pride. Vegeta MUST do it alone, just like refusing the god ritual, refusing to train with Trunks etc. As soon as he accepted help, like Whis' training or training with Goku in the ROSAT the two saiyans became equal (bar Kaioken). When Vegeta let Cell absorb 18, it wasn't stupidity, it wasn't even overconfidence really. If Vegeta couldn't beat Cell at his best, then his pride and therefore himself were worthless. It was all he had, so he took the risk. That's not a fail in battle strategy, it's his twisted sense of pride and honour. Goku and Gohan weren't just sparring, they were sparring plus ROSAT, plus Goku has a better grasp on training than Trunks ever did, even if he was trained by future Gohan. Sparring is also beneficial once the two super powered opponents are of similar strength, so it could have taken a long time for Piccolo to catch up, then he overtook Goku, so Goku would have had to train in kaioken or ssj and then they'd have been unequal again. Goku and Gohan were close enough after Gohan caught up to get in some proper fighting all out for a few months under ROSAT conditions. Look how strong Goten and Trunks are too, from 'playing' together, they were on fairly equal ground and were able to push each other further and further. Beerus and Whis don't see Gohan's potential but Supreme Kai did in the Buu saga and actually thought he was their best hope. Whis seems more competent and aware than him. |
![]() |
|
| Thiln | Jul 29 2016, 03:14 PM Post #15 |
![]()
|
Goku is a bubbling mass of spontaneity. His background training might have better discipline and structuring but he's still capable of defying the conventions of his teachings when they prove to be an inconvenience - overusage of the Kaioken being one particular example. Moreover, what's shown in the manga paints a picture of Goku pushing himself to greater extremities than Vegeta to achieve his objective power. And how does pride somehow intrinsically limit Vegeta from mastering the Super Saiyan form or exploring greater depths of the methodology he's used to consistently increase his power? From your implications it seems like sparring partners are somehow the end all and be all for efficient training. I'll admit that they're a tried & proven approach but they're not the only approach one can take. Goku continues to remain ahead for the simple reason that he's a "greater genius" than Vegeta. It's only the anime that's consistently portrayed them as equals until now. The manga interpretation which is being overseen by Toriyama has had Goku outright surpass Vegeta in the recent U6 arc via SSJG, a weaker form than SSJB. The RoSaT is one thing, but what is Goku's better grasp? I don't quite understand that. From the glimpses shown of his training with Gohan in the RoSaT there didn't appear to be anything distinctly unique about it except for the obvious normalisation of Super Saiyan. If anything Piccolo's training helped to engender a much more profound impact in Gohan since he transformed from being a coddled infant into a seasoned survivalist on top of raising his power up to par with the human Z-warriors in less than a year's time which was pretty much the standard at the time for everyone who wasn't Goku. This same Gohan is the one who taught Trunks everything he knows. Also - I doubt it would have required all that much time for Piccolo to catch up with Goku. This is the same person who went from admitting that enraged Saiyan arc Gohan could surpass him at a confirmed power level of 2800 to astonishing the strongest Namekian, Nail, with his power in only 6 days time. I don't deny the benefits of sparring partners, especially in the case of two hybrids working together. My issue is this attempted rationalisation of Gohan's latent potential being a free-for-all giveaway that any hybrid possesses when that hasn't really been established as being the case. Both Goku and Vegeta have admitted that Gohan's potential was the strongest. I'm not sure how some dubious questionability in context can be gleaned from that. Regarding Beerus' and Whis' lack of acknowledgement for Gohan when Kaioshin recognised it - all of these deity characters were interpreting different situations from a myopic viewpoint. In Kaioshin's case, he witnessed the depths in which Gohan could become stronger while hearing assurances from Goku that becoming angry allows him to become unsurpassed. With Beerus, his first impression of the Saiyans came through watching a visual recount of Goku pummeling Frieza on Namek. His only impression of Gohan came when he was venting his frustration about not getting a pudding cup against a retired out-of-shape iteration whom he took out by slinging Fat Buu's unconscious body at. It doesn't help that Toei and Toriyama apparently felt to spit on Gohan's unique characteristic for rage inducing power increases by handing it off to Vegeta, which was ironically the thing that made Beerus stop to pause and wonder if Vegeta was the actual Super Saiyan God. |
| |
![]() |
|
| 0 users reading this topic | |
![]() Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Register for Free |
|
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Super · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
4:44 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy



















4:44 PM Jul 13