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Base Goku and Vegeta=>Ep 14 Goku; And the two base theory is fanfic at its finest
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Topic Started: Jul 26 2016, 03:26 AM (4,504 Views)
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Timothy
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Jul 26 2016, 03:26 AM
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Base Goku And Vegeta after Whis training>Peak Goku against Beerus
Goku against Beerus was constantly evolving in power due to the ritual and him being a prodigy and at the end his ki peaked out in base form when he destroyed the sphere of destruction. The strongest ki construct of the fight.
https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/DwyTjqs352E
Now this merge and evolution in power was emphasized to be permanent as Goku said "I'm just me",Beerus said he "merged" with the power and Vegeta said he "evolved".
The whole God of Destruction arc is about surpassing Gokus limits.
"I Never knew a world like this existed" "The super saiyan god power tells me to Keep going higher" "You intend to Keep going above the power of a god"
"He's surpassed super saiyan god,the level of gods"
"You still haven't reached your limit" "Look just because you're a god,Beerus sama,doesn't mean you can put limits on people"
It should also be noted that peak Goku as well as rof Goku are using mortal ki in combat and that god ki is only *accessed in god forms* during combat. https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/9LW9K2x11Ei
Spoiler: click to toggle Two base theory debunk The two base theory aka the dbs new character downplay theory is proven to be very invalid when A) Ssj Goku surpassed ssg and is operating on regular ki B) Base Goku against Rof Freeza was using regular ki in base C) Whenever a character is shifting into god ki Its specifically stated( these theorists are just assuming when for biased purposes) and the only time its been noted is when they go into god form. Meaning Goku and Vegeta never have fought using god ki unless they're in god form( but their mortal forms are op still) When Goku went ssb against freeza it was then noted he was using god ki not a second before meaning he didn't transform from some god ki base that these "theorists" make up. But i Have scans supporting all three of my points https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/jLjT6zMUwoohttps://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/6euAviXB9KTThe Goku that surpassed ssg was using regular ki The Goku that fought rof Freeza was using regular ki The vegeta that killed tagoma( ultimate Gohan tier according to Gohan) was using regular ki The copy vegeta that beat Gotenks was using regular ki The Base Goku that fought Beerus in Monaka Costume was using regular ki These "theorists" can't cite one source indicating they switched to god ki in these instances. You only use god ki in god forms Gokus mortal forms have gotten stronger and operate only on regular kiIf not Then why is it only noted that they're using god ki only when they go god form and not a single second earlier So these "theorists" need to stop pushing their theories as fact *and accept the power inflation* Now let's see more evidence debunking that theory from another well informed individual.. " Topic:Goku (and Vegeta) only have God ki in their SSJG and SSJB forms After Goku revert from SSJG to SSJ, his ki can now be sense by the Z Warriors. Quotes Goten: That's Dad's ki! Piccolo: Wait. If we can sense his ki...it can't be... Whis: Precisely. The fact that you can all sense Son Goku-san's ki...can only mean that he's exceeded the amount of time he can stay as a Super Saiyan God and has reverted to a regular Super Saiyan. Time length 16:57-17:21 Despite reverting to SSJ, Beerus stated Goku kept the SSJG power.[ Vegeta even says he evolves past it and surpassed it] Quote "It seems the Super Saiyan God's power did not disappear, even though time ran out. Rather, it fully merged with, and became apart of, you." SSJ Goku (post God ki)=SSJG Goku Time length 19:42-19:55 Episode 13 link http://kissanime.to/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Super/Episode-013?id=117612When Goku transform into SSJB, Kuririn stated he can't no longer sense Goku's ki. Quote I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now! Time length 20:20-20:23 Before Goku transform, Kuririn compare Goku's fight with Freeza to his fight with Beerus. Meaning Goku is using normal ki in his Base form. Quote This is different from the fight with Beerus...I've got this indescribable sense of genuine horror. Base Goku (ROF)>SSJ Goku(post God ki)SSJG Goku Time length 4:50-4:54 Episode 24 link http://kissanime.to/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Super/Episode-024?id=121199In conclusion Goku (and Vegeta) don't switch their God ki off and on.They remain in the same power as SSJG Goku is at least in their Base forms.All of the opponents they have fought (since the ROF Saga) are fighting SSJG Goku level at least." Credit to +きりしまとうか on Google plus
After the fight ended his gains did not diminish
Rof Base Goku And Vegeta being stronger than Goku against Beerus is not Only supported later by Krillin And Gohan but by Beerus himself https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/GsoFFhbHVXL
Gohan and Krillin state Goku while in base is beyond what he fought Beerus with.
http://i.imgur.com/vdcsNEk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OPQvLNA.png http://i.imgur.com/JHW2cBN.png
And they are referring to Peak Goku against Beerus as they sensed that.
http://i.imgur.com/jdfckkr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3UVzwRz.jpg This is supported By Gohan Krillin and Beerus himself.
https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/PsounDeUYoB Even in Toyotaros Rof manga its portrayed that rof base Goku is on par or beyond himself against Beerus
Base Goku fights Monaka Costume Beerus, and Beerus enjoys the fight in episode 42. This would further support he is on par with himself against Beerus or beyond as Beerus was not finger flicking him away( what happened to ss3 pre god goku) or clawing at his heart(the fate pre zenkai ssg goku suffered)
http://i.imgur.com/39kBIn4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pf1yqeo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/obDHCHt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nIY13IJ.jpg http://imgur.com/B8IX9Y9.jpg http://imgur.com/mPMyX3G.jpg
https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/1jSfdM699R5 Base Copy Vegeta easily dominated ss3 Gotenks, a super boo level enemy, further validation that base goku and Vegeta are ssg tier.
And Vegeta kills Tagoma an ultimate Gohan tier enemy(bare minimum) https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/EfQ1Wa4kwxy https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/UbBZoP1YiiU
With ease.
There is far too much evidence for this to be denied
Now time to address the reason why ppl have been pushing downplaying theories.
Frost
Spoiler: click to toggle Frost is essentially a Freeza that's constantly in combat that doesnt have the luxury of a evolution such as the golden form to make him Ssb tier. Now Assault Frost proved to be equal to or greater than rof final form Freeza by stalemating base Goku. His final form seems higher than rof final form freeza
Cabba
Spoiler: click to toggle Now if base Cabba really does equal base Vegeta it doesnt mean base Vegeta is weak. Quit placing caps on characters whom you Have no backstory on. Cabba is from another evolved saiyan race. Its noted that universe 6 Saiyans are evolved to the point where they don't need tails or an oozaru form anymore. And that they are in constant combat. Now why would the universe 6 saiyan representative for the tournament chosen by Vados be weak. He's introduced to us as a prodigy whom Vegeta told could one day surpass him.
Piccolo
Spoiler: click to toggle Now Piccolo briefly trained with Gohan. We know this Gohan is likely stronger than ultimate Gohan in z due to Tagomas power and Gohan wanting to test out his gains in the tournament, unfortunately he was busy with work. Ppl think Gohan needs to break character and turn into a sadist or he's fodder sadly. Piccolo obviously made high gains as his special beam cannon destroyed the same barrier champas blast didnt destroy to champas dismay "my super strong barrier!" and "I'd be humiliated if that got destroyed in a match" all prove that this is a very impressive feat. Piccolo surviving Hits from Frost doesnt make Frost weak whatsoever.
Trunks
Spoiler: click to toggle Now we don't know how seriously Goku took his match with trunks but if trunks is over base goku it makes sense and heres why. Trunks is essentially what a battle orientated Gohan would be. Hybrid potential is hyped up constantly since the saiyan saga. After Gohan and Goten train for the boo saga tournament in z Gohan after talk about trunks and goten tells Goten that him and trunks have potential like with his own and that one day they could surpass him. Too bad the present timeline hybrids aren't in combat or constantly training. But oh will you look at future trunks. Prior to Blacks invasion he was already a ss2. Since then he's been fighting Black for a whole year. Toryama in the bog interview emphasized how saiyans improve via combat and we seen the ridiculous gains Freeza made in 4 months and the gains Vegeta made in 6 months with Whis. Maggetta Hit and Botamo are unique special cases as well.
We've seen ridiculous gains in dbz plenty of times
Did it make sense when kid goten and trunks proved to be mssj tier? Or when Piccolo went from below nappa to over nail in a few days Or when Krillin and goku surpassed bodb oozaru goku from farming and other meager training tactics Or when Freeza became ssb+ tier from torturing tagoma for months Etc.
Peak Goku( against Beerus)tier to dbs is essentially like how planetary is to z. A new impressive benchmark introduced in the beginning that soon becomes a constantly surpassed standard. New series new scaling. Stop the denial,theories,etc.
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Jul 26 2016, 12:29 PM
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滅Are you frightened?
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Part of me agrees with this tbh.
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lazerbem
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Jul 26 2016, 03:01 PM
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Explain to me then how base Goku can hold his own against Hit despite Bluper Vegeta getting thrashed. Remember that SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 still exist, so at the very minimum, we're talking a 400x difference, and that's assuming Bluper is equal to SSJ3 when it's likely higher.
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Jul 26 2016, 03:09 PM
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魔王子
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Well, Goku's performance against Hit can be explained by Hit holding back further as not to kill Goku, but yeah, the whole ordeal with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 certainly makes a case for the "2-base theory". Frankly, I don't know why people are so dead set against the idea. Why don't we all just wait until we're given enough information before we embrace or deny the idea?
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Jul 26 2016, 05:25 PM
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滅Are you frightened?
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If Goku merged with Super Saiyan God, couldn't he just manifest it through Super Saiyan giving him Blue? Like I see it like this: base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and to go further he emits God ki in his Super Saiyan form thus Super Saiyan Blue.
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 Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu
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Judau Ashtha
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Jul 26 2016, 05:44 PM
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@If Goku merged with Super Saiyan God, couldn't he just manifest it through Super Saiyan giving him Blue? Like I see it like this: base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and to go further he emits God ki in his Super Saiyan form thus Super Saiyan Blue.
Huh, So, basically the two-base theory?
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Jul 26 2016, 07:07 PM
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滅Are you frightened?
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- Judau Ashtha
- Jul 26 2016, 05:44 PM
@If Goku merged with Super Saiyan God, couldn't he just manifest it through Super Saiyan giving him Blue? Like I see it like this: base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, and to go further he emits God ki in his Super Saiyan form thus Super Saiyan Blue.
Huh, So, basically the two-base theory? No not the two base Theory. I am saying Super Saiyan Blue has the god ki and ONLY it.
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Judau Ashtha
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Jul 26 2016, 08:45 PM
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@No not the two base Theory. I am saying Super Saiyan Blue has the god ki and ONLY it.
Okay. But then, according to this line,
@..and to go further he emits God ki in his Super Saiyan form thus Super Saiyan Blue
wouldn't this mean that he has the ability to use God ki whenever he wants i.e he can turn it on or off?. Or in your own words has the ability to either "emit it out" or not "emit it out"?
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Timothy
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Jul 26 2016, 09:57 PM
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- lazerbem
- Jul 26 2016, 03:01 PM
Explain to me then how base Goku can hold his own against Hit despite Bluper Vegeta getting thrashed. Remember that SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 still exist, so at the very minimum, we're talking a 400x difference, and that's assuming Bluper is equal to SSJ3 when it's likely higher. Hit adjusts his bp to not kill ppl champ. Unless you really think base goku>ssb Vegeta
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Timothy
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Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Jul 26 2016, 03:09 PM
Well, Goku's performance against Hit can be explained by Hit holding back further as not to kill Goku, but yeah, the whole ordeal with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 certainly makes a case for the "2-base theory". Frankly, I don't know why people are so dead set against the idea. Why don't we all just wait until we're given enough information before we embrace or deny the idea? I gave far more than enough evidence to destroy that theory completely. In every case base goku showed ssg tier feats he was using regular ki. Whenever god ki os used its in god form and not a second later. Anyway this is all in my two base theory debunk.
That theory is more dead than dinosaurs
@Judai when they emit god ki they seemingly automatically go ssb. Regardless the feats we've seen from mortal form Goku are on regular ki
Edited by Timothy, Jul 26 2016, 10:03 PM.
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Jul 26 2016, 10:04 PM
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魔王子
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- Timothy
- Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Jul 26 2016, 03:09 PM
Well, Goku's performance against Hit can be explained by Hit holding back further as not to kill Goku, but yeah, the whole ordeal with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 certainly makes a case for the "2-base theory". Frankly, I don't know why people are so dead set against the idea. Why don't we all just wait until we're given enough information before we embrace or deny the idea?
I gave far more than enough evidence to destroy that theory completely. In every case base goku showed ssg tier feats he was using regular ki. Whenever god ki os used its in god form and not a second later. Anyway this is all in my two base theory debunk. That theory is more dead than dinosaurs You really didn't tho. Once gain, I'd hold off on critiquing the idea until we have more information. What'll happen if it's revealed that Piccolo isn't much stronger than his Golden Freeza arc self? You'd pretty much have to fall back on the theory.
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Timothy
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Jul 27 2016, 02:01 AM
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Jul 26 2016, 10:04 PM
- Timothy
- Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Jul 26 2016, 03:09 PM
Well, Goku's performance against Hit can be explained by Hit holding back further as not to kill Goku, but yeah, the whole ordeal with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 certainly makes a case for the "2-base theory". Frankly, I don't know why people are so dead set against the idea. Why don't we all just wait until we're given enough information before we embrace or deny the idea?
I gave far more than enough evidence to destroy that theory completely. In every case base goku showed ssg tier feats he was using regular ki. Whenever god ki os used its in god form and not a second later. Anyway this is all in my two base theory debunk. That theory is more dead than dinosaurs
You really didn't tho. Once gain, I'd hold off on critiquing the idea until we have more information. What'll happen if it's revealed that Piccolo isn't much stronger than his Golden Freeza arc self? You'd pretty much have to fall back on the theory. Hilarious champ. Then that'll mean that his sbc multiplier is op now still broke Champa barrier
Spoiler: click to toggle Two base theory debunk The two base theory aka the dbs new character downplay theory is proven to be very invalid when A) Ssj Goku surpassed ssg and is operating on regular ki B) Base Goku against Rof Freeza was using regular ki in base C) Whenever a character is shifting into god ki Its specifically stated( these theorists are just assuming when for biased purposes) and the only time its been noted is when they go into god form. Meaning Goku and Vegeta never have fought using god ki unless they're in god form( but their mortal forms are op still) When Goku went ssb against freeza it was then noted he was using god ki not a second before meaning he didn't transform from some god ki base that these "theorists" make up. But i Have scans supporting all three of my points https://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/jLjT6zMUwoohttps://plus.google.com/111592428874553488335/posts/6euAviXB9KTThe Goku that surpassed ssg was using regular ki The Goku that fought rof Freeza was using regular ki The vegeta that killed tagoma( ultimate Gohan tier according to Gohan) was using regular ki The copy vegeta that beat Gotenks was using regular ki The Base Goku that fought Beerus in Monaka Costume was using regular ki These "theorists" can't cite one source indicating they switched to god ki in these instances. You only use god ki in god forms Gokus mortal forms have gotten stronger and operate only on regular kiIf not Then why is it only noted that they're using god ki only when they go god form and not a single second earlier So these "theorists" need to stop pushing their theories as fact *and accept the power inflation* Now let's see more evidence debunking that theory from another well informed individual.. " Topic:Goku (and Vegeta) only have God ki in their SSJG and SSJB forms After Goku revert from SSJG to SSJ, his ki can now be sense by the Z Warriors. Quotes Goten: That's Dad's ki! Piccolo: Wait. If we can sense his ki...it can't be... Whis: Precisely. The fact that you can all sense Son Goku-san's ki...can only mean that he's exceeded the amount of time he can stay as a Super Saiyan God and has reverted to a regular Super Saiyan. Time length 16:57-17:21 Despite reverting to SSJ, Beerus stated Goku kept the SSJG power.[ Vegeta even says he evolves past it and surpassed it] Quote "It seems the Super Saiyan God's power did not disappear, even though time ran out. Rather, it fully merged with, and became apart of, you." SSJ Goku (post God ki)=SSJG Goku Time length 19:42-19:55 Episode 13 link http://kissanime.to/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Super/Episode-013?id=117612When Goku transform into SSJB, Kuririn stated he can't no longer sense Goku's ki. Quote I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now! Time length 20:20-20:23 Before Goku transform, Kuririn compare Goku's fight with Freeza to his fight with Beerus. Meaning Goku is using normal ki in his Base form. Quote This is different from the fight with Beerus...I've got this indescribable sense of genuine horror. Base Goku (ROF)>SSJ Goku(post God ki)SSJG Goku Time length 4:50-4:54 Episode 24 link http://kissanime.to/Anime/Dragon-Ball-Super/Episode-024?id=121199In conclusion Goku (and Vegeta) don't switch their God ki off and on.They remain in the same power as SSJG Goku is at least in their Base forms.All of the opponents they have fought (since the ROF Saga) are fighting SSJG Goku level at least." Credit to +きりしまとうか on Google plus
That theory is dead and the most unsubstantiated contradicted widespread thing in db.
Now cite one single time one time in dbs where goku makes His base form use god ki to fight someone.... You cant because it never happened. Never
Almost 40 episodes since Goku evolved and not one single instance is this headcannon "god ki base" present
Edited by Timothy, Jul 27 2016, 02:03 AM.
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Jul 27 2016, 12:42 PM
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魔王子
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A stronger Makankosappo wouldn't explain his performance. I can't cite an example of Goku using God Ki in base because it's pure speculation. I'll concede it's a point of contention, but then, we can't really be sure he isn't using God Ki in base, especially when you consider how ambiguous Super is about everything. EDIT: Oh, and Goku doesn't necessarily have to have God Ki in his base form for a variation of the 2-base theory to exist.
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Timothy
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Jul 27 2016, 10:19 PM
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
- Jul 27 2016, 12:42 PM
A stronger Makankosappo wouldn't explain his performance. I can't cite an example of Goku using God Ki in base because it's pure speculation. I'll concede it's a point of contention, but then, we can't really be sure he isn't using God Ki in base, especially when you consider how ambiguous Super is about everything. EDIT: Oh, and Goku doesn't necessarily have to have God Ki in his base form for a variation of the 2-base theory to exist. Its been confirmed Goku in these instances is using regular ki by sensing statements. Then what's your variation of this theory
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Jul 27 2016, 10:49 PM
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魔王子
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There's a train of thought out there that Goku chooses to use his standard base state and his Saiyan Beyond God state.
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