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how strong is goku's base really ?
Topic Started: Jul 25 2016, 11:47 AM (5,575 Views)
highwaysaiyan
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according to what i understand, Saiyan Beyond God is a sort of transformation that increases the power to the power of ssg and gaining a white aura. base form is without an aura, that is unless they power up (which they get a blue aura/red/purple/whatever depending on the race) so it should have tremendously lower power.
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Thiln
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Gohan's calculated power level before the rage induced attack was 710. It was more of a 1.84x increase (his power level during the headbutt was estimated to be 1307). Looking at the post-exertion Gohan's PL then comparing it to his rage state would be similar to Vegeta estimating Gohan's increase to 2800 by using his post-angry state as the point of reference instead of his pre-Masenko power level.

It seems obvious that Beerus's power was originally intended to be far more leveled when he was conceived as a villain. It was only after the show was greenlighted for a continuation after the two movie arcs plus Toriyama's lack of intent to have Goku and Vegeta surpass Beerus for the foreseeable future that his power became so inflated to the current point where he's standing. Being retrospectively consistent with past statements and feats hasn't exactly been Toriyama's strongsuit anyway.
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Judau Ashtha
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@What the hell kind of rage boost did Vegeta get to push Beerus to 10% of his power? The only explanation is he was flat-out lying.

Huh, I don't know but have you ever thought that Beerus probably used/meant 10% of his suppressed power/displaying power and not his actual full power? Have you ever thought that maybe Beerus probably never even used his full suppressed power/displaying power, let alone is actual real full power, in the first place even while fighting SSG Goku?
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Why would Beerus be talking about his suppressed power? If his suppressed power is, say, 10% of his full power, and he was actually talking about using a percentage of his suppressed power, why wouldn't he claim that he was pushed to using 1% of his full power? The introduction of him talking about percentages of his suppressed power makes no sense whatsoever.
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+ Pyrus
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Thiln
Jul 25 2016, 08:01 PM
Gohan's calculated power level before the rage induced attack was 710. It was more of a 1.84x increase (his power level during the headbutt was estimated to be 1307). Looking at the post-exertion Gohan's PL then comparing it to his rage state would be similar to Vegeta estimating Gohan's increase to 2800 by using his post-angry state as the point of reference instead of his pre-Masenko power level.

It seems obvious that Beerus's power was originally intended to be far more leveled when he was conceived as a villain. It was only after the show was greenlighted for a continuation after the two movie arcs plus Toriyama's lack of intent to have Goku and Vegeta surpass Beerus for the foreseeable future that his power became so inflated to the current point where he's standing. Being retrospectively consistent with past statements and feats hasn't exactly been Toriyama's strongsuit anyway.
I thought Gohan was already getting rather angry by the time his 710 level was read.
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Judau Ashtha
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@Why would Beerus be talking about his suppressed power? If his suppressed power is, say, 10% of his full power, and he was actually talking about using a percentage of his suppressed power, why wouldn't he claim that he was pushed to using 1% of his full power? The introduction of him talking about percentages of his suppressed power makes no sense whatsoever.

Because he is not a novice or a fool to reveal/give an idea about what his full power is and/or go full power against an opponent who is much much weaker than him. If you want to stay in the "game" you have to learn to never reveal all your cards at once otherwise your nothing but a fool for giving away the thesis on how to defeat and exploit you.
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Timothy
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SbG isnt really a form. Its what dbh named Goku and Vegeta after Whis training in rof that made them surpass orb equal ssj in base. They still operate solely on regular ki in mortal forms. Meaning ssg has been left in the past.

Base Goku and Vegeta>=ssg against beerus is confirmed by Beerus himself,Krillin,Gohan,copy vegeta vs gotenks and the monaka costume fight.

And piccolo is low god tier from his sbc feat
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Timothy
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Nagito Komaeda
Jul 25 2016, 09:06 PM
Why would Beerus be talking about his suppressed power? If his suppressed power is, say, 10% of his full power, and he was actually talking about using a percentage of his suppressed power, why wouldn't he claim that he was pushed to using 1% of his full power? The introduction of him talking about percentages of his suppressed power makes no sense whatsoever.
Bro. If Beerus even did use "near 10%" that amount of power was used to tank his strongest blast and finger flick him. Its also proven to be a mistake as evidenced in Goku and Vegeta base improvement and ssbkkx10.
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CameronBZH
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The way I see it Goku and Vegeta's power can work in 2 ways depending on whether they tap into their god powers or not... Super is ambiguous for sure however as someone else said.

Goku:
Base>SSJ>SSJ2>SSJ3
or...
Base> Saiyan Beyond God> SSJ God

Vegeta:
Base>SSJ>SSJ2 (And probably SSJ3)
or...
Base> Saiyan beyond God > SSJ God

Edited by CameronBZH, Jul 26 2016, 11:18 AM.
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Timothy
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CameronBZH
Jul 26 2016, 11:17 AM
The way I see it Goku and Vegeta's power can work in 2 ways depending on whether they tap into their god powers or not... Super is ambiguous for sure however as someone else said.

Goku:
Base>SSJ>SSJ2>SSJ3
or...
Base> Saiyan Beyond God> SSJ God

Vegeta:
Base>SSJ>SSJ2 (And probably SSJ3)
or...
Base> Saiyan beyond God > SSJ God

Son you gone have to give me one good scan and reason on why Goku ssj forms would be weaker than his base. When Whis himself confirms ssj still multiplies their power.
Man this is out of hand

Ssb>mortal forms>ep 14 Goku

Ssg is just a multiplier anyway

Ssj forms>base forms
Fact
Rof Goku>Goku against Beerus
Fact
That Goku had regular ki
Fact

Assumption that Goku ssj forms are somehow weaker than his base
Unsubstantiated and directly contradicted
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Thiln
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Pyrus
Jul 25 2016, 09:52 PM
Thiln
Jul 25 2016, 08:01 PM
Gohan's calculated power level before the rage induced attack was 710. It was more of a 1.84x increase (his power level during the headbutt was estimated to be 1307). Looking at the post-exertion Gohan's PL then comparing it to his rage state would be similar to Vegeta estimating Gohan's increase to 2800 by using his post-angry state as the point of reference instead of his pre-Masenko power level.

It seems obvious that Beerus's power was originally intended to be far more leveled when he was conceived as a villain. It was only after the show was greenlighted for a continuation after the two movie arcs plus Toriyama's lack of intent to have Goku and Vegeta surpass Beerus for the foreseeable future that his power became so inflated to the current point where he's standing. Being retrospectively consistent with past statements and feats hasn't exactly been Toriyama's strongsuit anyway.
I thought Gohan was already getting rather angry by the time his 710 level was read.
Was it anger or fear? Anger is consistently the motivating drive for him, but I suppose fear could also engender a power spiked reaction as well.
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highwaysaiyan
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i mentioned before, the auras clearly show there is a difference between the base form and the sbg form.
just because he doesnt look different, it doesnt mean there is no change.

---------------------------------------------------------------


you people are talking about beerus as if he is just like anyone else.
he is NOT like anyone else, he is a higher being. he lives outside of the cosmos and does not work by the same rules those who live in it.
he does not have hidden power, and even if he does, he uses his power as according to what he needs to in order to do his job or to overpower his enemies. he will never use his full power on a lower being like goku because there is no need to (and if he does, he might destroy the entire universe).
and he wont use his full power not because he likes to play with him or because he cares about the universe. he wont use it because he isnt built that way. he was probably created to be the god of destruction and thats the way he works.
take for example whis and vados. they alone can overpower almost everyone, even if banded together, and yet they are still serving the gods and are considered on a lower level. why ? because that is the way they were created. their power exist probably for the only purpose to make sure the gods above them wont go berserk.
Edited by highwaysaiyan, Jul 27 2016, 12:53 PM.
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CameronBZH
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Timothy
Jul 27 2016, 02:13 AM
on you gone have to give me one good scan and reason on why Goku ssj forms would be weaker than his base. When Whis himself confirms ssj still multiplies their power.
Man this is out of hand



Yeah sorry I botched that post right up, that was meant to be increasing order. As in base was the weakest my bad
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Timothy
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highwaysaiyan
Jul 27 2016, 12:47 PM
i mentioned before, the auras clearly show there is a difference between the base form and the sbg form.
just because he doesnt look different, it doesnt mean there is no change.

---------------------------------------------------------------


you people are talking about beerus as if he is just like anyone else.
he is NOT like anyone else, he is a higher being. he lives outside of the cosmos and does not work by the same rules those who live in it.
he does not have hidden power, and even if he does, he uses his power as according to what he needs to in order to do his job or to overpower his enemies. he will never use his full power on a lower being like goku because there is no need to (and if he does, he might destroy the entire universe).
and he wont use his full power not because he likes to play with him or because he cares about the universe. he wont use it because he isnt built that way. he was probably created to be the god of destruction and thats the way he works.
take for example whis and vados. they alone can overpower almost everyone, even if banded together, and yet they are still serving the gods and are considered on a lower level. why ? because that is the way they were created. their power exist probably for the only purpose to make sure the gods above them wont go berserk.
Bruh
That white aura has literally been on almost everybody before. Man the wiki is really messing ppl up
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