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how strong is goku's base really ?
Topic Started: Jul 25 2016, 11:47 AM (5,574 Views)
highwaysaiyan
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i find out something i didnt know before. goku and vegeta fought frieza as Saiyan Beyond God (white aura form). so we never saw their base against extreme powers like frieza.
im guessing they used that form as well in the U6 tournament, but because of inconsistencies (like in DBZ ssj2 and 3 without electricity), i cant be certain.
so how strong are they really in their base form (normal aura and normal hair)?
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Thiln
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Stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks since that purple ooze monster who stole Base Vegeta's power was easily beating him, and Vegeta is about on-par with Goku when SSJBKKx10 isn't being used. Last we saw Base Goku is still weaker than Assault Form Frost, however. By extension that would include Piccolo who seemed to be holding his own against final form Frost (exhausted), a being whom Vegeta needed to transform in order to defeat apparently.
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Wong Lee
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As a Saiyan Beyond God(i.e their max base power) their base states are apparently stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. This is of course assuming that Gotenks hasn't gotten weak post Z. And without the Saiyan Beyond God power I guess they are roughly a bit more stronger than their base states in Z, post Kid Buu fight.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. That's all we really know. Super is so god damn ambiguous about everything, it's impossible to tell.
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+ Pyrus
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Wait, so now Piccolo is stronger than SS3 Gotenks? That's hilarious yet I approve at the same time.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. It all depends on how much power Goku and Vegeta were using during the tournament.
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Thiln
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Power levels are so inflated and inconsistent that it wouldn't surprise me. I largely base the idea off Piccolo performing relatively well against Frost when the two Saiyans seemingly needed to use SSJ to gain an advantage over him.
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lazerbem
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Super is a tremendous mess now because of the incident where Goku goes SSJ2 and SSJ3 against Trunks. Even if we use the manga explanation that Vegeta's Bluper Saiyan was only at 10% full power, this makes no sense. Goku was doing better in base than Bluper Vegeta was, despite SSJ2 and SSJ3 apparently still existing as rather significant boosts.
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Thiln
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This all really started back in BoG when Vegeta was somehow able to siphon away Gohan's defining niche for no reason whatsoever. With the precedent established it's only been going downhill since with things like Beerus's "10%" comment (Goku should have already surpassed both him and Whis by the previous arc if that statement held true), Frieza's two recent henchmen somehow growing strong enough to pose a threat to the humans (let alone Piccolo or the Saiyans), Frieza himself jumping through a few dimensions just to conveniently land next to the God tier protagonists, Roshi posing a threat of any kind to Frieza's army while Yamcha and Chiaotzu are relegated to the spectators' booth, Gohan being incapable of maintaining Super Saiyan when a longer timeskip already transpired with him still in functioning condition, and ect. Then there's what you mentioned, lazerbem, about the tangled mess the U6 tournament brought about when it decided to bring back standard Super Saiyan forms.
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Slifer
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I don't know what to make of it.

We have Base Goku and Vegeta being far above SSJ3 Gotenks. They were on par with final form Freeza, which is around 226x stronger than his first form, which was above SSJ Gohan and perhaps SSJ Gotenks.

Then we learn they can still use SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Using SEG multipliers, that should put SSJ3 Goku at no less than 1000x SSJ3 Gotenks, and that's being conservative. Then who the hell knows the multiplier from SSJ3 to SSJB. Then 10x that with Kaioken, then Beerus is still likely even higher than that. What the hell kind of rage boost did Vegeta get to push Beerus to 10% of his power? The only explanation is he was flat-out lying.
Edited by Slifer, Jul 25 2016, 05:51 PM.
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Wong Lee
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@We have Base Goku and Vegeta being far above SSJ3 Gotenks

I think it's only when Goku and Vegeta are in the Saiyan Beyond God State. If they are using their normal base state then their base power is what they had post Kid Buu fight(and barring the timeskip) or maybe slightly stronger than that.
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Slifer
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Wong Lee
Jul 25 2016, 06:00 PM

I think it's only when Goku and Vegeta are in the Saiyan Beyond God State.
But where does that leave the regular SSJ forms? Can they only use them when using normal Base? If so when what's the point? They'd be better off using Base with God-ki considering it's way more powerful and offers betters stamina.

I haven't seen anything to suggests there's actually two separate Base forms. Couldn't Goku and Vegeta just be heavily suppressed during times they're fighting someone in Base/SSJ forms that they should easily be wreck?
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Wong Lee
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@Can they only use them when using normal Base?

It's possible.

@They'd be better off using Base with God-ki considering it's way more powerful and offers betters stamina.

I guess they want an even fight. Maybe the universe 6 fighter barring Hit are not god tired but rather Z tier(i.e Freiza Arc ~ Buu Arc)? I mean Goku and Vegeta are seasoned fighters. They are not going to go full out just like that against their opponents without first getting to know their opponents capabilities completely. This is especially true for Goku. It's also called "Testing the Water".

@I haven't seen anything to suggests there's actually two separate Base forms

It's not about having two separate forms but it's more like using a "different/stronger" Ki compared to the normal Ki.

@Couldn't Goku and Vegeta just be heavily suppressed during times they're fighting someone in Base/SSJ forms that they should easily be wreck?

That's the other possibility. Which is also possible.
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Jul 25 2016, 05:50 PM
I don't know what to make of it.

We have Base Goku and Vegeta being far above SSJ3 Gotenks. They were on par with final form Freeza, which is around 226x stronger than his first form, which was above SSJ Gohan and perhaps SSJ Gotenks.

Then we learn they can still use SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Using SEG multipliers, that should put SSJ3 Goku at no less than 1000x SSJ3 Gotenks, and that's being conservative. Then who the hell knows the multiplier from SSJ3 to SSJB. Then 10x that with Kaioken, then Beerus is still likely even higher than that. What the hell kind of rage boost did Vegeta get to push Beerus to 10% of his power? The only explanation is he was flat-out lying.
That puts any rage boost Gohan ever got to shame, including his 1,000x+ one he got against Raditz.
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highwaysaiyan
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according to what i understand, Saiyan Beyond God is a sort of transformation that increases the power to the power of ssg and gaining a white aura. base form is without an aura, that is unless they power up (which they get a blue aura/red/purple/whatever depending on the race) so it should have tremendously lower power.
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