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| Things GT does better than Super? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 21 2016, 01:39 PM (2,281 Views) | |
| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jul 21 2016, 02:36 PM Post #16 |
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Those are incredibly shallow comparisons though. 1. Yes, he a Tsufurian machine, but that's where the comparisons end. 2. I don't see how being a machine makes him similar to the Artificial Humans. 3. But why does he want revenge? The villains in the franchise who want revenge never had legitimate beef. Bebi is the first bad guy who's been genuinely wronged, and now he wants retribution. 4. Well, Boo takes in other people, and Bebi possess other people, but yeah, similar I suppose. What makes this more effective though is the creep factor. Pan being confronted by her own parents is a scary thing. |
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 02:38 PM Post #17 |
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Yeah all good points. Idk though I just get really sick of these villains who don't use their own powers to fight. Cell, Buu, and Baby are all like that. I admit though that was original that Baby was able to take over the entire human population like that. Was there anything in my first post that you wanted to comment on? |
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| lazerbem | Jul 21 2016, 02:49 PM Post #18 |
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I like Baby as a villain because at times, you can see the fact that he does genuinely care about his people and how traumatized the Saiyans have him, which does make him a sort of tragic character. He completely freaks out in fear when he sees the Golden Ape and he's horrified by the idea of becoming one at first, rightfully so given that transforming into one kind of drove him insane. What's more is that everyone under his control does act the same way, just loyal to him. We see stuff like Gohan and Videl mentioning how they'll plead with Baby to spare Pan's life and make her a Tuffle as well as Krillin acting the same way back on Earth with 18 and Marron. And yes, he has a legitimate reason to be angry as well. Also, I think it's kind of awesome how he interacts with Bulma
Edited by lazerbem, Jul 21 2016, 02:51 PM.
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 02:50 PM Post #19 |
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He didn't care that much. He knowingly attacked them as a Great Ape and he shot a Galick Gun towards the planet. Edit: Yeah he showed his respect to Bulma by shoving her out of his way and leaving her behind. He's a real gentlemen alright. Edited by Son-Goku, Jul 21 2016, 03:07 PM.
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| EMIYA | Jul 21 2016, 02:51 PM Post #20 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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DBZ villains are too one dimensional and the same can be said for most of the villains there. Bebi actually had some dept as a villain, even if he was technically a more complex version of Raichi/Hatchyack. The only villain before or after that had any distinctive depth as Fat Boo. He wasn't evil for the sake of being evil but the way his character was brought up. He was unique and even developed as a character with Mr. Satan. But they changed that to Super Boo and he became a typical villain that we've seen all the time then became Kid Boo with absolutely no depth. Though I'll give enough credit that also thought Kid Boo is uninspired as a character, it was something relatively new to the manga at the time. We've had many arrogant villains but it was one of the first time we a villain who was instinctively insane and acted more as a force of nature than an intelligent villain. Either way things GT did better. 1.) Better Animation and fluidity. Super is so stiff and its been like that the whole time. While GT has yet to reach something like Boo Saga level's of animation, I feel much more movement and fluidity in GT than I've ever felt with Super and that goes the same with models too. There are too many cases where Super is off model that I've just not noticed with GT and probably even with GT compared to the original series. 2.) Better music. I don't think GT's music is even that great but really I still remember "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" over anything in Super. 3.) Goku really is a far better character indeed. Even if a lot of focus is put on him, he's far more likable. He's an actual hero, which despite what Toriyama thinks, is exactly how he was built up throughout the story (Pre-Boo Arc) so here he gets to act like a legitimate hero who you can root for and isn't the man-child he is in Super. Plus Goku still has to work hard for his victories. He often has to take several beatings, and even get help along the way. He had to struggle to defeat people like Baby Vegeta, Super 17 and Super Yi Xing Long, all of which gave him the fight of his life in each round. In Super his battle with Beerus is nothing short of just a exhibition match...in which he kills billions of lives across the universe. The only reason he has any trouble with Freeza is because he's too stupid to work with Vegeta and the U6 Tournament is just...a tournament really. 4.) Far less plotholes and inconsistencies. We've actually done this before. We've tried to ask people so many times where are GT's plotholes and inconsistencies and how do they compare with Super. And while people can make huge lists on Super's contradictions, people often find themselves loss of words to find much on GT. 5.) Besides Super 17 Saga, which thankfully is short, GT is original in is content. Some people may not like the Black Star Dragon Ball Arc, but goodness it at least started us off with some originality here. For 30 episodes...minus a little for filler and stuff...we had to watch the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. movies. But instead of giving them depth, new angels and stuff. We got the poor man's version. if I want to watch Battle of Gods, I'll watch the movie. Even today the most hardcore Super fans look at the Golden Freeza Saga and are like...wow...this was painful. --- --- In the end, GT isn't even good. It may not even be average. But you know what, it's a 20+ year old series from the mid 90s and it did what it had to do. I think you can definitely look at GT and tell Toei Animation loved the series and wanted to do more. And while they could have definitely thrown in some half-assed vanilla villains out with no depth. They made a story with characters and even gave it a great ending. If it wasn't for the fact that Super hasn't ended yet I'd put that as another one, GT's superior ending. I hate Super because we know both Toei Animation and Toriyama can create some very good work. They can make some amazing animation and can write some spectacular stories with great characters. instead it is painfully clear this is a money grabbing thing and effort has been at the absolute bare minimum when its come to this series. You can always tell when effort is shown. You can always tell when respect and love is given to the series. Considering how complex GT could get at times, you could tell those in Toei were having a fun time. What do we get in Super? Some mad fanfiction where Frog Ginyu changes body with who the f*** cares Togama, gaining powers that surpass even the likes of Super Namek PIccolo only to get Photoshopped by Vegeta. |
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| lazerbem | Jul 21 2016, 02:51 PM Post #21 |
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@SSBardock84 Yes, the Oozaru transformation made a huge whiplash in behavior with him. Either he was lying about the instincts not affecting him, or being made into an ape made him snap. Either way, it's a marked change in behavior from earlier, where he tells some of his subjects to get out of the way so they won't get hurt. Edited by lazerbem, Jul 21 2016, 02:52 PM.
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 02:55 PM Post #22 |
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That's true. I think it was just as his battle progressed he started just caring less and less. He also knew how much the people of Earth meant to Goku and he'd do anything to get Goku angry and upset. |
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| + ThePrinceOfSaiyans | Jul 21 2016, 02:56 PM Post #23 |
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Yeah, I'll get on that. -I honestly don't think I've heard anyone take this position. Why do you think that? I personally think going back to the roots of the Oozaru was genius, which is why I'm so fond of Super Saiyan 4. -True, but knowing how it'll all end leaves me less invested than I would otherwise be. Eh, I don't know about that. Beerus's mere existence is questionable in that "oh, he's existed for millions of years, he just sleeps really often." It's kinda dumb, but his character is interesting enough to make up for that I suppose. As for Freeza, him coming back, training for 4 months, and exceeding everything everyone has done is entirely nonsensical. Don't even get me started on Tagoma. -When was the last time you watched GT, out of curiosity, and did you watch in Japanese, because that's the real kicker. GT is much better in it's original language. I'm fond of Trunks, Pan, GT Goku and even Giru. And I here all the time that Goku becoming a kid was annoying, but what exactly does that take away? Goku's always been a kid. All this really does is make him smaller, and even provides him with limitations, which raise the stakes. All Gohan does is Super is get his a*** kicked, and actually, Gohan had a pretty decent fight against Bebi Goten. Vegeta had his time to shine, but the thing is, this is merely a continuation of what he said during Goku's fight with Pure Boo. The writers aren't backpedaling in this instance like they are with Super. Goku and Vegeta being on the same level is nice and all, but in so doing, they've made Vegeta obsessed with Kakarotto again, which is most certainly a regression for his character, and his character is what I'm most concerned with. I've accepted that Vegeta isn't mean to be Kakarotto's equal or superior, much like he himself has. Piccolo's moment against Frost was neat and all, but that's the thing, it's one moment. We see Piccolo kickin' a*** and takin' names in Hell in GT. -Why was his death in Super superior? It was used as a catylist for Gohan wanting to train again, but that plot point was discarded entirely, making that entire scene, which is inconsistent in the sense that there's no reason Piccolo couldn't have regenerated, pointless. -GT Goku is just Goku, for the most part. -Vegeta's character was not disgraced in the slightest because it was a natural progression. And I wouldn't say he's treated like garbage. He has his moments, and even if I were to agree that he was treated like garbage, that wouldn't change the fact that his character is well written. Yes, Vegeta is doing things in Super, and I appreciate that, but more often than not feels like a caricature of himself. |
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 03:05 PM Post #24 |
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-I definitley agree Super Saiyan 4 was a good concept, I'm not disagreeing with you there. It really was a pretty good idea in my opinion. I just prefer the god transformations as a whole. While I hate having multiple kinds of gods and things like god ki I still prefer the transformations. I liked that they still are similar to the original transformation and nothing new. That's just me though. -Yeah the Frieza part was eh, I think it would have made more sense though if he waited a year or more for training. But it doesn't overly bother me. Tagoma should not have gotten that strong tbh though, unless his race has major potential. -I've only watched the FUNimation dubbed to be honest and it's been about half a year since I've watched it. What mainly bothers me about Goku being a kid is that we don't see him as an adult. That's what most people want and he doesn't get to retain a lot of his skills like Instant Transmission and can't even keep Super Saiyan 3 going. I don't find him nearly as annoying as Goku in Super though, he's bearable but I still would have preffered an adult Goku. I like Gohan getting beat up all of the time, he is way too overrated. Vegeta trains insanely and will always find a way to come to Goku's level, that's something that should never change. |
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| EMIYA | Jul 21 2016, 03:13 PM Post #25 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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GT Vegeta was easily the most matured version of the character ever. He has such an human interaction that we've barely seen before. the whole training thing and being stronger still remains but it doesn't overtake his mind. Instead it's like a hobby that he does on the side and leaves more time for other things. What does he do in GT? He somehow gets himself a driving license, is rather good at it and takes his on daughter shopping. He gets upset when a bunch of thugs start harassing his daughter. When he shaves his epic stache, I love how classy he looks. He's just like "Hey guys, notice anything different?" with a classy smile on his face. He actually tells Goku to do fusion with him. He, Vegeta...is the first to suggest doing the thing he hates most of all, because he knows the threat their facing and if he has to abandon his pride for 30 minutes or so that's fair game. And in the end, when Goku has seemingly died and Omega is about to basically ruin the world. You can easily tell how much Vegeta cares and just wants to get everyone off the planet and try to get them to safety while he himself takes one last stand against Omega despite knowing how fruitless he is. ![]() Stay Classy Vegeta |
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 03:15 PM Post #26 |
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Ig yeah when it comes to Vegeta's character, and Prince of Saiyans said that too, GT did a good job with him. It's just his lack of strength that bothers me. It's obvious he's above all the others but he's just too much weaker than Goku is what really bothers me. |
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| + Clearin | Jul 21 2016, 03:25 PM Post #27 |
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Making a list of what GT does good compared to Super won't really help with "GT is unfairly criticised" since most people here don't even like Super. If your only way of saying GT is good is by comparing it to something else that is bad then maybe that's just proof that GT isn't so great after all :P |
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| + Son-Goku | Jul 21 2016, 03:27 PM Post #28 |
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There are still enough people here that like Super though. I personally enjoy it even with it's many flaws. |
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| StrenuousSpider | Jul 21 2016, 03:28 PM Post #29 |
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all I can say is I loved GTs characters. ssj4,baby, and omega. 17 I like but not like the others. rildo was ok. were they went wrong in my opinion was making pan so strong. and most of the stuff before baby saga. while I liked the idea of 7 shadow dragons. it was a bit much for the amount of episodes they had. what I don't like about super. the main one for most is animation. not to mention how sensored it is to the other 3 series. inconsistent power scaling. |
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| + Clearin | Jul 21 2016, 03:29 PM Post #30 |
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I have mixed feelings on it. But regardless, I feel like there's too much comparing of GT and Super. Ever since Super came out everyone has been praising GT more, which is fine. But almost every time, compliments of GT have to be directly compared to the negatives of Super. I basically never see a topic for praising GT that isn't also for bashing Super. Edited by Clearin, Jul 21 2016, 03:29 PM.
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