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SSJG >>>> SSB; Power rating
Topic Started: Jul 19 2016, 11:50 PM (4,068 Views)
Xenoverse
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There have been a lot of hypotheticals about ssb being better than SSJG. None of these are really backed by evidence though.

As we all know from an official statement by Akira Toriyama, SSJG is 70% of Beerus's power.

Yet as we see in the Multiverse tournament, SSB's power times 10 (SSBKx10) still isn't stronger than Beerus or Champa (Beerus's weaker brother)

We know this because Hit matched SSBKx10 and was still scared of Champa. Not only that but Beerus still being not truly worried about Goku (Despite Whis's teasing) when seeing SSBkkx10

This would put SSB at indefinitely less than SSJG. I would say at most 10% ssjg but it could be any number lower since we still don't know the PL of the gods or how they compare to the lower plane.
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lazerbem
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It's bad writing, no big deal besides that.
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魔王子

A. Beerus didn't use 70% of his strength in Super.
B. Super Saiyan Blue is around 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan in the manga, not the anime.
C. The Kaio-ken bit is just inflation. One can easily assume Beerus is lying about using 10% of his strength against angry Vegeta.

Anyway, the narrator stated that Super Saiyan Blue is stronger than Super Saiyan God in Episode 25
Dragon Ball Super Fact Checker: Episode 25
 
Narrator: "In order to surpass the powered up Freeza, Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even Super Saiyan God."
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jul 19 2016, 11:55 PM.
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Slifer
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SSJG is 60% of Beerus' BoG power. The 6-10-15 scale doesn't apply to Super.
Edited by Slifer, Jul 19 2016, 11:56 PM.
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Xenoverse
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lazerbem
Jul 19 2016, 11:51 PM
It's bad writing, no big deal besides that.
Toriyama needs to just stop making statements.
Or stop writing in general.

If you can't remember the details of you own show that literally any average fan can remember then maybe you need to pass the candle to an apprentice.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 19 2016, 11:54 PM
A. Beerus didn't use 70% of his strength in Super.
B. Super Saiyan Blue is around 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan in the manga, not the anime.
C. The Kaio-ken bit is just inflation. One can easily assume Beerus is lying about using 10% of his strength against angry Vegeta.

Anyway, the narrator stated that Super Saiyan Blue is stronger than Super Saiyan God in Episode 25
Dragon Ball Super Fact Checker: Episode 25
 
Narrator: "In order to surpass the powered up Freeza, Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even Super Saiyan God."
Isn't ssj3 8x ssj?

ssb is only 10x? Toriyama is just writing himself into a hole.

He literally said Goku is 6

beerus is 10

whis 15

Now all of the sudden that's obsolete? This show needs a new writer honestly.
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魔王子

Yes, Super Saiyan 3 is 8 times stronger than Super Saiyan according to the Super Exciting Guide. Toriyama didn't necessarily give the new scale for the manga. This is likely Toyotaro's doing, considering the events in the anime and the manga are so different.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 20 2016, 12:01 AM
Yes, Super Saiyan 3 is 8 times stronger than Super Saiyan according to the Super Exciting Guide. Toriyama didn't necessarily give the new scale for the manga. This is likely Toyotaro's doing, considering the events in the anime and the manga are so different.
I get the feeling I should start reading the manga from the start of super.
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Xenoverse
Jul 19 2016, 11:59 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 19 2016, 11:54 PM
A. Beerus didn't use 70% of his strength in Super.
B. Super Saiyan Blue is around 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan in the manga, not the anime.
C. The Kaio-ken bit is just inflation. One can easily assume Beerus is lying about using 10% of his strength against angry Vegeta.

Anyway, the narrator stated that Super Saiyan Blue is stronger than Super Saiyan God in Episode 25
Dragon Ball Super Fact Checker: Episode 25
 
Narrator: "In order to surpass the powered up Freeza, Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even Super Saiyan God."
Isn't ssj3 8x ssj?

ssb is only 10x? Toriyama is just writing himself into a hole.

He literally said Goku is 6

beerus is 10

whis 15

Now all of the sudden that's obsolete? This show needs a new writer honestly.
My favorite quote is from Vegeta, and he says it in the Android Arc when he's talking to Gero.
"Saiyan power can't be calculated or predicted."

Which tells us something: Saiyan power changes all the time based on condition and training. Super Saiyan power boosts seems to have changed after Mastery, etc. In addition to this, fighting power is more layered than simply being "X's ki is stronger than Y's".

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魔王子

As cool as that line is, I find it funny that he's still relying on numbers in the Majin Boo arc:
Strength Checker
 

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”


And I can't say I agree that there's an implication that the Super Saiyan multipliers have changed over the years. Super Saiyan Blue makes sense if you assume that Goku's base power increased as a result of Super Saiyan God, and what do you know, that is the case.
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Xenoverse
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Ice Queen Emeriti
Jul 20 2016, 12:15 AM
Xenoverse
Jul 19 2016, 11:59 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 19 2016, 11:54 PM
A. Beerus didn't use 70% of his strength in Super.
B. Super Saiyan Blue is around 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan in the manga, not the anime.
C. The Kaio-ken bit is just inflation. One can easily assume Beerus is lying about using 10% of his strength against angry Vegeta.

Anyway, the narrator stated that Super Saiyan Blue is stronger than Super Saiyan God in Episode 25
Dragon Ball Super Fact Checker: Episode 25
 
Narrator: "In order to surpass the powered up Freeza, Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even Super Saiyan God."
Isn't ssj3 8x ssj?

ssb is only 10x? Toriyama is just writing himself into a hole.

He literally said Goku is 6

beerus is 10

whis 15

Now all of the sudden that's obsolete? This show needs a new writer honestly.
My favorite quote is from Vegeta, and he says it in the Android Arc when he's talking to Gero.
"Saiyan power can't be calculated or predicted."

Which tells us something: Saiyan power changes all the time based on condition and training. Super Saiyan power boosts seems to have changed after Mastery, etc. In addition to this, fighting power is more layered than simply being "X's ki is stronger than Y's".

We can still get a decent scope on their power. There are official multipliers no matter what. They may be able to get more skilled in a battle but the overall power doesn't change for anything more than rage boost.


(Also) Vegeta says a lot of s*** about Saiyans he can't back up.
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Xenoverse
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 20 2016, 12:24 AM
As cool as that line is, I find it funny that he's still relying on numbers in the Majin Boo arc:
Strength Checker
 

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”


And I can't say I agree that there's an implication that the Super Saiyan multipliers have changed over the years. Super Saiyan Blue makes sense if you assume that Goku's base power increased as a result of Super Saiyan God, and what do you know, that is the case.
But you also have to think about the 2 base theory. This would explain why future trunks could keep up with ssj2 Goku but ssj3 Gotenks get's 1 shot by a not serious base vegeta.
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魔王子

The manga hasn't gotten that far yet, so we don't know if Goku uses Super Saiyan 3 in the manga.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

This is bad writing guys, plain and simple. Toriyama keeps repeatedly making and doing silly statements and actions. At this point, just roll with it. Before DBS he had to read through his entire Dragonball franchise again because he had forgotten even basic details.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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ssb is blatantly stated to be the result of transforming into an ssj while using the power of ssjg.

the manga shows goku transforming into ssjg whenever he accesses god ki. he merely uses ssj in conjunction with that form.


you could say that ssjg possesses a higher multiplier than ssb.
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