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| Is Goku a Mary Sue? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 19 2016, 12:16 AM (3,929 Views) | |
| EMIYA | Jul 19 2016, 12:16 AM Post #1 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I've often said that Super Goku with a bit of Boo Arc Goku added in has become terrifyingly close to being a Mary Sue/Marty Sue. He ends up being massively strong (which to be far on this point he seems to at least train to earn this) has most of the series entirely focused on him to the point completely denying the characters any interaction beyond the basics. Is a complete man child yet loved by everyone and despite the massive amount of flaws anyone could see in him, these flaws are never addressed. Even if they are, they are ignored and those talking about them are treated like they're wrong or they go nowhere. What do you all think? Has Goku become the series Mary Sue/Marty Stu? Edited by EMIYA, Jul 19 2016, 08:08 AM.
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| lazerbem | Jul 19 2016, 12:25 AM Post #2 |
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No, that term is used incorrectly a lot. He isn't because he isn't perfect and almighty. He's weaker than Beers and Whis, Freeza played him for a dumbass, Black's probably going to do the same thing, and he lost to Hit. Now, is he a black hole of protagonism and rather poorly written? Yeah, but he's no Mary Sue yet, because as of now, he's still got a shoddy win/loss record and needs others to bail him out. Edited by lazerbem, Jul 19 2016, 12:27 AM.
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Jul 19 2016, 12:34 AM Post #3 |
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No. Vegeta is right there with him @ strength. lol |
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| EMIYA | Jul 19 2016, 12:46 AM Post #4 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Just out of curiosity but who says you have to be the strongest to be a Mary Sue? I think what really needs to be said is that a Mary Sue needs to have traits that are badly written, not necessarily whether that makes them powerful or not. Imagine for a moment if someone wrote a character who was treated as a very wise and strong mentor. He never loses a fight and is praised for his skill and intelligence by both friends and enemies. The mentor shows no flaws as a character and in the end is treated as the perfect being who is every bit as great as people make him out to be. Would you call that Mary Sue? I might call it an uninteresting character but I wouldn't call it a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue isn't necessarily someone is treated as being better than others, it's someone who is fundamentally flawed and whether directly or indirectly is never called out on it. Goku in the past was flawed and was called out on it. In the past he was unreasonably merciful and he later learned that some people can't be reasoned with. He was called out on his treatment of his son in the Cell games and he came (during that time) to the realization that he made a mistake and knew he had to do something to fix it. For example Goku's universe busting is a heavily flawed move that by all means should have put a lot of people in the universe in danger. It was neither a smart move or one he'd really even make. However Goku is not called out on it. When Goku refuses to work together with Vegeta against Freeza, although Beerus and Whis try to tell them this, they ignore it and they've continued to ignore it with no repercussions yet. For me, the fact that Goku has become such a heavily flawed character but is still treated as a relatively flawless and great characters makes him more of a Mary Sue than even the most blatant God tier characters. |
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| lazerbem | Jul 19 2016, 12:55 AM Post #5 |
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Goku isn't called out on that front, but Whis does call him out for being arrogant in the Golden Freeza saga. A Mary Sue is a main character with no flaws or unaddressed flaws and no challenges to face as a character. Goku does still face challenges because it is a fighting manga and Whis does indeed call him out on his problems. He's on the road to it, but so long as he has challenges to overcome that he can't just solve with a wave of his hand, he's not a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is a very narrow term, and rarely ever applies to things. Edited by lazerbem, Jul 19 2016, 12:55 AM.
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| Tinny | Jul 19 2016, 01:09 AM Post #6 |
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I'd say he has way to too much in common with a Mary sue, and at this point is just as bad if not worse than a Mary Sue, but I'm with Lazer on this, Mary Sue is very narrow, and only really happens in amateur fan fiction and light novels. But once again, Goku is still a terrible character for many of the same reasons, while he faces problems and has weaknesses that are pointed out, they're not the ones that really being down his character (Like leaving himself open is a weakness, but let's be honest, it's the fact that he killed billions in a d***measuring contest that we consider his biggest fault as a character). So he's technically not a Mary Sue, but he's just as bad if not worse than then as I see it. |
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| + Kaboom | Jul 19 2016, 06:36 AM Post #7 |
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Not the truest Son Goku as he's normally written by Toriyama. But the way Toei typically writes him? Yeah, he's the closest thing the franchise has to a Gary Stu. |
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| + Pyrus | Jul 19 2016, 06:53 AM Post #8 |
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I don't think he's a Gary Sue in its purest form. To me, a Gary Sue is Jaden Yuki from Yu-Gi-Oh! GX (anime-wise, at least). |
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| WL-0 | Jul 19 2016, 08:11 AM Post #9 |
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He's poorly written, a very s***ty MC but not a MS. |
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Jul 19 2016, 08:19 AM Post #10 |
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A Mary Stu is a perfect, cool, Quiet character than can keep his cool and erase problems without much trouble. Goku has pretty much none of those qualities. He's simply strong and accepted by people who know him. If he's a Mary Stu then Naruto (pein saga) is too. |
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| caryslan | Jul 20 2016, 08:06 PM Post #11 |
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King Kai also told him to pretty much get the f*** off his planet when he came by to train. So, he not getting off the hook for his actions all that much anymore. |
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| lazerbem | Jul 20 2016, 08:21 PM Post #12 |
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His rage issues were called out in the Dark World arc when he went all emo and by the end of the series, he needed someone else to explain what fun was to him again. Also, I'm pretty sure he's lost a couple of times. |
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| Notaka | Jul 20 2016, 08:25 PM Post #13 |
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Always Wright
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I think he lost like only 2 times ? Against Zane and Aster iirc. On-Topic: I don't think Goku is a mary sue. He's not perfect. The only ones that I could consider mary sues are Whis, Vados and Omni King. |
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| Sam | Jul 20 2016, 09:54 PM Post #14 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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I'd say, where I'm at in DBS, he is getting there. I voted close. |
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Jul 20 2016, 11:11 PM Post #15 |
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Da **** is a 'Mary Sue'? @A Mary Sue is a main character with no flaws or unaddressed flaws and no challenges to face as a character. Ohh! Okay. So, basically all the main protagonists belonging to almost all the shounen anime/manga. So basically Self-insertion. Welp, I guess then by that definition Goku and the gang(remaining protagonists) are pretty much similar/close to this 'Mary Sue' |
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