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SSJ3 vegito vs SSG gokuv(not a battle. but power)
Topic Started: Jul 14 2016, 03:12 PM (7,384 Views)
Amerson26
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Xenoverse
Jul 24 2016, 02:32 AM
Amerson26
Jul 23 2016, 11:27 PM
Solid Snake
Jul 23 2016, 10:18 PM
Amerson26
Jul 23 2016, 07:01 PM
Solid Snake
Jul 23 2016, 06:40 PM
Amerson26
Jul 23 2016, 05:52 PM
Xenoverse
Jul 23 2016, 05:15 PM
Amerson26
Jul 23 2016, 05:06 PM
Solid Snake
Jul 23 2016, 03:42 PM
Amerson26
Jul 23 2016, 10:06 AM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
You have to see though, that statement was made to a heavily suppress Beerus. If Goku's saying he's unsure if Fusion will be enough just tells us that BoG Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is likely somewhere around this suppressed Beerus. Goku's statement about Super Saiyan God being an entirely different realm of power he couldn't reach on his own speaks volumes, he made it seems like it was vastly more powerful then whatever came prior to it.

That's the reason Super Saiyan God Goku is massively stronger then BoG Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. 2-10x gap from the two, I don't have him 100x or more stronger though.
It don't matter if beerus suppress or not. How would goku know that if he can't sense his god ki. That's just like when the ginyu force couldn't since goku when he land on namek. What am saying is we don't how much stronger versus is over vegito. But fans are just boost him up over a unsure line. So yeah at most I go with 1-5 times stronger. As far that 1000 times stronger that's non sense. Unit proven other wise. No one not even the fan predict how much stronger beerus is. All they can do is assume what they feel fit.
Frieza knew how strong Goku was without being able to sense KI. Fighting someone is an obvious indicator of strength. Stupid point you brought up.

Anyways, ssjg is easily massively stronger than ssj3 vegito.

SBG alone 1 shots Buuhan easily. Base vegito however is most likely weaker than buuhan in the canon since in the manga he went straight ssj never fought Buu in base. This would put ssj2 Goku in super above ssj3 vegito in Z. Godmode put Goku somewhere higher than he is even in super.

I'd put ssjg easily <50x higher than ssj3 vegito
Stupid point ? Freeze is one person who went through some changes his self. But no other z fighter could sense god ki. Freeze didn't even know his own power was decreasing. And there you go you just can't assume ask g goku can do that. It don't work like that. Am pretty sure you gone used ssj3 gotenk getting push to the side by vegeta copy. That's not surpriseing cell did the same thing to vegeta . So your point is stupid buddy 🤗
If you can't sense someone's power to gauge their strength, the next best options are: to see them fight, or do battle with them yourself. Doing battle yourself is the better way cause you can feel the gap from the fight itself. Remember, Piccolo questioned Goku if they could defeat the androids but Goku replied he doesn't know and will tell him after he's tried. At the least, they were expecting foes stronger then they were 3 years prior to the androids coming.

Again with Dabura, they couldn't sense the Majin's ki but they knew based on his movements that he was tough but nothing they couldn't handle. Goku deduced he was around Perfect Cell's level before he saw more of fighting, it wasn't until during his battle with Gohan that Goku given him a higher placement cause he saw that he knew magic too.

Sensing ki isn't the sole way to tell someone's power is basically what I'm getting at.

Goku doubting why fusion wouldn't work is because he was once apart of the fusion and vividly saw how strong he was. Recall Goku proclaiming he could've beaten Kid Buu in one blast if he had the Potara? How could Goku know that unless he's experienced the power of Potara and actually fought Kid Buu? Just cause they've gotten stronger doesn't mean the boost will change. If Potara multiplied their power by a 100, then that's how much it will multiply them, weaker or stronger, it will ALWAYS be the same boosts.
The different between those characters and beers is that versus has god ki and cell has regular ki. As far as the Androids go piccolo wasn't even sure he could take 18 and 17 because he can't sense they power level. Cell is a different factor because he actually has regular ki.
The only difference is their power source.

Gods - God ki
Androids (#16, 17, 18, 19 & Gero) - inorganic energy
Bio-androids (Cell & Cell Jr's.) - ki
Majins (Pui Pui, Yakon, Dabura) - sorcery empowered ki
"Humans" (earthlings and all aliens) - ki

The androids I was referring to was 16 - 19, they couldn't sense them but they knew and how outcomes of fights will be by observing or fighting the battles.
Mm not really it was just a matter of they stronger or they not. Piccolo just said 17 punch hard but he still didn't know 17 power level. He was either stronger then him or not. But I know what you mean. You talking about hiting power right?
Are you legitimately brain damaged?

When people sense powers, they don't get an exact, quantifiable, power level. It's like looking at a puddle and comparing it to your own puddle to see where they lay.

The same concept in fighting is, we don't figure their exact power level but we can compare their skill and power to our own along with anyone else we've fought. If anything, Fighting is a better indicator than sensing power. The longer we go the more stupid your arguments sound.
Beerus pretty much one shot goku. When was getting one shot a clear indicator question mark? Lol you the one with the brain damage boy. Now go play your xenoverse buddy boy ;-)
Edited by Amerson26, Jul 24 2016, 06:04 AM.
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Why is there so much hostility here? Both of you need to calm down and grow up before a mod takes control and shuts this down. Come on.
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I haven't watched the BoG arc of Super personally, but from my understanding of the movie, it appeared as if God Ki, while a quick and effective means of attaining power that can launch a fighter such as Goku into Beerus's spectrum, is not intrinsically necessary to match beings of that specific order. For instance - Vegeta after becoming enraged saw a spike in his power that allowed him to momentarily resist Beerus's attacks and even draw blood from him; all of this being accomplished while he was just an SSJ2. Furthermore, Frieza, untapped "genius" potential or not, using nondescript training methods skyrocketed him up from being inferior to Namek arc SSJ Goku to unlocking a new transformation which allowed him to maintain an advantage over SSJB Goku.

So in relation to God Ki or SSJG Goku, I think there's some wiggle room that could be made for SSJ3 Vegito. He should logically retain the traits from his original fusion components, yes? That would entail powering up to his maximum like Goku attempted in the Buu arc. Furthermore, who is to say Vegito isn't capable of acquiring the same enraged power up that Vegeta somehow miraculously gained? If a combination of circumstances like that could allow Vegeta to momentarily pressure a suppressed Beerus, why couldn't the same be disputed for the vastly superior Vegito using a superior form against a greatly weaker opponent?
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Thiln
Jul 24 2016, 06:35 AM
I haven't watched the BoG arc of Super personally, but from my understanding of the movie, it appeared as if God Ki, while a quick and effective means of attaining power that can launch a fighter such as Goku into Beerus's spectrum, is not intrinsically necessary to match beings of that specific order. For instance - Vegeta after becoming enraged saw a spike in his power that allowed him to momentarily resist Beerus's attacks and even draw blood from him; all of this being accomplished while he was just an SSJ2. Furthermore, Frieza, untapped "genius" potential or not, using nondescript training methods skyrocketed him up from being inferior to Namek arc SSJ Goku to unlocking a new transformation which allowed him to maintain an advantage over SSJB Goku.

So in relation to God Ki or SSJG Goku, I think there's some wiggle room that could be made for SSJ3 Vegito. He should logically retain the traits from his original fusion components, yes? That would entail powering up to his maximum like Goku attempted in the Buu arc. Furthermore, who is to say Vegito isn't capable of acquiring the same enraged power up that Vegeta somehow miraculously gained? If a combination of circumstances like that could allow Vegeta to momentarily pressure a suppressed Beerus, why couldn't the same be disputed for the vastly superior Vegito using a superior form against a greatly weaker opponent?
Vegeta becoming enraged just pushed him passed a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito, who'd more or less equal Beerus back on North Kaio's planet. Despite how big the power increase was it still didn't bother Beerus. The ides you're proposing is the ki vs God ki sentiment. No one is arguing ki users can't hurt God ki users but the idea that Super Saiyan 3 Vegito BoG saga and further can't do nothing to Beerus cause he's inferior to Super Saiyan 2 enraged Vegeta.

Vegito couldn't or could possibly have that ability but it has to be triggered and with Goku's state of mind balancing out Vegeta's persona to a degree, I doubt he'll even use it. Plus it has to be triggered with Bulma as the catalyst.
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Was it ever established that Beerus's power remained consistently stagnant when he was confronted by Vegeta? I ask this because characters' power can easily fluctuate depending on the whim of the user. As for God Ki relative to normal Ki - my point was that beings with enough potential and strength don't require God Ki to achieve some kind of effect. Vegito is likely one of those candidates because of his amalgamated potential from two of the "greatest masters" in all the universe according to Elder Kai and the potency of the Potara Earrings working together.

With regards to your comment about Vegito not matching up to Vegeta's performance - Goku never provided any specifics as to how well a hypothetical BoG Vegito would do. This is the exact line according to Herms' translation.

Goku: “This ain’t good. The only way to get stronger would be to merge with Vegeta…and even then, I don’t think I could win.

Underperforming against Beerus to the point where you have little to no confidence in your ability for winning encompasses a fairly large spectrum of power - one which both Vegito and enaraged SSJ2 Vegeta happen to occupy. An uncertainty of Vegito's chances arguably speaks more volumes than Vegeta's desperation outburst. One was briefly considered to be the primary means of resistance against Beerus while the other was more or less a Gohan inspired spike in power which had about as much impact as Namek arc Gohan attacking 2nd form Frieza.

Both characters are susceptible to outbursts of fury. Goku's incidents are merely less prevalent since he's grown to psychologically depend on the Dragonballs to such an unhealthy degree that not even watching his family and friends, including his best friend Krillin, get butchered by Super Buu stirs any kind of intense reaction from him.
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No, there isn't any proof he was at the same level from his time on Kaio's world and to earth. But in the anime at least, he directly compares Vegeta raged out to Goku shortly after the short battle ended. This same Goku couldn't force him to "10%" of his power and was uncertain of merging with Vegeta would help. I get what you mean on God ki vs ki, but Vegito, despite having loads of potential, doesn't mean he could use this in a battle if he doesn't has a trigger effect. Say he does have Vegeta plot induced rage boost, how will he bring it out without Bulma? That comment was made when Beerus was in his slumber so he could've likely taken the #1 spot.

True it's not specific, but it's our way of knowing where a current union of the two of Vegito's components will lie. The quote signifies that Vegito may or may not be enough to defeat Beerus on North Kaio's world.
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Vegito has more than just Vegeta's emotional connections in his mind. Rage induced power increases can be fostered by watching someone close to the person in question being attacked or killed. In Goku's case, his trigger usually seems to involve the death of Krillin, though seeing the condition of his other friends when he arrived in the Saiyan arc did precipitate a seething responce from him towards Nappa. Although I don't believe that Vegeta's imitative mockery of Gohan's most defining trait would be enough to somehow push him from being inferior to Goku in a normal state of mind to surpassing a being who is leagues ahead of him in Base alone; not even Gohan's rage increases granted him that much power.

Being unsure about a fusion's chances still seems better compared with Vegeta barely leaving any dent using his strongest technique.
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