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Two base theory thinking
Topic Started: Jul 7 2016, 01:29 AM (7,726 Views)
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孫悟空

So I stopped using the two base theory when DBS Chapter 13 came out then I wasn't for it anymore and now I'm to another point where I'm somewhere in between. So I'm back to my original thoughts of Saiyan beyond god. But it's not something Goku uses in the Universe 6 and 7 tournament, let me try and explain. So after Goku's battle with Beerus I don't think that Goku's base became equal to the Super Saiyan Red form but I do think that Goku absorbed the powers and became stronger but not to the point of Super Saiyan Red. He then found in Whis's training to tap into his old Super Saiyan Red powers by using Saiyan beyond god that he uses against Final Form Frieza and there is one manga panel that he is using it in training against Whis. The form is strong and is as powerful as Super Saiyan Red but doesn't have all of the benefits of it neither is it god ki. Goku at some point had however learned how to actually transform into his Super Saiyan Red form which had more benefits than that of Saiyan beyond god. So he was almost replacing Saiyan beyond god with Super Saiyan Red.

So here is a mini power scale of how things should be: SSB Goku>SSR Goku>=SBG Goku>SS3 Goku>SS2 Goku>SS Goku>Base Goku

So it isn't that I think that Saiyan beyond god is god ki, because it's not, but it's that I think that that was one way of tapping into the Super Saiyan Red powers. Hopefully what I'm thinking makes sense to you guys.
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breaker335
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Bit confused on what the different base ki thing is. Anyone mind explaining?
Edited by breaker335, Jul 7 2016, 01:31 AM.
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breaker335
Jul 7 2016, 01:30 AM
Bit confused on what the different base ki thing is. Anyone mind explaining?
The idea is that Goku can augment his base and Super Saiyan form with God Ki. In other words, he has his regular base state and a base state that's augmented by God Ki.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 7 2016, 01:37 AM
breaker335
Jul 7 2016, 01:30 AM
Bit confused on what the different base ki thing is. Anyone mind explaining?
The idea is that Goku can augment his base and Super Saiyan form with God Ki. In other words, he has his regular base state and a base state that's augmented by God Ki.
But there's no proof Goku ever used actual godly ki in his base form.
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No, I suppose not, but Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 make a case for there being 2 base states. If Goku could use Super Saiyan 2 and 3, I don't see why he wouldn't have used them against Beerus.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jul 7 2016, 02:01 AM
No, I suppose not, but Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 make a case for there being 2 base states. If Goku could use Super Saiyan 2 and 3, I don't see why he wouldn't have used them against Beerus.
So much complicated stuff right? Well I think that him transforming into a Super Saiyan was him just trying to continually grip onto the god power. However he lost the power when the battle was over but was later to regain the power of Super Saiyan Red through Saiyan Beyond god. This is all my opinion I'm not trying to state facts. But also I'm not so sure that Super Saiyan is transformed on top of Saiyan Beyond god. I don't think that Goku probably could do that. I think there are probably some hidden flaws about Saiyan beyond god that we don't know about as well. But there are definitely more assets to Super Saiyan Red.
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Got a quick question, so where does Goku draws the God ki from? Say he goes Super Saiyan, shouldn't he instead turn Super Saiyan Blue? He can't just pull it out of nowhere, it has to be acquired before he can even go Saiyan beyond God mode.

Goku has two bases, one without God ki active (which gives him his traditional Super Saiyan forms) and one with it dubbed Saiyan beyond God (granting him a God transformation [two in the manga] to substitute the initial Super Saiyan form).
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Solid Snake
Jul 7 2016, 02:54 AM
Got a quick question, so where does Goku draws the God ki from? Say he goes Super Saiyan, shouldn't he instead turn Super Saiyan Blue? He can't just pull it out of nowhere, it has to be acquired before he can even go Saiyan beyond God mode.

Goku has two bases, one without God ki active (which gives him his traditional Super Saiyan forms) and one with it dubbed Saiyan beyond God (granting him a God transformation [two in the manga] to substitute the initial Super Saiyan form).
Super Saiyan Blue is the mix of Super Saiyan Red and Super Saiyan, obviously.

How does what I've said contradict what you're saying? But are you saying Saiyan beyond god has god ki?
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SSbardock84
Jul 7 2016, 03:01 AM
Solid Snake
Jul 7 2016, 02:54 AM
Got a quick question, so where does Goku draws the God ki from? Say he goes Super Saiyan, shouldn't he instead turn Super Saiyan Blue? He can't just pull it out of nowhere, it has to be acquired before he can even go Saiyan beyond God mode.

Goku has two bases, one without God ki active (which gives him his traditional Super Saiyan forms) and one with it dubbed Saiyan beyond God (granting him a God transformation [two in the manga] to substitute the initial Super Saiyan form).
Super Saiyan Blue is the mix of Super Saiyan Red and Super Saiyan, obviously.

How does what I've said contradict what you're saying? But are you saying Saiyan beyond god has god ki?
Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan enriched with God ki, not directly from Super Saiyan God.

Yes, like I said before, Goku during his battle with Beerus showed two things:

1) Super Saiyan Goku post God was trying to stay clutched to Super Saiyan God's "feeling" to retain a majority of it's power. Thus it was an imperfect version of Super Saiyan Blue.

2) Ordinarily, Super Saiyans give off a specific vibe of ki that's familiar. Goku as a Super Saiyan against Beerus the first time evidently doesn't have God ki and is much weaker then he is later. After the God power up, Goku's "Super Saiyan" is much stronger but still sensible by beings lesser then God, mainly because the form isn't as perfect in ki control to prevent it from leaking out during combat. It isn't till later Goku and Vegeta perfect the Super Saiyan transformation that is later know as Super Saiyan Blue.
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Sbg is just base form yo. Ssj>ssg and base>>>>>>>>>ss3 gotenks. Stop the downplay
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Timothy
Jul 7 2016, 07:57 AM
Sbg is just base form yo. Ssj>ssg and base>>>>>>>>>ss3 gotenks. Stop the downplay
D'ya think Trunks is that strong then?

Also, how can he transform into SSJ when his Base has God Ki without transforming into SSB?
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Nagito Komaeda
Jul 7 2016, 12:24 PM
Timothy
Jul 7 2016, 07:57 AM
Sbg is just base form yo. Ssj>ssg and base>>>>>>>>>ss3 gotenks. Stop the downplay
D'ya think Trunks is that strong then?

Also, how can he transform into SSJ when his Base has God Ki without transforming into SSB?
No but trunks has been fighting black for a year. Also idk. Maybe god ki is only accessed in god forms. Regardless without god ki ssj goku>>ssg
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Tinny
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Timothy
Jul 7 2016, 01:31 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Jul 7 2016, 12:24 PM
Timothy
Jul 7 2016, 07:57 AM
Sbg is just base form yo. Ssj>ssg and base>>>>>>>>>ss3 gotenks. Stop the downplay
D'ya think Trunks is that strong then?

Also, how can he transform into SSJ when his Base has God Ki without transforming into SSB?
No but trunks has been fighting black for a year. Also idk. Maybe god ki is only accessed in god forms. Regardless without god ki ssj goku>>ssg
Did you say that Trunks isn't as strong as super saiyan god, but that ssj Goku is stronger than super saiyan god, when Goku was using ssj2 against Trunks?
How does that work?
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Solid Snake
Jul 7 2016, 07:48 AM
SSbardock84
Jul 7 2016, 03:01 AM
Solid Snake
Jul 7 2016, 02:54 AM
Got a quick question, so where does Goku draws the God ki from? Say he goes Super Saiyan, shouldn't he instead turn Super Saiyan Blue? He can't just pull it out of nowhere, it has to be acquired before he can even go Saiyan beyond God mode.

Goku has two bases, one without God ki active (which gives him his traditional Super Saiyan forms) and one with it dubbed Saiyan beyond God (granting him a God transformation [two in the manga] to substitute the initial Super Saiyan form).
Super Saiyan Blue is the mix of Super Saiyan Red and Super Saiyan, obviously.

How does what I've said contradict what you're saying? But are you saying Saiyan beyond god has god ki?
Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan enriched with God ki, not directly from Super Saiyan God.

Yes, like I said before, Goku during his battle with Beerus showed two things:

1) Super Saiyan Goku post God was trying to stay clutched to Super Saiyan God's "feeling" to retain a majority of it's power. Thus it was an imperfect version of Super Saiyan Blue.

2) Ordinarily, Super Saiyans give off a specific vibe of ki that's familiar. Goku as a Super Saiyan against Beerus the first time evidently doesn't have God ki and is much weaker then he is later. After the God power up, Goku's "Super Saiyan" is much stronger but still sensible by beings lesser then God, mainly because the form isn't as perfect in ki control to prevent it from leaking out during combat. It isn't till later Goku and Vegeta perfect the Super Saiyan transformation that is later know as Super Saiyan Blue.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you there. The only thing that I see a little different than you is Super Saiyan Blue.
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Skywalker
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It makes the most sense, but if that's the case, they really need to make it known if he's using Goki ki in base. Maybe an aura change or something, it just makes everything stupidly confusing otherwise.
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