The Irony of Power Levels

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The Irony of Power Levels
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 28 2016, 03:12 AM (651 Views)
SuperSaiyan1993	Jun 28 2016, 03:12 AM Post #1
Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans Posts: 3,294 Group: Member Member #7,044 Joined: December 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Avatar	From what I remember, Toriyama introduced power levels and scouters to show power levels were unreliable. Nevertheless, by introducing this concept into the DBZ universe, everyone is bound by power levels. Even the most skilled fighter cannot defeat an unskilled opponent if he is sufficiently more powerful. By trying to show power levels did not matter, Toriyama made power levels the thing that matters most in fights. Edited by SuperSaiyan1993, Jun 28 2016, 03:13 AM.
	We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.


breaker335	Jun 30 2016, 12:00 AM Post #2
Posts: 879 Group: Member Member #13,278 Joined: June 5, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	You say that, but Super pretty much disproves this with characters like Hit. Goku has him beat in terms of raw power but Hit's techniques are what gave him the edge their fight.



KidBuu55	Jun 30 2016, 12:27 AM Post #3
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	False. Powerlevels DO matter, that perspective that they 'don't matter' was perpetuated by Kanzenshuu and it's staff. It's ignorant and narrow minded (not talking about you specifically) The real reason powerlevels were done away with was because it was too easy for the viewer to tell who would win a fight by seeing their powerlevel -that's the answer literally given my Toriyama.



breaker335	Jun 30 2016, 12:34 AM Post #4
Posts: 879 Group: Member Member #13,278 Joined: June 5, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	KidBuu55 Jun 30 2016, 12:27 AM False. Powerlevels DO matter, that perspective that they 'don't matter' was perpetuated by Kanzenshuu and it's staff. It's ignorant and narrow minded (not talking about you specifically) The real reason powerlevels were done away with was because it was too easy for the viewer to tell who would win a fight by seeing their powerlevel -that's the answer literally given my Toriyama. Source?



lazerbem	Jun 30 2016, 12:42 AM Post #5
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	breaker335 Jun 30 2016, 12:00 AM You say that, but Super pretty much disproves this with characters like Hit. Goku has him beat in terms of raw power but Hit's techniques are what gave him the edge their fight. That is one of the worst arguments to use here when Goku's reaction to Hit's time stop is to basically just get even more power so that it stops working on him. Goku doesn't beat Hit through thinking hard, he beats him by doing the DBZ equivalent of two kids on a play ground going "Lightsaber" "Lightsaber proof armor" Lightsaber that cuts through lightsaber proof armor"
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Tinny	Jun 30 2016, 12:43 AM Post #6
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	breaker335 Jun 30 2016, 12:00 AM You say that, but Super pretty much disproves this with characters like Hit. Goku has him beat in terms of raw power but Hit's techniques are what gave him the edge their fight. Not quite, Hit became more powerful than Goku, or was more powerful in general in that case, not to mention if you're strong enough, you can still break through it. While Toriyama is right to a degree, overall he did end up breaking his own point. The idea was that characters can raise or lower their power level, causing foes to underestimate them (often returning to a suppressed power level before he scouter realizes anything is happening). They can raise it with certain attacks (surprising their foe with this sudden build in power), they can power up/use a technique like Kaioken (and make themselves far more powerful), or suppress it and release it in short bursts, fighting just as well as usual while concealing how strong they are. That said, the linearity of the power level system makes this moot after a certain amount of power relative to the others is gained. Pretty level is ultimately one the largest deciding factors in a fight, though I think this is more a fault in fight choreography and variety than anything. Edited by Tinny, Jun 30 2016, 01:22 AM.
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lazerbem	Jun 30 2016, 12:45 AM Post #7
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	If power levels weren't everything, then the gods wouldn't be impressive in the least.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


breaker335	Jun 30 2016, 01:56 AM Post #8
Posts: 879 Group: Member Member #13,278 Joined: June 5, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	lazerbem Jun 30 2016, 12:42 AM breaker335 Jun 30 2016, 12:00 AM You say that, but Super pretty much disproves this with characters like Hit. Goku has him beat in terms of raw power but Hit's techniques are what gave him the edge their fight. That is one of the worst arguments to use here when Goku's reaction to Hit's time stop is to basically just get even more power so that it stops working on him. Goku doesn't beat Hit through thinking hard, he beats him by doing the DBZ equivalent of two kids on a play ground going "Lightsaber" "Lightsaber proof armor" Lightsaber that cuts through lightsaber proof armor" Hm, probably should've worded it better. Hit had techniques that he couldn't use because of tournament rules, preventing him from going all out. Moves, at least implied, specifically designed to kill, so he had his hands tied on that one. Really what I'm trying to say is, this is true during Z but for Super, it only works to a certain extent. Edited by breaker335, Jun 30 2016, 02:01 AM.



lazerbem	Jun 30 2016, 02:21 AM Post #9
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	And when those killing techniques come out, I bet you that it'll be solved by Goku going Kaioken x20/whatever other power-up and getting strong enough that they don't work anymore.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


KidBuu55	Jun 30 2016, 02:49 AM Post #10
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	"My number-one goal in coming up with it was because, if an opponent's strength could be seen as a number, it would be very easy for the readers to understand when I put it in the comic. However, I could foresee that it would be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that their power would change due to ki and could not be adequately measured. In addition, it is a very convenient item to create peril, since with enemies equipped with them, their location could become known, and they could be reported." - Akira Toriyama, Saikyō Jump #5, 2014



DSTREET45	Jul 1 2016, 10:07 AM Post #11
Posts: 883 Group: Member Member #9,779 Joined: July 21, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragonball/Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Yu Yu Hakusho	breaker335 Jun 30 2016, 12:34 AM KidBuu55 Jun 30 2016, 12:27 AM False. Powerlevels DO matter, that perspective that they 'don't matter' was perpetuated by Kanzenshuu and it's staff. It's ignorant and narrow minded (not talking about you specifically) The real reason powerlevels were done away with was because it was too easy for the viewer to tell who would win a fight by seeing their powerlevel -that's the answer literally given my Toriyama. Source? The link to KidBuu55 quote: Saikyo Jump Interview Series: Naho Ooishi x Akira Toriyama



+ Emmeth	Jul 1 2016, 10:16 AM Post #12
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Toriyama also implies with that quote that power levels are unreliably diverse. That backs up this statement by Vegeta: Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P8.2-4 No.19: “Seems you’ve been watching things all along, but you missed hearing the most important thing. Vegeta, we already know all about your battle techniques.” Vegeta: “Even so, you looked pretty surprised when Kakarot became a Super Saiyan…In other words, your data from the battle with Freeza up to the present is estimated…We Saiyans can’t be understood just by calculations…” Edited by Emmeth, Jul 1 2016, 10:17 AM.
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lazerbem	Jul 1 2016, 02:39 PM Post #13
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Vegeta was referring to their growth being incalculable, but he was wrong even in that regard considering 18 and 17 stomped owned him.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


+ Emmeth	Jul 1 2016, 04:05 PM Post #14
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	lazerbem Jul 1 2016, 02:39 PM Vegeta was referring to their growth being incalculable, but he was wrong even in that regard considering 18 and 17 stomped owned him. I don't think he's necessarily wrong, I think he's overestimating his own ability. Him being beaten by 18 doesn't disprove what he said.
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