Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 12:13 AM

superperfectnerd

Jun 27 2016, 11:19 PM

This is the problem with both GT and Super, seemingly ridiculous heights of power never before felt across the universe (Cell and Buu) are now inferior to the likes of Cabba, Freeza and base future Trunks if there aren't two base forms for Goku.

GT at least gave us the Rild comment with Goku to help give us a good clue where everyone is up until that point. Super? Everyone's just "really really weaker than Beerus and Whis" and how strong they are from episode to episode, let alone in comparison to previous arcs makes the anime impossible to make sense of without the two base theory.

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 04:31 PM

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

This.

Trunks trained in the ROSAT after seeing Goku and Gohan and still didn't reach their heights (probably because he had no sparring partner) and was referred to as a novice in terms of battle experience. What could he possibly have done to reach God tier alone in his timeline?

Goku had the Otherworld training to reach ssj3 and the god ritual.

Vegeta had godly training from Whis.

Gohan trained with the z sword and then had his hidden power released and surpassed all Boo saga fighters but that level of power is now a joke compared to base Trunks who was alone in the future?

If an explanation was offered it'd be fine...but it won't be. It just turns past villains and heroes into a joke for struggling to get where they got.

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 06:17 PM

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 04:31 PM

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

This.

Trunks trained in the ROSAT after seeing Goku and Gohan and still didn't reach their heights (probably because he had no sparring partner) and was referred to as a novice in terms of battle experience. What could he possibly have done to reach God tier alone in his timeline?

Goku had the Otherworld training to reach ssj3 and the god ritual.

Vegeta had godly training from Whis.

Gohan trained with the z sword and then had his hidden power released and surpassed all Boo saga fighters but that level of power is now a joke compared to base Trunks who was alone in the future?

If an explanation was offered it'd be fine...but it won't be. It just turns past villains and heroes into a joke for struggling to get where they got.

Nah, not true. Trunks was at the same tier as Vegeta in de Cell games arc. Power wise they were even. Goku was stronger yes, but there was never a huge gap between Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku.
These 3 were always above the others with the exception of Gohan, but since Gohan stopped training he left these trio.

Future Trunks trained with the supreme Kai in his time.
He could have got a huge power up thanks to that.

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 06:20 PM

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 06:17 PM

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 04:31 PM

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

This.

Trunks trained in the ROSAT after seeing Goku and Gohan and still didn't reach their heights (probably because he had no sparring partner) and was referred to as a novice in terms of battle experience. What could he possibly have done to reach God tier alone in his timeline?

Goku had the Otherworld training to reach ssj3 and the god ritual.

Vegeta had godly training from Whis.

Gohan trained with the z sword and then had his hidden power released and surpassed all Boo saga fighters but that level of power is now a joke compared to base Trunks who was alone in the future?

If an explanation was offered it'd be fine...but it won't be. It just turns past villains and heroes into a joke for struggling to get where they got.

Nah, not true. Trunks was at the same tier as Vegeta in de Cell games arc. Power wise they were even. Goku was stronger yes, but there was never a huge gap between Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku.
These 3 were always above the others with the exception of Gohan, but since Gohan stopped training he left these trio.

Future Trunks trained with the supreme Kai in his time.
He could have got a huge power up thanks to that.

At best he'd get as strong as Gohan (which is doubtful because he didn't even train with Supreme Kai, merely some tips to beat Dabra and Babidi) after some Z-sword training, which is still leaps and bounds weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Base Goku & Vegeta right now.

So either we ignore the whole copy-Vegeta thing, as anyone with the beginnings of common sense should or Trunks apparently has considerably bigger potential than Gohan all of a sudden.

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 07:20 PM

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 06:20 PM

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 06:17 PM

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 04:31 PM

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

This.

Trunks trained in the ROSAT after seeing Goku and Gohan and still didn't reach their heights (probably because he had no sparring partner) and was referred to as a novice in terms of battle experience. What could he possibly have done to reach God tier alone in his timeline?

Goku had the Otherworld training to reach ssj3 and the god ritual.

Vegeta had godly training from Whis.

Gohan trained with the z sword and then had his hidden power released and surpassed all Boo saga fighters but that level of power is now a joke compared to base Trunks who was alone in the future?

If an explanation was offered it'd be fine...but it won't be. It just turns past villains and heroes into a joke for struggling to get where they got.

Nah, not true. Trunks was at the same tier as Vegeta in de Cell games arc. Power wise they were even. Goku was stronger yes, but there was never a huge gap between Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku.
These 3 were always above the others with the exception of Gohan, but since Gohan stopped training he left these trio.

Future Trunks trained with the supreme Kai in his time.
He could have got a huge power up thanks to that.

At best he'd get as strong as Gohan (which is doubtful because he didn't even train with Supreme Kai, merely some tips to beat Dabra and Babidi) after some Z-sword training, which is still leaps and bounds weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Base Goku & Vegeta right now.

So either we ignore the whole copy-Vegeta thing, as anyone with the beginnings of common sense should or Trunks apparently has considerably bigger potential than Gohan all of a sudden.

Hoh, wait my friend. I never said Trunks is as strong as god Goku and Vegeta.
I just said it wont be very strange if he surpassed every Buu arc fighter. Potential is something that changes each time.
Gohan was supposed to have the biggest potential, but Goku and Vegeta outstripped him in every way.

Trunks escaped 17 years after he destroyed future Cell.
Imagine him training for 17 years. He could be easily above Buuhan and possible SSJ Vegito, yet way below Godku and Godgeta.

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 08:33 PM

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 07:20 PM

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 06:20 PM

RealSociedad

Jun 28 2016, 06:17 PM

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 04:31 PM

lazerbem

Jun 28 2016, 02:11 AM

Quote:

 

He was the only saiyan always keeping up with Goku and Vegeta

This is the same guy outright called a novice by Cell and his own admission. Trunks was by most accounts no fighting genius.

This.

Trunks trained in the ROSAT after seeing Goku and Gohan and still didn't reach their heights (probably because he had no sparring partner) and was referred to as a novice in terms of battle experience. What could he possibly have done to reach God tier alone in his timeline?

Goku had the Otherworld training to reach ssj3 and the god ritual.

Vegeta had godly training from Whis.

Gohan trained with the z sword and then had his hidden power released and surpassed all Boo saga fighters but that level of power is now a joke compared to base Trunks who was alone in the future?

If an explanation was offered it'd be fine...but it won't be. It just turns past villains and heroes into a joke for struggling to get where they got.

Nah, not true. Trunks was at the same tier as Vegeta in de Cell games arc. Power wise they were even. Goku was stronger yes, but there was never a huge gap between Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku.
These 3 were always above the others with the exception of Gohan, but since Gohan stopped training he left these trio.

Future Trunks trained with the supreme Kai in his time.
He could have got a huge power up thanks to that.

At best he'd get as strong as Gohan (which is doubtful because he didn't even train with Supreme Kai, merely some tips to beat Dabra and Babidi) after some Z-sword training, which is still leaps and bounds weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Base Goku & Vegeta right now.

So either we ignore the whole copy-Vegeta thing, as anyone with the beginnings of common sense should or Trunks apparently has considerably bigger potential than Gohan all of a sudden.

Hoh, wait my friend. I never said Trunks is as strong as god Goku and Vegeta.
I just said it wont be very strange if he surpassed every Buu arc fighter. Potential is something that changes each time.
Gohan was supposed to have the biggest potential, but Goku and Vegeta outstripped him in every way.

Trunks escaped 17 years after he destroyed future Cell.
Imagine him training for 17 years. He could be easily above Buuhan and possible SSJ Vegito, yet way below Godku and Godgeta.

Not a chance. The reason Goku and Vegeta bypass him is because they get access to a form of power he doesn't even know he exists. Nor did Trunks even get his potential unlocked by Old Kai, hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he never even saw the Z-sword or did anything with it.

If just any training made you really strong, strong enough to go from worthless fodder in the Cell Games to above Vegetto, then Tien and Piccolo should be strong enough to murder Boohan going by that logic.

Just training isn't enough, its HOW you do it. And Trunks has literally done no form of training to justify a power increase to put him anything above Majin SS2 Vegeta at absolute best. He didn't train under Whis, he didn't do the ritual, he didn't get an Old Kai potential unlock or even use the Z-sword, hence Trunks potentially being stronger than any Boo tier fighter is total. Absolute. Bullcrap.

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 09:49 PM

One of the themes of Dragon Ball is that potential and birth rights don't matter. Goku, a low class saiyan becomes the strongest fighter because of who he is and how he was raised/trained. So type of training does matter. The point is that every time a wall was reached Goku found a special way around it.

Grandpa Gohan's upbringing < Roshi's training < Korin's training < Ultra Divine Water < Popo/Kami's training < King Kai's training/Kaioken/10 times gravity < 100 times gravity < sparring with Piccolo < ROSAT/sparring with Gohan < Otherworld training < God ritual < Whis' training

Goku had immense struggles and help to get where he got. It isn't about potential but opportunity. Trunks is unlikely to have had any of those.

All I could argue is that Trunks has had zenkai after zenkai fighting Black but then Black has to be the worst killer ever.

Quote:

 

A Saiyan stops getting Zenkai after attaining Super Saiyan.

ekrolo2

Jun 28 2016, 11:05 PM

superperfectnerd

Jun 28 2016, 09:49 PM

One of the themes of Dragon Ball is that potential and birth rights don't matter. Goku, a low class saiyan becomes the strongest fighter because of who he is and how he was raised/trained. So type of training does matter. The point is that every time a wall was reached Goku found a special way around it.

Grandpa Gohan's upbringing < Roshi's training < Korin's training < Ultra Divine Water < Popo/Kami's training < King Kai's training/Kaioken/10 times gravity < 100 times gravity < sparring with Piccolo < ROSAT/sparring with Gohan < Otherworld training < God ritual < Whis' training

Goku had immense struggles and help to get where he got. It isn't about potential but opportunity. Trunks is unlikely to have had any of those.

All I could argue is that Trunks has had zenkai after zenkai fighting Black but then Black has to be the worst killer ever.

A Saiyan stops getting Zenkai after attaining Super Saiyan. And all of those training methods you stated? Future Trunks doesn't have half of them. He doesn't have a sparring partner or a gravity machine or the ROSAT or the Z-sword or Old Kai's potential unlock or afterlife training or the god ritual or Whis' training.

Take those away from Goku and he wouldn't be one one-thousandth as powerful as he is now. That's the point of the matter here: Trunks doesn't have the training methods to justify a power increase this vast. Training just for training sake doesn't mean jack if you don't have constantly escalating methods of it to help push yourself harder, which Trunks doesn't in the future at all.