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What is wrong with "White pride"?
Topic Started: Jun 24 2016, 06:16 PM (1,839 Views)
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It's the connotations of it. The racism is implied because many racist groups use the same rhetoric and excuses that you have here. Only their need to show off white pride is an excuse to act bigoted and superior. So no it's not inherently racist to have white pride but the associations that come with such an idea are.



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Tinny
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Honestly even the places where it might make sense to have a white pride movement (say, North Korea), white people are more seen as evil invaders trying to destroy the shire than simpleton savages or plain sick like blacks or gays have been seen as here. So it doesn't quite work 1:1 there either. Maybe if whites end up being oppressed by an empire of of Asians or blacks for hundreds of years then a white pride movement can pop up and not seem ridiculous and racist, but that's not likely to happen, not in our lifetimes at least, certainly not the whole cycle.
Edited by Tinny, Jun 24 2016, 07:24 PM.
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* Mitas
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Also, currently I'd argue that 'Muslim pride', at least in the UK and the US (although I'm sure the same can be said for other nations), is one type of pride that would not be seen as a good thing from outside parties. While for slightly different reasons, that is also down to negative connotations that are synonymous with Muslim people these days. I'm sure that German people could say the same thing shortly after WWII (and possibly to this day, I'm not sure whether people would still feel the same way today). So it does seem to be largely about negative connotations that come with the subject of your pride, although more on a mainstream scale since there are obviously atrocities committed that are almost or equally as bad, but just not in the forefront of the attention of the general populations here in the UK & US.
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You already have pride if you're not a marginalized group. This is why something like Armenian pride is different, for instance
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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So from what I'm gathering, because whites have allegedly been the dominant race more than anyone else facing almost no discrimination from anyone, they do not have the same right to be proud of who they are than everyone else?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but China was the most dominant country/region in the Asiatic area for millennia and is still considered so while Germanic/Anglo peoples were still living in treehouses and forests in North West Europe fighting eachother over which version of Odin/Wodan/Alföðr were better. Many Chinese dynasties were notorious for barbaric acts against those of non-Chinese origin (and even Chinese origin) as well as having many slaves and discriminatory practices. At this point Germanic/Anglo peoples were still in tribes fighting and killing eachother over which version of Alföðr was better and sacrificing each other to their gods. They were also attacked and conquered for a time by the Roman empire, being forced in to servitude and squalor. It wasn't until after the fall of the Western Roman empire that Anglo/Germanic peoples started gaining real power in the world and thus because the "dominant" race. There's also the Kievan Rus which was in a similar situation to the Anglo/Germanic peoples, was attacked, conquered, and enslaved by Mongol invaders and only after the Mongols settled in the area now known as Mongolia did they fully recover.

I would agree with you all if you say the current generation of whites and even the past generation in primarily white counties are entitled and have not known real adversity, but to say that adversity and discrimination to whites largely does not exist throughout history and throughout the world is a huge understatement and pretty much racist.

I'll be 100% candid about my views on race. It matters, racial identity is a good thing, but pride is a useless emotion and anyone who dwells on past glories or achievements of other men and women and not themselves deserves ridicule and harassment.

Anyway I'm glad civilized discussion on this is possible, other sites I've tried this on devolve in to "ur a f***ing racist prick" or "f***face marak just f***en ban me already"



Edited by Helvius Pertinax Augustus, Jun 24 2016, 08:33 PM.
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I think we've got a pretty intelligent, civil community here. We can usually have pretty engaging debates on most things (religion aside maybe) without it devolving into name calling and judgements, even if we do't necessarily agree.

I'd be interested in hearing why you believe race matters.
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I also never understood this, but I think it has to do with whites being the first race to essentially conquer the modern world and infiltrate and destroy different cultures by doing so.

White Europeans throughout history have been known to conquer and divide societies.

Basically the entire the modern world was conquered and infiltrated by white Europeans over the past 500 years.
Africa was largely conquered by the French, and White America used Africans as a way to further their own trade (slavery).
The Americas and the Asian countries were conquered by the British and Italians, South America and Central America the Spanish, etc.

The list goes on.

We whites don't have a good reputation when it comes to how we deal with societies different than our own, but most of what we know and take advantage of in the modern world was driven by European ingenuity and conquest over the past couple thousand years.
Most of our basic knowledge about medicine, science, weaponry, and architecture comes from European inventions and practices.
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I know that a lot of other people have already commented, but this is my opinion.

"Black pride" and "gay pride" aren't about being proud of a person's skin color or sexual orientation; they're about being proud of the strength they have maintained despite the discrimination they face, on both an individual and a collective level. Throughout history and even recently, blacks and gays have been openly discriminated against. Black and gay pride is mostly about remembering the past and trying to persevere in a society that continues to discriminate against them in many ways.

I'm proud to be bisexual because, despite all the s*** I've gone through over the years due directly to my sexual orientation, I have managed to persevere and still be happy. I'm proud of myself for getting through it all, and for facing possible discrimination every day just by being who I am. I would assume it's a similar experience for other LGBT people or even black people.

"White pride" clearly isn't about that. White people have never been discriminated against because of the color of their skin, nor do they face discrimination on a daily basis because of their race. It's foolish to be proud of your race, but it isn't foolish to be proud of the strength you've maintained despite the struggles you face.

Hope that makes sense.
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Quote:
 
"White pride" clearly isn't about that. White people have never been discriminated against because of the color of their skin,

They have(Slavs and Armenians), but the rest of the post is spot-on. There is currently none, to my knowledge
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Wasn't Slavs more in line with what happened to the Jews? And wasn't Armenian genocide religion based?


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lazerbem
Jun 24 2016, 09:46 PM
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"White pride" clearly isn't about that. White people have never been discriminated against because of the color of their skin,

They have(Slavs and Armenians), but the rest of the post is spot-on. There is currently none, to my knowledge
I know that they have in the distant past, but not recently, and certainly not in America. Either way, not in the grand scope that blacks or gays have been.
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Jun 24 2016, 06:53 PM
Daemon Keido
Jun 24 2016, 06:38 PM
The reason is because white pride has a history of almost always devolving into white supremacy with all the racism that comes with that change in thought.
That's the same for all racial pride groups, but again only whites are targeted specifically. The New Black Panther party, Nation of Islam, Nuwaubian Nation of Moors, and Tribu KA are a few Black Supremacist groups. Japan had the whole supremacy thing going on for them in the early 1900s and there's still a lot of Anti-foreigner sentiment in Japan right now. Cambodia had the Khmer Rogue going on, Jews have Zionism, and those in South America have a plethora of supremacist groups to choose from from all groups and races.

The only group that until recently wasn't about supremacy was the LGBT movement.
I never said racial pride doesn't turn into racial supremacy with non-white races. It just happens most frequently with whites. I am more than willing to admit racial surpremacy occurs with every skin colour.

Can you admit that most times "White Pride" was shouted in streets that it was used as a rallying cry to silence anyone who was not white, sometimes violently so, instead as a simple desire to celebrate their achievements?
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Wasn't Slavs more in line with what happened to the Jews? And wasn't Armenian genocide religion based?

If you mean that the Nazis hated Slavs and Jews both and wanted to destroy all of them, then yes. Slavs are quite white, but not Aryan, so that was racism there. As for the Armenians, no, the big propaganda surrounding it was making an exclusively Turkic empire with the non-Turks being killed. It's possible some of it was religion based, but more likely it had to do with them not being Turks. I would also say that the discrimination against Jews is discrimination against whites, but I am aware that whether or not Jews count as white is hazy territory.
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I know that they have in the distant past, but not recently, and certainly not in America. Either way, not in the grand scope that blacks or gays have been.

I would argue being genocided and being treated terribly before hand is on the same scale, but yes, it's not a recent issue in the western world(though I believe the Slav discrimination problem still exists in Eastern Europe)
Edited by lazerbem, Jun 24 2016, 10:40 PM.
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Jun 24 2016, 09:49 PM
lazerbem
Jun 24 2016, 09:46 PM
Quote:
 
"White pride" clearly isn't about that. White people have never been discriminated against because of the color of their skin,

They have(Slavs and Armenians), but the rest of the post is spot-on. There is currently none, to my knowledge
I know that they have in the distant past, but not recently, and certainly not in America. Either way, not in the grand scope that blacks or gays have been.
Armenian genocide was pretty dam bad but yeah it wasn't in the U.S
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jun 24 2016, 10:55 PM.
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I don't see why pride always has to tie back to discrimination and such.

Other people make it about that because black people are proud because of overcoming adversity and whatnot.

It's not like the word itself actually means that.


Why can't whites be proud of the technology and stuff we've founded?
We largely shaped the modern world and while some of that is absolutely terrible, some of it is pretty f***ing cool and there's nothing wrong with appreciating that in my opinion until you're treading on "it's because white people are better that they did this" territory.


Which is basically just what people assume is being said, it's their own fault they think it's racist right off the bat.
It's like how whenever a whitey puts on brown make up people are instantly like OMG RACIST when there's no ill intent at all. Even when it's a child some people are like "Wow 6 years old and already a racist, what is this world coming to" basically the same logic.
(not that white supremacy doesn't exist and isn't widespread)


Overall I see nothing wrong with white people basically saying "Yeah, we're good too!" why can't people just look at it that way instead of assuming it's an attack on every other race?

How can we possibly treat each other as equals if we can't let everyone be happy about who they are and where they came from in some way? Excluding a large group of people from that sentiment is the dumbest thing.
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