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Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan Blue
Topic Started: Jun 23 2016, 04:32 PM (10,945 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Okay, so now that we've been told that Super Saiyan Goku is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta at 10% of his strength, I think we're finally be able to to gauge how these 3 forms compare. I'd like everyone's input on this, but as things stand now, I like to think Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue are essentially the new Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3. In other words, Super Saiyan is still a 50 times boost, Super Saiyan God is twice that, and Super Saiyan Blue is 4 times Super Saiyan God.

Vegeta: 10
-Super Saiyan: 500
-Super Saiyan Blue: 4,000
--10%: 400

Son Goku: 10
-Super Saiyan: 500
-Super Saiyan God: 1,000
-Super Saiyan Blue: 4,000

Hit: 600
-Full Power: 3,000
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滅Are you frightened?

So they're all the same stats as SEG's only in another tier of power? Sucks.
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ekrolo2
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I think that's how Toyotaro sees them but you've got to remember that manga Goku n Vegeta are still under Piccolo who the manga didn't show train and treated like fodder until he nearly beat Frost. Implying their base forms aren't much stronger than usual.

Toriyama did say that Goku and Vegeta's Super Saiyan would grow more powerful though so I think its likely Super Saiyan's gotten well past its usual 50 times increase. Possibly higher than even 3s.
Edited by ekrolo2, Jun 23 2016, 05:20 PM.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

I don't think that's what Toriyama meant. Super Saiyan's multiplier getting bigger just creates more problems I feel. Now, assuming these forms work the way I think they do, I have to then wonder if Super Saiyan Blue is significantly stronger than the Super Saiyan God Goku that fought Beerus. If it is, that still advances the power scaling beyond what I thought it did, making Beerus more than 4 times stronger than Super Saiyan God. If it's not, I guess we merely have to assume the Super Saiyan God Goku is using against Hit is merely a suppressed state, and Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan God's full power.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jun 23 2016, 06:16 PM.
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ekrolo2
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ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
Jun 23 2016, 06:15 PM
I don't think that's what Toriyama meant. Super Saiyan's multiplier getting bigger just creates more problems I feel. Now, assuming these forms work the way I think they do, I have to then wonder if Super Saiyan Blue is significantly stronger than the Super Saiyan God Goku that fought Beerus. If it is, that still advances the power scaling beyond what I thought it did, making Beerus more than 4 times stronger than Super Saiyan God. If it's not, I guess we merely have to assume the Super Saiyan God Goku is using against Hit is merely a suppressed state, and Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan God's full power.
The big question mark comes from how strong the Base Saiyan's are in the manga. Given how Piccolo performs against Frost and how Vegeta still felt the need to use Super Saiyan to beat him despite him getting beaten down and exhausted from two matches beforehand, that hints that they're definitely not as strong as they are in the movies or TV show in base. Specifically because Piccolo isn't shown or mentioned to have gotten any significant strength boost.

We don't know how Toyotaro would've done F for the Super manga but we do know that Goku & Vegeta needed to team up in his version to beat Golden Freeza. Once again hinting that manga Goku & Vegeta aren't as strong as their animated counterparts.

That's why I think the idea of Super Saiyan getting stronger is one worth entertaining.
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Izanagi!

We can assume that Piccolo trained in the manga. It doesn't have to be explicitly shown and given how much the Manga has been following the Anime up 'till this point, I think it's fair to fill in the gaps that are present in the Manga with what happened in the Anime.
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ekrolo2
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Nagito Komaeda
Jun 23 2016, 06:38 PM
We can assume that Piccolo trained in the manga. It doesn't have to be explicitly shown and given how much the Manga has been following the Anime up 'till this point, I think it's fair to fill in the gaps that are present in the Manga with what happened in the Anime.
Eh, I don't know about that. When Vegeta and Goku talk about Gohan nothing is mentioned or shown about him training with anyone and everyone, including Piccolo himself, writes him off as fodder meant to soften Frost up for Vegeta.

Plus the manga diverges from the anime in the very first arc in many noteworthy ways, there is no fusion being useless against Beerus comment, there is no comment about Rageta being stronger than Goku or being strong enough to force 1/10th of Beerus' power and the last fight happens when Goku's exclusively in Super Saiyan God, even taking a bit from the movie where they fight across the planet before going up to space.
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breaker335
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Quick Question: Isn't the anime the defacto canon of Super or are we just gonna ignore it and look at the manga?
Edited by breaker335, Jun 23 2016, 07:53 PM.
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ekrolo2
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breaker335
Jun 23 2016, 07:52 PM
Quick Question: Isn't the anime the defacto canon of Super or are we just gonna ignore it and look at the manga?
Toriyama's been basically involved with every version of Super there is. He's the most involved with the two movies since he wrote both of them, then there's the manga which he reportedly oversees page by page and then there's the anime where he's seemingly the least involved story-wise.

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breaker335
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ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 07:55 PM
breaker335
Jun 23 2016, 07:52 PM
Quick Question: Isn't the anime the defacto canon of Super or are we just gonna ignore it and look at the manga?
Toriyama's been basically involved with every version of Super there is. He's the most involved with the two movies since he wrote both of them, then there's the manga which he reportedly oversees page by page and then there's the anime where he's seemingly the least involved story-wise.

Now this I don't get because the anime is so far ahead and for the most part, the manga's been following it.
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ekrolo2
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breaker335
Jun 23 2016, 07:58 PM
ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 07:55 PM
breaker335
Jun 23 2016, 07:52 PM
Quick Question: Isn't the anime the defacto canon of Super or are we just gonna ignore it and look at the manga?
Toriyama's been basically involved with every version of Super there is. He's the most involved with the two movies since he wrote both of them, then there's the manga which he reportedly oversees page by page and then there's the anime where he's seemingly the least involved story-wise.

Now this I don't get because the anime is so far ahead and for the most part, the manga's been following it.
The anime is ahead because Toyotaro's manga isn't a weekly release, it comes out once a month and he doesn't have a big page count afforded to him to get more story done within these monthly chapters. If he had say 40-50 pages to work with, I think he would've blown through the tournament even sooner than he did.

Plus, the manga jumped ahead right to the tournament and up until recently was ahead of the anime while it shot itself in the foot adapting F into an arc. Now they're basically at the same point again: the start of the Future Trunks arc.



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sekzee
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So Vegeta transformed into a SSJG again to be weaker than his SSJ or SSJ2 power?

Wat.
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魔王子

So it would seem.
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ekrolo2
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Is Vegeta at 1/10th of his Blue power weaker than his Super Saiyan? Surely not since he'd just use Super Saiyan if it were more effective. I know he's weaker than SSGoku at that level.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Goku and Vegeta are equals, so that tells me Vegeta's SSJ Blue battle power was weaker than his SSJ power.
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