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Why I think Frieza>Base Goku
Topic Started: Jun 21 2016, 10:40 PM (3,224 Views)
+ Emmeth Jun 23 2016, 02:50 AM Post #61
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I ♥ Yoeri
Clearin
Jun 23 2016, 02:43 AM
I actually have Goku and Vegeta making pretty huge gains after the Cell Games. Whether or not that translates into being stronger than Piccolo I'm not sure, though Vegeta's dialogue would imply it. Not base Gohan though.
Given the time frame and especially in Goku's case, they should've made much bigger gains imo, considering they only barely surpassed SSJ2 Kid Gohan.
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Saberoph Jun 23 2016, 02:53 AM Post #62
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 I have them making large gains, but that's only because I have a very large gap between Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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+ Clearin Jun 23 2016, 02:56 AM Post #63
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Emmeth
Jun 23 2016, 02:50 AM
Clearin
Jun 23 2016, 02:43 AM
I actually have Goku and Vegeta making pretty huge gains after the Cell Games. Whether or not that translates into being stronger than Piccolo I'm not sure, though Vegeta's dialogue would imply it. Not base Gohan though.
Given the time frame and especially in Goku's case, they should've made much bigger gains imo, considering they only barely surpassed SSJ2 Kid Gohan.
Time frame doesn't mean much, in fact 7 years is the single biggest time skip in the series iirc, and it wouldn't be the biggest gain, not by far.

As for SSj2 Kid Gohan, I have him getting a rage boost in the Cell Games, so they didn't surpass Gohan himself, they surpassed his rage boost.
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+ Emmeth Jun 23 2016, 02:56 AM Post #64
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I ♥ Yoeri

 That's where people vary, obviously. I don't have monster gap between them, although not the smallest either. Either way I don't think Piccolo fits into it where he'd be inferior to the Base Saiyans unless Toriyama decided to do it on a whim.
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Saberoph Jun 23 2016, 03:00 AM Post #65
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 That's where I'm different, I don't give Gohan any rage boast at all during the Cell Games. Personally, I believe that was the point of Gohan's power disappearing as quick as it shows itself, that it stays this time...showing that Gohan is now in control of his power.

But that's just me.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 23 2016, 03:00 AM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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ekrolo2 Jun 23 2016, 10:59 AM Post #66
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Saberoph
Jun 23 2016, 03:00 AM
That's where I'm different, I don't give Gohan any rage boast at all during the Cell Games. Personally, I believe that was the point of Gohan's power disappearing as quick as it shows itself, that it stays this time...showing that Gohan is now in control of his power.

But that's just me.
I think people give him another boost on top of the SSJ2 one to put him closer to Super Perfect Cell.
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+ Clearin Jun 23 2016, 11:08 AM Post #67
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 That wouldn't really be necessary, if you don't believe in a rage boost then surely you just make Cell weaker than if you did. It only really matters that SPC is ~SSj2 Gohan, it doesn't matter how strong Gohan is exactly.
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ekrolo2 Jun 23 2016, 12:33 PM Post #68
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Clearin
Jun 23 2016, 11:08 AM
That wouldn't really be necessary, if you don't believe in a rage boost then surely you just make Cell weaker than if you did. It only really matters that SPC is ~SSj2 Gohan, it doesn't matter how strong Gohan is exactly.
I agree, personally, I think you can make it work if you simply say Cell's regeneration cost him a good deal of energy in-spite of his Zenkai. Allowing Gohan a simple x2 boost while still giving him a realistic shot at taking on SPC.
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+ Sandy Shore Jun 23 2016, 12:43 PM Post #69
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ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 12:33 PM
I agree, personally, I think you can make it work if you simply say Cell's regeneration cost him a good deal of energy in-spite of his Zenkai. Allowing Gohan a simple x2 boost while still giving him a realistic shot at taking on SPC.
Why do you need to come up with some explanation to make Cell weaker during the fight, instead of just having him weaker? Gohan is the benchmark, not Cell, and Cell received a zenkai, not a transformation.

I get the idea you're thinking Cell's power needs to double, and since he was stronger than SSJ Gohan this would put him past SSJ2 Gohan, but that's not true. His power increased, is all.
Edited by Sandy Shore, Jun 23 2016, 12:48 PM.
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ekrolo2 Jun 23 2016, 12:45 PM Post #70
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Lazuli
Jun 23 2016, 12:43 PM
ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 12:33 PM
I agree, personally, I think you can make it work if you simply say Cell's regeneration cost him a good deal of energy in-spite of his Zenkai. Allowing Gohan a simple x2 boost while still giving him a realistic shot at taking on SPC.
Why do you need to come up with some explanation to make Cell weaker during the fight, instead of just having him weaker? Gohan is the benchmark, not Cell, and Cell received a zenkia, not a transformation.

I get the idea you're thinking Cell's power needs to double, and since he was stronger than SSJ Gohan this would put him past SSJ2 Gohan, but that's not true. His power increased, is all.
That's just a byproduct of his Super Saiyan 2 look for me :P

For some reason, when I see him with that aura I just assume he got twice as strong as he used to be.
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+ Pointer Jun 23 2016, 02:43 PM Post #71
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...

 So what is the deal the difference between buu and frieza is less than the difference between ssj and ssj3?

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Saberoph Jun 28 2016, 10:12 AM Post #72
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ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 10:59 AM
Saberoph
Jun 23 2016, 03:00 AM
That's where I'm different, I don't give Gohan any rage boast at all during the Cell Games. Personally, I believe that was the point of Gohan's power disappearing as quick as it shows itself, that it stays this time...showing that Gohan is now in control of his power.

But that's just me.
I think people give him another boost on top of the SSJ2 one to put him closer to Super Perfect Cell.
I know, but even I still don't use rage boasts from that point on. For me I have ASSJ x4 SSJ and SSJ3 x6 ASSJ, for me it makes more sense.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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ekrolo2 Jun 28 2016, 10:33 AM Post #73
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Saberoph
Jun 28 2016, 10:12 AM
ekrolo2
Jun 23 2016, 10:59 AM
Saberoph
Jun 23 2016, 03:00 AM
That's where I'm different, I don't give Gohan any rage boast at all during the Cell Games. Personally, I believe that was the point of Gohan's power disappearing as quick as it shows itself, that it stays this time...showing that Gohan is now in control of his power.

But that's just me.
I think people give him another boost on top of the SSJ2 one to put him closer to Super Perfect Cell.
I know, but even I still don't use rage boasts from that point on. For me I have ASSJ x4 SSJ and SSJ3 x6 ASSJ, for me it makes more sense.
Yeah I've stopped using that idea too, give what level Cell is on and how Zenkai work, it makes more sense to give the standard SS2 boost and then just say Cell's Zenkai got him to Gohan's level. Similar to how Goku's last Zenkai put him on par with Freeza.
Edited by ekrolo2, Jun 28 2016, 10:33 AM.
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Saberoph Jun 28 2016, 10:37 AM Post #74
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 Yeah, that's how I see it too.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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ahill1 Jun 28 2016, 08:32 PM Post #75
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 Good play on the SSJ2 Gohan and Dabra stuff, Mike. Gotta side with you on this. I'd like to have the base Saiyans approaching Perfect Cell tier due to implications of them outstripping Piccolo (who should be way stronger than the likes of Semi Cell) and Kaioshin being surprised by their powers, but the latter was pretty much well explained by Mike and the former could be explained by other ways.

Well, I'd not put the base kids any amount above 18 and this puts a cap on the adult base Saiyans power, unless I change the SSJ's multipliers for the kids and the adults, which I'm fine with too.

Edited by ahill1, Jun 28 2016, 08:32 PM.
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