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- Why I think Frieza>Base Goku
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| Why I think Frieza>Base Goku | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 21 2016, 10:40 PM (3,223 Views) | |
| + Son-Goku | Jun 21 2016, 10:40 PM Post #1 |
孫悟空
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So many people don’t think that Base Goku would be weaker than Frieza and it something that is excepted by a lot of people. But I’m one of those people that doesn’t think that’s the case. I’ve always thought that Base Goku was weaker than Frieza even before the statement by Beerus was made. It just only supported my idea. Obviously throughout the years Goku has had some massive increases in power and so people just think that, that increase would naturally become larger and larger so in time his base power would surpass even Frieza. Frieza was regarded as the strongest being in the Universe at the time and King Kai warned Goku about him knowing that even with years of training he couldn’t reach that level. However, the Super Saiyan transformation that increased his base power by x50 gave him the edge he needed to completely outclass Frieza. The whole point of the Super Saiyan transformation the rest of the series was so the saiyans could keep up with the villains. Which is why they focused more on strengthening specifically their Super Saiyan forms, not their base forms, gaining powers like 2nd Grade Super Saiyan and Full Powered Super Saiyan. The saiyans were relying on their Super Saiyan transformations and were continually delving deeper into the powers with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3. They were training their bodies more so to reach out further in their transformations then they were in their base forms. After the Frieza Saga we rarely ever saw Goku fighting the main villains in his base form. He was always fighting as a Super Saiyan or a higher level of it. Now at this point you could argue that along with training their Super Saiyans their base powers increased super super high. And maybe they did but there isn’t any proof their power did increase that much. Super Saiyan transformations have huge increases so their power is always going to be much larger in those states. That is another reason later in Dragon Ball Super why Goku’s and Vegeta’s base powers are so incredibly high is because Whis told them they needed to stop relying on their Super Saiyan forms. So not only did they increase their base forms to ridiculous level they had also mastered just their normal Super Saiyan forms so they didn’t have to resort to Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 with the expense of so much energy loss. These are just a few reasons why I think Frieza is still stronger than Base Goku. A lot of you probably won’t agree but I hope it at least makes you understand my opinion a bit more. |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 12:24 AM Post #2 |
 
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One of the biggest problems with this is, there isn't some magic number on top of the SSJ Multiplier, if their SSJ increases at a certain rate then so does their Base. Also, you would have to completely ignore the Trunks Vs. No 18 fight, Kaioshin stating that he could easily beat Frieza, but then being proved inferior to Base Goku with Yakon. Which Goku only went SSJ to have a source of light and even states as such. You would also have to make all the increases from Frieza to Boo as small as possible, yet the increases are implied to be the opposite. As for Berrus' line... He was basing it off Goku's physical appearance and it makes 0 sense for Goku to walk around with his Base at 100%, he would end up destroying everything he touches. It makes more sense for his Base to about close to if not in the single digits when he's being casual. |
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| Slifer | Jun 22 2016, 12:32 AM Post #3 |
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If Dr Gero can take two normal, teenage kids and technologically enhance them to be stronger than Super Saiyans, then I don't see why a Super Saiyan's Base can't surpass Freeza after years of intense training in the afterlife and alternate dimensions. |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 12:43 AM Post #4 |
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I forgot to add, that Post Zeta Sword Gohan would end up completely breaking this logic due to the fact that his ASSJ is in the ballpark of Fat Boo, who is SSJ3 tier, which would make his Base Boo arc SSJ tier. Even though I do understand why people use minimum increases. Edited by Saberoph, Jun 22 2016, 12:44 AM.
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2016, 12:47 AM Post #5 |
I ♥ Yoeri
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I don't think Kaioshin was completely proven to be weaker than the Saiyans when Goku fought Yakon. Goku wasn't dominating Yakon and on top of this Kaioshin was afraid of Babidi's magic. I can see something like this: FP Freeza - 150 Base Goku - 120-130 Yakon - 160-170 Kaioshin - 220 |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 12:51 AM Post #6 |
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But Kaioshin says that him, Goku, Vegeta and Gohan should team up and they "might" manage something...that doesn't come off as confidence in winning. Also, Goku was taken by surprise once, but after that Yakob couldn't do anything, and Goku even resulted to insults and clearly wasn't taking him seriously. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2016, 12:54 AM Post #7 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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I can see Kaioshin thinking Yakon would be around 250 though through Babidi's magic. I think it's emphasized a few times that he fears Babidi's magic. |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 12:56 AM Post #8 |
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Maybe, but the say Kaioshin talks about being superior to Frieza, he makes it sound like he's far above that and if Kaioshin believes a combined attack "might" get the job done, then by default Yakon should be a lot stronger than Frieza too. I'm not denying he doesn't fear his magic, but that scene is pretty clear power wise. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2016, 12:59 AM Post #9 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Why does Yakon need to be stronger than Freeza? The only one who needs to be stronger than Freeza is Dabra, because he's stated to be around Cell. I'm just saying there's a possibility Kaioshin is vastly overestimating Pocus and Yakon's powers. I think it's pretty clear that Pocus is nothing compared to the Saiyans, and mostly the gimmick makes Yakon seem "strong". |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 01:04 AM Post #10 |
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Because Kaioshin states that himself is stronger than Frieza, then later on says that All need to team up to beat Yakon. For him to come to that conclusion, he would need to be comparing what he senses from the Saiyajins and add that to his own, and he still wasn't confident in winning. Then Goku steps up on his own and shows that he clearly is superior to Yakon without SSJ. For that to make sense, Yakon needs to be at least close enough to Kaioshin for him to crap himself like he did. If anything it seems Kaioshin was underestimating the Saiyajins and wasn't aware of what was on Earth. Edited by Saberoph, Jun 22 2016, 01:04 AM.
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2016, 01:09 AM Post #11 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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Dabra seems to think Yakon will be enough for the Saiyans, even after he along with Babidis said that the Saiyans had the most dormant power. Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P1.4-6 Context: after Babidi says to send Yakon to Stage 2 Dabra: “Yakon!? You’re already going to use Yakon on Stage 2!?” Babidi: “…We probably shouldn’t underestimate those Earthlings…They did Pui-Pui in before he could inflict any damage at all…” Dabra: “…I see. But with Yakon as their opponent, they’ll all be defeated instantly. I won’t get to have any fun.” Also, Gohan seems to think that Goku would potentially need some help with Yakon. Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P6.5 Context: after Yakon eats Goku’s Super Saiyan light Gohan: “Father, I’ll fight too! If there’s two of us, then we’ll be able to win without becoming Super Saiyans!” That indicates to me that Yakon is indeed a bit stronger than Goku, especially in the dark. I'll put my money on Kaioshin overestimating Babidi's magic rather than him underestimating the Saiyans tbh. |
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| + Six Trails | Jun 22 2016, 01:16 AM Post #12 |
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Quick question. Is Yakon also stronger than SS2 Gohan? |
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| Saberoph | Jun 22 2016, 01:17 AM Post #13 |
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But then why did Goku still have the advantage even in the dark? Yakon couldn't touch him... This still doesn't have the whole Frieza being stronger side of things. Also, you still have Vegeta's line right in front of No. 18, who is well known for a loudmouth and would have shut Vegeta down if he was wrong. Just look at the way she talks to her own husband. @Mike: He shouldn't be if Base Goku is able to knock him around and still have an advantage in a real that's supposed to give Yakon one. Edited by Saberoph, Jun 22 2016, 01:18 AM.
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Six Trails | Jun 22 2016, 01:20 AM Post #14 |
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But why would Kaioshin think that they need to team up against Yakon if he was weaker than SS2 Gohan? He sensed Gohan not too long before at the tournament; he was even thinking about it right before Goku fought Yakon. |
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| + Emmeth | Jun 22 2016, 01:22 AM Post #15 |
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I ♥ Yoeri
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I don't have the same opinion as you, I think Yakon had the advantage. That's why Goku had to turn Super Saiyan, I don't think Goku would've done that unless he had to. I still think Kaioshin thought Yakon was much stronger than he was. The thing is, we never see Kaioshin fight Yakon, so we couldn't possibly say, without a single doubt, that Yakon is indeed stronger than Kaioshin. Vegeta is also known for not keeping his word. Who's to say Vegeta wouldn't turn SSJ in the tournament? |
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