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- SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 pre-Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Kid Gohan and Super Perfect Cell.
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| SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 pre-Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Kid Gohan and Super Perfect Cell. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2016, 12:28 AM (1,704 Views) | |
| + Pyrus | Jun 18 2016, 07:35 AM Post #16 |
 
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SS2 Goku - 10 SS2 Gohan - 8.5 Abominable Cell - 8 SS2 Vegeta - 7.5 Somewheres around there, so Vegeta would be able to hold off Cell long enough for Goku to finish Gohan and come to his rescue. |
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| RealSociedad | Jun 18 2016, 10:52 AM Post #17 |
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SSJ2 Goku here is way more skilled then SSJ2 Gohan. He has undergone 7 years training in other world. He should be able to destroy SSJ2 Gohan in about 5 minutes is he fights very serious. Dont forget that Gohan is cocky in the beginning of the fight, but if he gets damaged enough he gives op and then Goku would finish him quickly. SSJ2 Vegeta would have troubles with SPC, but he would hold long enough to get help from SSJ2 Goku. No way in hell that SPC is stronger then SSJ2 Goku. Goku would be enough in this point (though he might be weakened after that fight against Gohan) but fighting with Vegeta against Cell should ensure their victory. The full blood saiyans wins. |
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| Skywalker | Jun 19 2016, 06:13 AM Post #18 |
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Depends on how fast Vegeta loses, if he can wait long enough for Goku to bail him out then they win. Otherwise Goku gets gangraped. |
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| + miguelnuva | Jun 19 2016, 07:55 PM Post #19 |
 
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Ssj2 Goku> Ssj2 Ragehan>Ssj2 Vegeta>Ssj2 Gohan>/= SPC> Ssj2 Ragehan 1 arm. I'm giving this to Goku and Vegeta. |
  Gogeta power placement | |
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| Goku9000 | Jun 20 2016, 01:42 AM Post #20 |
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I think Buu Saga Goku was a whole lot stronger than Gohan was in the Cell games. Here is what I have: Cell Games - Mssj Goku - 140 Suppressed Cell - 145 - 165 Mssj Kid Gohan - 150 Ssj2 Kid Gohan - 300 FP Cell - 180 [Buff-220] SPC - 280 Buu Saga - Mssj Goku - 200 Ssj2 Goku - 400 Ssj Vegeta (Pre-Majin) - 150 Ssj2 Vegeta (Pre - Majin) - 300 I have Goku and Vegeta winning here, Goku would beat SPC rather easily, and Vegeta would be dead even with Gohan. Once Goku finishes off Cell, he helps Vegeta and they crush Gohan. It had been 7 years, Vegeta probably trained his a*** off and so did Goku, so I believe they both surpassed Cell by then, but if anyone disagrees please reply. Edited by Goku9000, Jun 20 2016, 01:45 AM.
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| EMIYA | Jun 20 2016, 02:00 AM Post #21 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Don't forget, not only was Majin Vegeta considered on the same playing field as SSj2 Kid Gohan from Piccolo's comment. But just the burst alone from Goku when fighting Yakon was enough for Vegeta to see he was inferior. To put that in another perspective, Goku (who Majin Vegeta rivals) wasn't even stated to have surpassed SSj2 Kid Gohan until he used his full power. I don't have Pre-Majin Vegeta anywhere near the likes of Gohan, but that's honestly another debate. But its really hard to get Pre-Majin Vegeta on, much less above Kid Gohan's level. Plus, let's not forget that Babidi brought Vegeta's potential beyond his limits. |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 20 2016, 02:03 AM Post #22 |
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I've been convinced over the years that Vegeta doesn't need to be massively inferior to Goku for him to seek Babidi's help. He knew he had 1 day to fight Goku and that was it. It's not like he could go back to his gravity chamber for another year and then demand a fight. He was running out of time and Babidi was a quick way to get what he wanted. That said, Vegeta could conceivably be on par with Kid Gohan and it would still take all things into consideration as far as I'm concerned. Vegeta (pre) =< Goku (burst) =< Kid Gohan < Goku can work. Although personally, I like having him moderately behind Goku in order to justify his selfishness a bit more. Vegeta (pre) < Goku (burst) < Kid Gohan < Goku fits better for me, pun intended. Edited by Pyrus, Jun 20 2016, 02:05 AM.
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| Goku9000 | Jun 20 2016, 02:18 AM Post #23 |
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I mean, it seems very possible that Pre-Majin Vegeta could match up to Kid Gohan at the Cell Games. Kid Gohan only trained for a year in the ROSAT to reach the immense power he had when fighting Cell, but before then he would be no match for any villain in that saga. Vegeta in the Cell Games was no doubt much weaker than Kid Gohan, but he trained for seven years afterwards, it's very possible that he was on par with Cell Games Gohan by then. |
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| EMIYA | Jun 20 2016, 03:00 AM Post #24 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I usually have about the same gap between Pre-Majin Vegeta and Goku as it was in the Cell Game. More or less I usually just have the gap anywhere between 1.3-1.5x. It's almost shocking to think that Vegeta was so desperate, that he not only went out of his way to get his potential unlocked past his limits, but was willing to be enslaved by Babidi as well. What's funny is that Babidi's control as we see in the manga, is different from when he releases someone's potential. In such a case, Babidi would put the person under control and then later if he felt like it, release their potential. Imagine if he didn't do that latter? Wow Vegeta would've been screwed. Then he goes up and starts killing people, all to have a fight with Goku. Some people even try to claim that Vegeta never even wanted to kill Goku, just beat him. For anyone who does think Vegeta is close to, even more so stronger than Gohan at this point, it's quite something to see Vegeta do all of this, just to have a fight. A fight I might add, did not even last a full chapter in the manga. It makes you wonder. Was it really worth selling your soul, killing a bunch of innocent lives, releasing a demon and basically having everyone you know murdered just so you could jump up a few numbers? Worse when he realizes that Goku was screwing with him anyways when he withed SSJ3. This went way past merely wanting to be stronger. |
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| Goku9000 | Jun 20 2016, 03:36 AM Post #25 |
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No doubt Pre-Majin Vegeta was weaker than Goku, it's quite obvious. He wanted surpass Goku so bad he was willing to have his mind put under the control of Babidi. Still though, he may have been weaker than Goku, but I really don't think he was weaker than Kid Gohan. If he was, then it would probably be hardly noticeable. Ssj2 Majin Vegeta = Ssj2 Goku > Ssj2 Vegeta ~ Ssj2 Kid Gohan >= Super Perfect Cell I have an approximate 1.3x gap between Ssj2 Goku and Pre-Majin Ssj2 Vegeta, I think that's reasonable. It may seem like the gap should be much higher and Vegeta should've been much stronger when he became Majin Vegeta, because look at what happened to Spopovich. But with Spopovich it was really his durability that increased more not his power, in my opinion he was only able to stomp Videl due to his durability, she broke his neck and he just put it back together. She was getting tired as hell, and once she started running out of energy, Spopovich took the lead and tore her apart. Edited by Goku9000, Jun 20 2016, 03:38 AM.
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| + miguelnuva | Jun 20 2016, 04:13 AM Post #26 |
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The Burst doesn't haven't to be stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta knows Goku is stronger at SSJ and base the burst to me shows that Vegeta now knows Goku has gotten ssj2 as well. As far as I'm concerned none of the statements by any character me Goku and Majin Vegeta are not that far ahead of Gohan only that all three are in the ssj2 ballpark. |
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| + Clearin | Jun 20 2016, 07:40 AM Post #27 |
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It was pure desperation on Vegeta's part. This was his only day to get a chance to fight Goku, and now he knew he'd blown it. |
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| EMIYA | Jun 20 2016, 05:01 PM Post #28 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Does he though? I feel it would be very uncharacteristic of Vegeta not to at least assume Goku would've had attained the transformation at some point. He knows the kind of genius fighter Goku is, if he could attain it, then to think Goku couldn't have is quite astounding. You'd think that if SSj Goku (against Yakon) was stronger than him, he'd make some mental note about it. Though even still, the burst was what made Vegeta realize his inferiority right? If SSj Goku (against Yakon) was superior to SSJ Vegeta, then once Goku transforms, shouldn't you still get Burst Goku>SSJ2 Vegeta? Unless Goku's SSJ2 amp was smaller so that Vegeta's own SSj2 amp surpassed it. Likewise you'd still have Burst Goku weaker than Gohan and by virtue of that, Vegeta as well. |
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| + miguelnuva | Jun 20 2016, 09:25 PM Post #29 |
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I disagree. SSJ2 was Vegeta's trump card. We know with the ascended forms vs MSSJ that Vegeta didn't think Goku would be stronger than him from training from the ROSAT and he was stubborn to the point he refused to follow Goku's training plan and master super saiyan the second time he went in the ROSAT. Your statement about Vegeta assuming Goku has ssj2 goes out the window for these reasons. 1. Goku and Vegeta both say that can handle Dabura yet Goku is shocked when Majin Vegeta goes SSJ2. 2. Vegeta as we know is shocked when Goku goes SSJ2 in his burst. 3 As point 1 and 2 show both are shocked when the other is revealed to have gone beyond the super saiyan wall. 4. Vegeta can sense Goku is stronger in base, so he knows Goku would be stronger as a SSJ and as a SSJ2. In order for Vegeta to be confident before needing Babadi is that either he has a new attack or he is counting on his SSJ2 beating Goku's MSSJ. Because Burst Goku isn't Goku's full ssj2 power all the burst needs to do is show Vegeta that Goku has gone beyond the super saiyan wall which it did. The burst could be weaker than SSJ2 Teen Gohan at the tournament and still get that job done. The Burst is weaker than Gohan but I don't believe the burst is weaker than Vegeta as I said before. SSJ2 Goku=Majin Vegeta>SSJ2 Ragehan>SSJ2 Vegeta>/=SSJ2 Gohan>SPC> 50% SSJ2 Ragehan As for Piccolo that is a whole different thing because one could argue he is sensing tires and not power levels. |
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| ekrolo2 | Jun 20 2016, 09:29 PM Post #30 |
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Vegeta and Goku both still use Gohan's old power as a benchmark of strength, implying that while both of them are stronger than he was, its not a vast chasm of difference. The big x factor in all of this is Cell. He's never really brought up as a benchmark except with Dabra so this tells me that Gohan was still stronger than him but probably not by a whole lot. I'd say Goku and Vegeta could win this but it really depends on the weaker fighters. If Vegeta beats Cell and then helps Goku against Gohan, they'll have it in the bag, if Cell takes out Vegeta, Goku's thoroughly screwed. |
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