KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:29 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:21 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 09:51 PM

As with everything else posted in this thread, I'm not debating - I'm correcting you.

This is absolutely sickening.

Respect is a two way street:

Quote:

 

I'll let you know I'm only debating you because I find it amusing, not because I take you seriously.

So no, I don't consider this a debate. I provided you with many different sources, answered your questions, and humored your unwarranted insults enough.

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:48 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:29 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:21 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 09:51 PM

As with everything else posted in this thread, I'm not debating - I'm correcting you.

This is absolutely sickening.

Respect is a two way street:

Quote:

 

I'll let you know I'm only debating you because I find it amusing, not because I take you seriously.

So no, I don't consider this a debate. I provided you with many different sources, answered your questions, and humored your unwarranted insults enough.

You are acting superior when you're not, this is what disgusts me. I don't have anything against you as a person because I don't know you. I'm not taking this seriously anymore because it's just a cartoon when it comes down to it and it doesn't matter who is stronger. I'm just having fun with it.

I appreciate you providing sources, but they don't prove anything.

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

This supersedes everything said prior to this situation and it's not contradicted later. If AT says Goku is the strongest, he's referring to EoZ Goku, where I can see Goku being stronger. If he says Goku is strongest in the Boo arc, he clearly has no respect for his work and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Counter all you want, but this is what it comes down to. Goku wants to fight Pure Boo, doesn't want to fight Super Boo. It's pretty black and white to me.

Quote:

 

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P4.2-4, P6.3-6
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are attacked by evil Boo
Goku: “Alrii—iight! Come at me if you’re gonna. I’ll open up a huge hole inside your body! *Boo smiles* Wh-what are you smiling about?...Do you think I can’t open one?”
Boo: “It’s no use.”
Goku: “Don’t underestimate me.”
*Goku blasts, not much happens*
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “…It di-didn’t have any effect…”
Boo: “It stung a little here *points at head*, that’s all. You guys are now far, far smaller than fleas.”
Goku: “…So we’ve got no choice but to defeat you and then search for an exit somewhere.”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:57 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:48 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:29 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:21 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 09:51 PM

As with everything else posted in this thread, I'm not debating - I'm correcting you.

This is absolutely sickening.

Respect is a two way street:

Quote:

 

I'll let you know I'm only debating you because I find it amusing, not because I take you seriously.

So no, I don't consider this a debate. I provided you with many different sources, answered your questions, and humored your unwarranted insults enough.

You are acting superior when you're not, this is what disgusts me. I don't have anything against you as a person because I don't know you. I'm not taking this seriously anymore because it's just a cartoon when it comes down to it and it doesn't matter who is stronger. I'm just having fun with it.

I appreciate you providing sources, but they don't prove anything.

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

This supersedes everything said prior to this situation and it's not contradicted later. If AT says Goku is the strongest, he's referring to EoZ Goku, where I can see Goku being stronger. If he says Goku is strongest in the Boo arc, he clearly has no respect for his work and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Counter all you want, but this is what it comes down to. Goku wants to fight Pure Boo, doesn't want to fight Super Boo. It's pretty black and white to me.

And you're being dismissive on ground that you believe that your opinion is worth more than Toriyama or his staff.

Anyhow, after that statement, Goku was already willing to face Buu:

Quote:

 

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P4.2-4, P6.3-6
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are attacked by evil Boo
Goku: “Alrii—iight! Come at me if you’re gonna. I’ll open up a huge hole inside your body! *Boo smiles* Wh-what are you smiling about?...Do you think I can’t open one?”
Boo: “It’s no use.”
Goku: “Don’t underestimate me.”
*Goku blasts, not much happens*
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “…It di-didn’t have any effect…”
Boo: “It stung a little here *points at head*, that’s all. You guys are now far, far smaller than fleas.”
Goku: “…So we’ve got no choice but to defeat you and then search for an exit somewhere.”

And I'm glad we agree that all preceeding statements are rendered invalid when new information is provided (such as Toriyama confirming Kid Buu is the strongest) and statements like:

Quote:

 

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

No one else could have stopped Buu, the story is very clear about that, it's also clear about calling Goku number 1 (the strongest)
And all these refute that one statement that you continue to hold on to, even though every statement afterwards basically proves it's bulls***.

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 11:31 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:57 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:48 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 10:29 PM

Emmeth

Jun 17 2016, 10:21 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 17 2016, 09:51 PM

As with everything else posted in this thread, I'm not debating - I'm correcting you.

This is absolutely sickening.

Respect is a two way street:

Quote:

 

I'll let you know I'm only debating you because I find it amusing, not because I take you seriously.

So no, I don't consider this a debate. I provided you with many different sources, answered your questions, and humored your unwarranted insults enough.

You are acting superior when you're not, this is what disgusts me. I don't have anything against you as a person because I don't know you. I'm not taking this seriously anymore because it's just a cartoon when it comes down to it and it doesn't matter who is stronger. I'm just having fun with it.

I appreciate you providing sources, but they don't prove anything.

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

This supersedes everything said prior to this situation and it's not contradicted later. If AT says Goku is the strongest, he's referring to EoZ Goku, where I can see Goku being stronger. If he says Goku is strongest in the Boo arc, he clearly has no respect for his work and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Counter all you want, but this is what it comes down to. Goku wants to fight Pure Boo, doesn't want to fight Super Boo. It's pretty black and white to me.

And you're being dismissive on ground that you believe that your opinion is worth more than Toriyama or his staff.

Anyhow, after that statement, Goku was already willing to face Buu:

Quote:

 

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P4.2-4, P6.3-6
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are attacked by evil Boo
Goku: “Alrii—iight! Come at me if you’re gonna. I’ll open up a huge hole inside your body! *Boo smiles* Wh-what are you smiling about?...Do you think I can’t open one?”
Boo: “It’s no use.”
Goku: “Don’t underestimate me.”
*Goku blasts, not much happens*
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “…It di-didn’t have any effect…”
Boo: “It stung a little here *points at head*, that’s all. You guys are now far, far smaller than fleas.”
Goku: “…So we’ve got no choice but to defeat you and then search for an exit somewhere.”

And I'm glad we agree that all preceeding statements are rendered invalid when new information is provided (such as Toriyama confirming Kid Buu is the strongest) and statements like:

Quote:

 

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

No one else could have stopped Buu, the story is very clear about that, it's also clear about calling Goku number 1 (the strongest)
And all these refute that one statement that you continue to hold on to, even though every statement afterwards basically proves it's bulls***.

Since I'm lazy I'm not gonna organize all the quotations and just address your points like this.

If Toriyama is dismissive of his own work, why should I take him seriously? It shows that he doesn't care about statements at all, which makes his opinion invalid.

That statement is not about fighting Super Boo, it's a ploy to find a weak spot. Just because Goku challenges him to fight doesn't mean he's ready to fight him. They are inside his body after all.

And lastly, and this has been addressed many times already in different threads, Goku is the only guy who can take care of Pure Boo because Gohan is not present. He's dead. And when he's alive Vegeta's plan to eliminate Pure Boo was the only good option anyway, placing huge importance on the Genki-Dama, an attack that has been stated as the most powerful move of all time. Vegeta says it's high time the Earthlings take some responsibility and help defeat Boo. Nobody says anything about Gohan being weaker than Goku.

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

If Toriyama and his staff are in agreement on what his intentions are, who are you to be dismissive of his intentions.

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

That's what this has come to, no one and nothing is more valid than your own (obviously) incorrect (according to Toriyama) understanding of the story.

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

Those comments I posted about Buu are made AFTER Gohan has been revived, so that response just isn't valid.

Emmeth

Jun 18 2016, 01:18 AM

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

If Toriyama and his staff are in agreement on what his intentions are, who are you to be dismissive of his intentions.

I make my own opinion based on statements in the manga. Toriyama has been proven to be forgetful of his own work, so why would I take him seriously?

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

That's what this has come to, no one and nothing is more valid than your own (obviously) incorrect (according to Toriyama) understanding of the story.

KidBuu55

Jun 18 2016, 01:04 AM

Those comments I posted about Buu are made AFTER Gohan has been revived, so that response just isn't valid.

Completely ignore the other part of my answer. AT didn't want to end the series with Gohan beating Pure Boo, he wanted it to be special and have the Spirit Bomb do it. Doesn't matter who's stronger.

Quote:

 

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.

Clearin

Jun 18 2016, 02:10 AM

I'm assuming these are the sources you're referring to:

Quote:

 

Says Toriyama in a recent interview:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Unrivalled/scan0004zh3.jpg~original

Says the Daizenshuu, created by his staff with his input:
http://web.archive.org/web/20111007094607/http://kanzentai.com/trans.php

Daizenshuu 2 : "Goku's feelings are only understood by his fellow strongest."
Daizenshuu 4: "Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most cool?
A: "I think it's Goku." The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
Daizenshuu 2: "Goku was the only one who could fight Buu."
Daizenshuu 2: " He continues to always seek the strongest! Having gotten Buu to be reincarnated, Goku waited for him above all else."
Daizenshuu 7: (Gohan's Bio outright calls him weaker than Goku): He potentially has wondrous power greater than Goku. Even with great evil gone from the world, he continues to punish the city's evildoers as a hero of justice.

In the first link it wasn't Toriyama who called Kid Boo the strongest, it was the interviewer. Not only that, but it doesn't mean Kid Boo is stronger than Super Boo. Look at another one of the characters listed, "Young Goku". Are you going to argue that Kid Goku is stronger than Adult Goku? The question is basically just saying Toriyama makes really small and weak looking characters strong, you're not supposed to take it extremely literally that all the characters mentioned ARE the strongest.

Even if you do take it literally, Kid Goku's inclusion means that it refers to the strongest at a certain point in the story, not the strongest version of a particular character. In this case, Kid Boo could be the strongest when Super Boo no longer exists, and Gohan is dead. Of course many would argue that SSj3 is slightly stronger, but on top of that being debatable, it's a much more minor error.

All the Daizenshuu quotes weren't written by Toriyama, so I'm just gonna straight up ignore them. I've already given my stances on the guidebooks - anything they say that isn't taken directly from the manga is just made up by them. Other than the Toriyama interviews, there's no proof any of the information they get is from Toriyama.

And lastly, in that Daiz 4 interview you're mis-attributing the quote. The interviewer asks "Out of all your characters who do you think is the most cool" and Toriyama replies "I think it's Goku" AND THAT'S IT. The "Always pure strongest in the universe" is an additional comment by whoever wrote the page.

Quote:

 

Are you going to argue that Kid Goku is stronger than Adult Goku? The question is basically just saying Toriyama makes really small and weak looking characters strong, you're not supposed to take it extremely literally that all the characters mentioned ARE the strongest.

Quote:

 

Vegeta's and Goten's comments in Super?
Comments in the guidebooks?
Toriyama's words?
Anime statements?
Manga statements?
Statements from his editors?

Quote:

 

t should be noted that although Akira Toriyama is listed as the author for all of the Daizenshuu, he actually had very little involvement with the production of their content, if any at all. Toriyama makes it quite clear in most of his Daizenshuu introductions that “they” (Shueisha) are responsible for putting these together, and he is often graciously humble in thanking them for all their hard work in sorting through his exhaustive series.

-Kanzenshuu

Albus Dumbledore

Jun 18 2016, 03:11 AM

Quote:

 

Q: Vegeta's and Goten's comments in Super?
A:Many, many years after the fact.

Quote:

 

Q:Comments in the guidebooks?
A:The guidebooks < A.T ( Note the shark eats the bigger one always, meaning A.T is more important then any guidebooks that the shark ate it)

Quote:

 

Q:Toriyama's words?
A: There are none in the manga that suggest what you are suggesting. If Goku was so mighty and powerful why be scared of Super Buu and not Kid Buu? Because he stepped up to the plate and took a swing at somebody in his range then get brutally dismantled by Super Buu, is your answer,

Quote:

 

Q:Anime statements?
A .... Its the anime, need I say more?

Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it's the anime and the manga!

Quote:

 

http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/index.shtml
Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with filler.
STATUS: False (and there are some interesting things, here!)

Quote:

 

Q:Manga statements?
A There are none. Read above.

Quote:

 

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Quote:

 

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Quote:

 

Q:Statements from his editors?
A:Its not A.T though.... What ever the thoughts or intentions of editors were don't matter, they are there to help A.T not write the damn material outright, Heck its well known that A.T even got away with a lot and did mostly what he wanted.