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Yeah, and? Once again, and? The SKoT is also practically a kid and she can be responsible. See that's actually a fair argument, as we know literally nothing about him. But again, Goku was literally the only person it wouldn't have worked on. It would have killed Roshi as well frankly, unless you're now telling me he's evil. Goku was mire pure than any of them.

And Hit? What about him? And again, Champa would have realized he just threatened someone much stronger than him that he needs alive and competing in the next tournament, but from everything we've seen, Champa is perfectly fine, he didn't have a realization that he made a threat someone that could kill both him and Beerus if he felt like it. It doesn't matter how close they are, the fact that he's even somewhat superior is very telling that Goku wasn't even at 10% of Beerus.
If Goku and Vegeta were even at 11% in ssjgssj, Goku would be stronger using that form while Hit would be more powerful than the gods period.


Sigh, this is basically Monaka all over again, slightly less so since I doubt they'll pull the same thing twice... Maybe.

Hit

Jun 16 2016, 05:53 PM

Basically every character has lied, so I guess we can't use any statement at all.

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Can your prove he's as pure as kid Goku then? This is your idea being put forward from what I can tell. What's your backing saying he's as pure (and I suppose as naive) as Kid Goku? From what I can tell he only sounds like a kid, he deals with Beerus and Champa very much like an adult addressing his children or employees. That doesn't suggest the innocence you suggest he has, if anything he seems more mature at first glance than the SKoT.

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Where did I say that? Actually let me just say this before someone tries to be cute. I am saying that Goku's entire growth hasn't gotten him past 10% and that they've never gotten past 10% without kaioken, not Goku, and certainly not Vegeta .Beerus lied about using ten percent, why, I have no idea but Goku isn't stronger right now. Why do we think we're saying the gods are liars? Because they tell the truth?

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I don't even know why I'm arguing about whether Omni-King is good or evil because:
1.He wouldn't destroy universes without a good reason. He cares about the balance and fairness of universes and doesn't seem the type of guy that destroys them just because he wanted to. I'm assuming they're going to give us a good reason as to why he destroyed them.

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 16 2016, 08:46 PM

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I don't even know why I'm arguing about whether Omni-King is good or evil because:
1.He wouldn't destroy universes without a good reason. He cares about the balance and fairness of universes and doesn't seem the type of guy that destroys them just because he wanted to. I'm assuming they're going to give us a good reason as to why he destroyed them.

That's not true in the slightest. We get a statement from Whis saying that he destroyed the six of them purely due to them slighting him in some way, and Beerus was worried that he was going to destroy U6/7/both when Goku walked up to him and tried to talk/shake his hand. Doesn't seem like the type of character to have a really good reason to destroy, does he?

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At this point I'm convinced you're not interested in what I'm saying regarding the beam (namely that Roshi, Yamcha, Bulma, and Krillin would all have died, and that good men have died to it due to them having some evil in their hearts, even if they never let it control them) so let's just move on from that (at least confirm or deny would tell me something but you've ignored it entirely that it doesn't require a overall evil man, it requires someone with some, literally any amount of evil in them, no matter how small and insignificant).

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All of this hinges of Hit and Goku being more powerful than Champa let alone Beeerus. It's not impossible but it's heavily implied to ultimately be weaker, otherwise they wouldn't have acted as they did at the end, and Champa would have reacted differently.

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There's a difference between a possibility and a reality. Show me where it's stated or implied or shown that Champa goes on to do anything about Hit or at the least worry about it after the tournament. If Hit, who is stronger than Goku after all that is still weaker than Champa (who in no way has even been implied to have done anything about Hit, whether it be training or being terrified), how is Goku stronger than Beerus?

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There's a difference between a possibility and a reality. Show me where it's stated or implied or shown that Champa goes on to do anything about Hit or at the least worry about it after the tournament. If Hit, who is stronger than Goku after all that is still weaker than Champa (who in no way has even been implied to have done anything about Hit, whether it be training or being terrified), how is Goku stronger than Beerus?

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Him why destroying the universes is debatable. He could have destroyed them because he got mad and felt like it, or he destroyed them because the people living in there disgusted him and didn't deserve to live, or the universes were evil... there's a lot of room for theorizing. All we're given is a vague statement is that he got angry and destroyed them. whether it was intentional or not, we don't know. if it was intentional, we don't know why he destroyed them.
Like I said, He doesn't seem to be the type of guy that destroys universes just because he feels like it. That's why he hires god of destructions.

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Why doesn't he seem like the type of guy? He's had, what, a few minutes of screen time? In that we've seen both Beerus and Champa freaking out about Goku potentially upsetting the Omni-King just by trying to talk to him. As for him destroying the Universes for a good reason, Whis didn't make it sound like that at all. It sounded as if the Omni-King destroyed the Universes on a whim due to them slighting him, something which Beerus (who is definitely evil in some regards) does.

You're making a ton of assumptions here, some of which go against the tone and implications that we're given. We can see that the Omni-King is mature enough to be responsible for his own actions, so if he did destroy them in annoyance/anger, then he's 'evil'. If he destroyed them for a good reason, why wouldn't Whis elaborate on that?

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What do you think everyone else did that makes them evil?

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I never argued that, I have argued that Beerus lied about using 10% or Hit would be able to kill Champa whenever he wants.

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Frankly? I can't reconcile him being scared and him being a Big shot later on anyway, since he never reverts back to his fear. It seems to be an outlier frankly considering everything else points towards Champa not being afraid. There is no explanation, it's just the same bs that happens whenever dbs wants to make a power statement.

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No, I'm saying if we're nor shown it in any capacity, it doesn't exist. Has there been any stated reason for them still being stronger? No, they were simply slash at this level.

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The fact that Champa at no point shows ant fear outside of that one instance is rather telling however.

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... Rageta>ssjg>ssjgssj>ssjgssjkkx10>Beerus. The part I disagree with is that he used a whole ten percent on Rageta. He clearly hasn't or a Goku and Hit would be far stronger than now. Beerus did get stronger, he was retconned to be stronger, and that combined with every ssjgssjkkx10 means that those statements regarding power are now false. In other words, the gods are liars.

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They say every so often that "they're getting closer" but it's always a lie, they never got anywhere. Ssjg got him close supposedly, making him use up allot taking him on, except as of the latest episodes are any indication that was less than ten percent of his strength (as was Rageta, Rageta is still presumably weaker than ssjg). Them we have ssjgssj Goku and Vegeta, who were said that if they teamed up they'd win against Beerus. Once again, U6 throws that under the bus, unless they mysteriously became weaker, they never got to even 10%. Let's not even discuss 6/10/15. We also have Beerus sweating and Champa being scared, but not even after that episode we have Champa acting the big shot and Beerus implying that if they all fought together they'd still die, not only that but neither Champa nor Beerus seem at all amazed that they've become so strong or closed in so fast or anything suggesting they've gained significant ground. Everything saying they're gaining ground or getting close is shot down later.
So Beerus never used 10% on Vegeta, he didn't use it on ssjg either. And with how they keep buffing Beerus for no reason, I wouldn't be surprised if he was still below ten percent, but that's predicting future retcons at this point.