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Is There A Way to Justify Dabra>Super Perfect Cell?
Topic Started: Jun 13 2016, 11:33 PM (5,903 Views)
KidBuu55 Jun 17 2016, 06:20 AM Post #121
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 04:24 AM
It is a copout.

The hair, aura and no sparks shows that Gohan is clearly a SSJ not ASSJ.

To say Gohan was ASSJ against Dabra, you have to justify and provide evidence as to why all three traits not being present in their fight.

Which is something you have not.
I don't have to provide anything to you, I'm not playing by your rules.

You're wrong, pitch a fit and throw a tantrum. You wanted to use the anime/daizenshuu/manga and you lost on all of those, so your fall back is the art, which also doesn't agree with you.

Maybe, instead of walking into a conversation having your mind made up, you could be more receptive to new information - you've all but abandoned your previous talking points because you know you have no leg to stand on at this point.

Hair strand is present as a SSJ and not as a SSJ2 when he fights Dabura (and Buu)

Verdict: SSJ2
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EMIYA Jun 17 2016, 06:50 AM Post #122
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Gohan's a special little boy? I mean literally every single Super Saiyan 2 we see in the manga shares the same characteristics. Jagged aura, lightning, stern expression. but Boo Arc Gohan? He's the special little boy who can share all the traits of a Super Saiyan but somehow be Super Saiyan 2.

That...actually makes Gohan even weaker than before. At least Budokai Gohan had the traits, but now, he's so weak he doesn't even have the proper traits of the SSJ2 transformation. I wonder what happen if he tried turning Super Saiyan? Would he be in base? And wow, just knowing how weak Gohan here is, poor Dabura couldn't even beat him.

I gave Dabura the benefit of the doubt and put him around Perfect Cell against Goku. I think I need to re-evaluated my point because he may not even be on the Cell who fought Vegeta.
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Saberoph Jun 17 2016, 08:28 AM Post #123
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 But here's the problem...

Spoiler: click to toggle


But I'm sure you're going to make up as many excuses as possible to get out of this one.

And yes the burden of proof is on you, because I've presented multiple points actually proving Gohan is SSJ not ASSJ and all you've done is make excuses. So yes, you do need to bring proof or you're trolling which is against forum rules, which means until you do prove real points every post you make from here on out is fair game for reporting.

Your move.
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KidBuu55 Jun 17 2016, 12:36 PM Post #124
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 08:28 AM
But here's the problem...

Spoiler: click to toggle


But I'm sure you're going to make up as many excuses as possible to get out of this one.

And yes the burden of proof is on you, because I've presented multiple points actually proving Gohan is SSJ not ASSJ and all you've done is make excuses. So yes, you do need to bring proof or you're trolling which is against forum rules, which means until you do prove real points every post you make from here on out is fair game for reporting.

Your move.
You again posted the same photos as if it's going to change what was shown.

Statements: Again, We have statements from Kaioshin that state Gohan was 1. Holding back at the TB and 2. Showed a power stronger than what he did as a SSJ2 at the TB

Anime: shows Gohan as a SSJ2 (specifically from the concept art)

Guidebook: states Gohan was a SSJ2

Drawings: Shows Gohan was a SSJ2

Here is his aura while fighting Buu, literally JUST like the aggressive SSJ2 aura

Spoiler: click to toggle

Spoiler: click to toggle



We already pointed out the hair strand, so we know you're incorrect there as well.

Logic: Gohan couldn't match Cell as a SSJ 7years ago, he cannot match a STRONGER person while he himself is weaker, it literally make ZERO sense.
With Cell, one hit made him bleed - with Dabura it damaged his clothes.

Edited by KidBuu55, Jun 17 2016, 12:37 PM.
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Saberoph Jun 17 2016, 02:07 PM Post #125
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 You're stalling and ignoring what I presented.

I pointed out Gohan's aura when he fought Dabra and using the Zeta Sword and his SSJ at the Budokai, and I never said Gohan wasn't ASSJ when Fat Boo shows up...just about everyone believes he was.

I presented evidence that Gohan's hair, aura and lack of sparks means he's SSJ not ASSJ. Instead of acknowledge that, you try to direct the conversation towards something else.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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+ Clearin Jun 17 2016, 02:29 PM Post #126
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 02:07 PM
I never said Gohan wasn't ASSJ when Fat Boo shows up...just about everyone believes he was.
But he didn't have sparks then either
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Saberoph Jun 17 2016, 02:35 PM Post #127
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 Very true, so either Toriyama either forgot to add them or he was SSJ.

I think one thing that really messed everyone up was his redesign for Gohan, he should've left it alone.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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+ Sandy Shore Jun 17 2016, 03:42 PM Post #128
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To trim down the debate, and since we've both expressed our side on the rest of it at some length, I just want to reply to this point:
EMIYA
 
Some theorize that this is after Vegeta powered down. For example we never actually see him revert to base, even when he's knocked down by Cell, he still remains as a Super Saiyan. Plus when we see him after he fires his blast, he's panting heavily. It would make sense that Vegeta would throw out a strong attack as an SSJ (which let's be honest, did nothing more than distract Cell) and power down because he's used too much energy.

Otherwise, we'd have to assume that Vegeta not only bothered to power down to base, he decided to attack in base. Not really a smart Vegeta moment.
If we hadn't seen the anime, we all would've presumed that Vegeta's blast came from him in base, since that's all we're shown. Taking the path of least resistance, and no seperate canon, we get Vegeta's blast coming from his base form.

It's not optimal, but it was apparently enough to get the job done. Besides, he might've been too weak to even transform at that point.
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+ Clearin Jun 17 2016, 03:48 PM Post #129
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 I think Vegeta being a Super Saiyan in the anime was to make it so that Vegeta's blast being the one to distract Cell makes sense when Piccolo's failed.
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Griffzilla Jun 18 2016, 12:11 AM Post #130
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 Toriyama was pretty consistent in detailing the different ssj levels. Gohan appeared to be ssj to me. I don't think him or Dabura were going all out. Vegeta's frustration led me to believe that if any of them went ssj2 they would settle things quickly. I don't see Dabura being much stronger than Perfect Cell. Probably somewhere between PC when he fought Goku and his full power self. I don't think they would have been so chill if he was as strong as SPC. Honestly, he was probably about as strong as mssj Gohan during the Cell Games.
"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean
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Goku9000 Jun 20 2016, 05:57 PM Post #131
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 If Gohan was a ssj2 when he fought Dabura, then it's possible that Dabura could be close or possibly equal to Super Perfect Cell. I don't think he was a ssj2 however, nothing really implies that he was as far as I know. I would say Dabura rivals Mssj Kid Gohan in terms of power, but I still have to think about this.

EDIT: If Dabura was holding back against Gohan, then his full power should rival Mssj kid Gohan. My mistake.
Edited by Goku9000, Jun 20 2016, 06:19 PM.
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Saberoph Jun 20 2016, 06:06 PM Post #132
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 Not really, because this Gohan was a lot weaker than his Cell Games self, and Goku and Majin Vegeta were only a little stronger than Cell Games Gohan, so it doesn't make sense...especially with how Goku and Vegeta talk like Dabra is nothing.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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Goku9000 Jun 20 2016, 06:18 PM Post #133
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Saberoph
Jun 20 2016, 06:06 PM
Not really, because this Gohan was a lot weaker than his Cell Games self, and Goku and Majin Vegeta were only a little stronger than Cell Games Gohan, so it doesn't make sense...especially with how Goku and Vegeta talk like Dabra is nothing.
I actually made a mistake. I meant to say, if Dabura was suppressed against Gohan than his full power would probably rival Mssj Kid Gohan.
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Saberoph Jun 20 2016, 06:22 PM Post #134
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 Gotcha.

I don't think he was suppressed, because not even that makes sense...considering he went for his magic, sword and spit pretty quick in the fight.

That shows desperation.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
Dragon Ball Paramountcy.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

Intellectual savior of the masses.
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EMIYA Jun 20 2016, 06:39 PM Post #135
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"I am the bone of my sword."

 Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P12.1-2
Context: Babidi is concerned now that Goku and co. have defeated even Yakon.
Dabra: “…Alright then, I know what to do…I shall take away your anxiety, Lord Babidi…I shall personally go to Stage 3. Then in the blink of an eye I shall fill Majin Boo’s ball with their energy, you’ll see.”

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P12.3-4
Context: after Dabra says he’ll fight on Stage 3
Babidi: “Da-Dabra…if yo-you get done in, I’ll be finished…Do you have a chance of winning?...”
Dabra: “A chance of winning?...Fuffuffuh…I’m Dabra, king of the Demon Realm…There doesn’t exist anyone in the entire world who exceeds my power…”

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P3.1-2
Vegeta: “Hmph…Seems Babidi is really panicking, if you, his #1 man are already making your appearance…”
Dabra: “Hmph…Let’s end the pointless blather there and have all of you come at me, at once.”

*Says all of this and can barley handle weakass Gohan.*

Dabura is so full of s*** you can smell the stench from the Kaioshin planet. At least when Vegeta was arrogant, he was right half the time.
Edited by EMIYA, Jun 20 2016, 06:40 PM.
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