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Is There A Way to Justify Dabra>Super Perfect Cell?
Topic Started: Jun 13 2016, 11:33 PM (5,904 Views)
KidBuu55
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 12:55 AM

Quote:
 
You mean intentionally taking quotes out of context,


What did I take out of context? Kaioshin's quote was already provided to you here, there is no other way around that.

Quote:
 
Chapter: 471 (DBZ 277), P10.2-4
Kaioshin: “I want Gohan to use the Z Sword to defeat Majin Boo. Knowing him, he should definitely be able to use it.”
Kibito: “A-are you serious, Lord Kaioshin…?!! There’s no way that some human would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…”
Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power.”


Quote:
 
taking a guidebook that was only approved by Toriyama and not written by him(Someone who admits to making stuff up as he goes along, and even admits to forgetting key specific characters and contradicts himself)


Toriyama isn't the only person who worked on Dragonball, he had a staff which they discussed ideas with him directly, it's evidenced by the fact the ANIME outpaced the manga on HIS direction:

The Gohan vs Dabura fight was released in May 4, 1994, it didn't show up in the manga until August 4, 1994. You want to pretend that the guidebook doesn't count because it doesn't say what you want it to say, but it's indefinitely more credible than anything you (or I, or anyone else) have posted here. If you don't like Toriyama's work, why are you arguing about it?

Quote:
 
and flat out ignoring facts and feats stated in the original source material the Manga it's self?

The quote about Gohan's strength are from the manga directly.

Quote:
 
You really need to reconsider the definition of the word proof.


I'd say the same: I have the anime, manga and guidebook in agreement on this issue, you have baseless fan theory.

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Saberoph
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Since I know you won't actually post any physical evidence to back up your claims...I actually will.

Now I'm only posting the detailed and closer up scans, because the others really aren't conclusive enough to tell a difference since the further away shots have no detail.
SSJ Gohan at the Budokai


ASSJ Gohan at the Budokai


Gohan VS. Dabra


You can clearly see Gohan's hairstyle and arua is consistent with Gohan's hair and aura from his Pre ASSJ Transformation. It also doesn't help that in none of the scans in the Dabra fight that there isn't a single spark. Sure the sparks aren't 100% consistent, but they're more consistent than missing an entire fight.

Now I've posted my proof, now actually post yours.
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KidBuu55
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During the Tenkaichi Budoukai he transforms at Kibito's request. Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell.


This is under the information for SSJ2, and the only time it was mentioned that he couldn't gain power from his anger was when he was fighting Dabura.

Quote:
 
A fairly even battle unfolded between him and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Afterwards, he sensed that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous, and tried to defeat him, but was turned into a cookie and eaten. Despite being the strongest in the Demon Realm, feared even by Kaioshin, he came to an extremely pathetic end...


Dabura's bio.

Quote:
 
Since I know you won't actually post any physical evidence to back up your claims...I actually will.

You can clearly see Gohan's hairstyle and arua is consistent with Gohan's hair and aura from his Pre ASSJ Transformation. It also doesn't help that in none of the scans in the Dabra fight that there isn't a single spark. Sure the sparks aren't 100% consistent, but they're more consistent than missing an entire fight.

Now I've posted my proof, now actually post yours.


Gohan's missing the strand of hair he has as a SSJ1 in his fight with Daubra, indicating he's an SSJ2.
Edited by KidBuu55, Jun 17 2016, 03:34 AM.
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Saberoph
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Actually, the Gohan pre Budokai was drawn as an SSJ with two bangs, but it's obvious for some reason he's clearly drawn with a single bang from the Budokai and on, which is seen his pre ASSJ Transformation.

Also, let me get this straight...you're going to pretty much take one single guidebook over the original source material and visual evidence?
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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KidBuu55
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 03:36 AM
Actually, the Gohan pre Budokai was drawn as an SSJ with two bangs, but it's obvious for some reason he's clearly drawn with a single bang from the Budokai and on, which is seen his pre ASSJ Transformation.

Also, let me get this straight...you're going to pretty much take one single guidebook over the original source material and visual evidence?
Posted Image

Gohan's bang/strand of hair is visible here. It doesn't appear at all in his SSJ2 state, or in his fight with Dabura.

And once more, in the anime (which came first) the guidebook and statements in the manga say he was a SSJ2.
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Saberoph
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Gohan was Transforming from Base straight to ASSJ, so it makes sense for his Bangs to appear until he's Transformed.

It's called common sense...look it up.

Also, the Manga came before the Anime(If you you really want to be that childish), showing Gohan's hair during his Dabra fight to be drawn as an SSJ not ASSJ.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 17 2016, 03:47 AM.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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KidBuu55
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 03:44 AM
Gohan was Transforming from Base straight to ASSJ, so it makes sense for his Bangs to appear until he's Transformed.

It's called common sense...look it up.

Also, the Manga came before the Anime(If you you really want to be that childish), showing Gohan's hair during his Dabra fight to be drawn as an SSJ not ASSJ.
Gohan was already a SSJ in that photo, so that doesn't make sense.

And once more, THIS part of the anime was release MONTHS before the manga was released, meaning it was in production BEFORE that. So quit hurling insults, especially when you're wrong.
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Saberoph
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Okay smart guy, if Gohan has bangs while being only SSJ, then why doesn't he have them when he went SSJ earlier?

The Manga was drawn Toriyama, but the Anime was drawn by people at TOEI, so you're going to take the overly inconsistent Anime over the original intentions of Toriyama?
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 17 2016, 03:58 AM.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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KidBuu55
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 03:54 AM
Okay smart guy, if Gohan has bangs while being only SSJ, then why doesn't he have them when he went SSJ earlier?
No idea, but they are only present while he's a SSJ1 and not SSJ2.

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Saberoph
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That's a copout and you know it.

It's plain as day that earlier at the Budokai that SSJ Gohan didn't have any bangs, but in that one scan when transforming from Base to ASSJ he had it for one scan, but then it's gone later on when he goes SSJ.

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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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I can't find that goddamn Daizenshuu excerpt. I know it's here somewhere.
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Saberoph
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Yeah, I've seen it too.

Something told me to save it, but I didn't...I wish I had now.
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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KidBuu55
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Saberoph
Jun 17 2016, 04:00 AM
That's a copout and you know it.

It's plain as day that earlier at the Budokai that SSJ Gohan didn't have any bangs, but in that one scan when transforming from Base to ASSJ he had it for one scan, but then it's gone later on when he goes SSJ.

It's not a 'copout' - you wanted to go by illustrations because the dialogue and information didn't support your conclusion, and now you know the illustration don't either.
Edited by KidBuu55, Jun 17 2016, 04:12 AM.
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Here's one:
Quote:
 
Kibito coerced Gohan into becoming a Super Saiyan. This was in order to lure out someone who needed a large amount of energy. One of the people to notice Super Saiyan Gohan's energy was Yamu. The other one was Spopovich, who was in the match with Videl. The two of them come at Gohan to try to suck out his energy. Gohan tries to counterattack, but Kaioshin forcibly stops him and lets Yamu and Spopovich get away in order to find their evil ringleader. The one manipulating the pair was an evil wizard.

http://web.archive.org/web/20111011034439/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz02.php?m=09&id=all_battle#link

We know he was Super Saiyan 2 there, though. It's odd because it specifies Goku using Super Saiyan 3 later on.
Quote:
 
A technique that prevents the opponent from moving their body. Depending on the user, the method of using it and its effect are completely different. General Blue's version was only effective against a single opponent, and it took effect when his opponent stared into his eyes. Chaozu held out both his hands, causing immobilizing stomach pain in the targeted person. Jackie's technique was said to poke a pressure point on the forehead, paralyzing the person's motor nerves. Gurd stopped Kuririn and Son Gohan's movement through psychokinesis which t he fired from his hands, and his version was effective against multiple people. Also, Kaioshin's technique was a powerful one that completely stopped Super Saiyan Gohan from moving.

http://web.archive.org/web/20111103181628/http://kanzentai.com/trans-daiz07.php?m=04&id=attack_p-r#link

Same thing.
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Saberoph
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It is a copout.

The hair, aura and no sparks shows that Gohan is clearly a SSJ not ASSJ.

To say Gohan was ASSJ against Dabra, you have to justify and provide evidence as to why all three traits not being present in their fight.

Which is something you have not.
Edited by Saberoph, Jun 17 2016, 04:29 AM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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