Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 06:04 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 05:33 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 05:08 PM

Even if Gohan was a SSJ2, he wasn't anywhere near as strong as SPC. Why would Goku specify Gohan needing to access his anger if Gohan was using his full power during his battle with Dabra?

If Gohan as a SSJ2 was stronger than Cell (and we know this)
And weaker Gohan is fighting an enemy that is about as strong as that same Cell (as stated by Goku)

Goku tells Gohan to get mad like he was back then (when he fought Cell) - power up and beat Dabura.

There was basically no difference in power between Cell and Gohan. Gohan had the advantage, but he admits himself that Cell was a lot stronger than he thought and his previous confidence disappears.


Piccolo claims that Majin Vegeta may be stronger than Gohan was during the fight against Cell, basically telling us that the gap between the two isn't that large. Given the fact that Vegeta was willing to give his mind to Babidi in order to get to that level of power, it makes sense that he'd be a decent amount weaker, right? Yet, Vegeta seems to be under the impression that he'd dismantle Dabra easily.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

Goku supports Vegeta's ability to win alone, and instead focuses on letting Gohan win himself.

So, in summation;

Majin Vegeta/Goku aren't that much stronger than CG Gohan
A glimpse at Goku's SSJ2 scared Vegeta into going to Babidi for more power
Vegeta was more than confident in his ability to take out Dabra quickly (something that Goku supported as well)
Gohan was losing against Dabra

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 08:03 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 06:04 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 05:33 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 05:08 PM

Even if Gohan was a SSJ2, he wasn't anywhere near as strong as SPC. Why would Goku specify Gohan needing to access his anger if Gohan was using his full power during his battle with Dabra?

If Gohan as a SSJ2 was stronger than Cell (and we know this)
And weaker Gohan is fighting an enemy that is about as strong as that same Cell (as stated by Goku)

Goku tells Gohan to get mad like he was back then (when he fought Cell) - power up and beat Dabura.

There was basically no difference in power between Cell and Gohan. Gohan had the advantage, but he admits himself that Cell was a lot stronger than he thought and his previous confidence disappears.


Piccolo claims that Majin Vegeta may be stronger than Gohan was during the fight against Cell, basically telling us that the gap between the two isn't that large. Given the fact that Vegeta was willing to give his mind to Babidi in order to get to that level of power, it makes sense that he'd be a decent amount weaker, right? Yet, Vegeta seems to be under the impression that he'd dismantle Dabra easily.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

Goku supports Vegeta's ability to win alone, and instead focuses on letting Gohan win himself.

So, in summation;

Majin Vegeta/Goku aren't that much stronger than CG Gohan
A glimpse at Goku's SSJ2 scared Vegeta into going to Babidi for more power
Vegeta was more than confident in his ability to take out Dabra quickly (something that Goku supported as well)
Gohan was losing against Dabra

Your axiom is flawed, and by extension so is the premise of your argument.

Gohan was at 50% of his power in his beam struggle with Cell, when went all out he easily.

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 08:07 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 08:03 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 06:04 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 05:33 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 05:08 PM

Even if Gohan was a SSJ2, he wasn't anywhere near as strong as SPC. Why would Goku specify Gohan needing to access his anger if Gohan was using his full power during his battle with Dabra?

If Gohan as a SSJ2 was stronger than Cell (and we know this)
And weaker Gohan is fighting an enemy that is about as strong as that same Cell (as stated by Goku)

Goku tells Gohan to get mad like he was back then (when he fought Cell) - power up and beat Dabura.

There was basically no difference in power between Cell and Gohan. Gohan had the advantage, but he admits himself that Cell was a lot stronger than he thought and his previous confidence disappears.


Piccolo claims that Majin Vegeta may be stronger than Gohan was during the fight against Cell, basically telling us that the gap between the two isn't that large. Given the fact that Vegeta was willing to give his mind to Babidi in order to get to that level of power, it makes sense that he'd be a decent amount weaker, right? Yet, Vegeta seems to be under the impression that he'd dismantle Dabra easily.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

Goku supports Vegeta's ability to win alone, and instead focuses on letting Gohan win himself.

So, in summation;

Majin Vegeta/Goku aren't that much stronger than CG Gohan
A glimpse at Goku's SSJ2 scared Vegeta into going to Babidi for more power
Vegeta was more than confident in his ability to take out Dabra quickly (something that Goku supported as well)
Gohan was losing against Dabra

Your axiom is flawed, and by extension so is the premise of your argument.

Gohan was at 50% of his power in his beam struggle with Cell, when went all out he easily.

Oh, I'm well aware that his loss of confidence happens after Cell disables his arm, but Gohan's admittance of Cell's strength doesn't change;

Chapter: 414 (DBZ 220), P14.2
Context: after getting hit by Cell’s attack while saving Vegeta
Gohan: “Cell’s power has gone up more than I thought…”


Given the fact that Cell, an incredibly smart fighter, why would he come back to Earth if he was significantly weaker than Gohan? Cell was confident that he'd be able to take Gohan out, and Gohan's statement that he's powered up more than he thought is just further backing.

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 08:36 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 08:07 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 08:03 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 06:04 PM

KidBuu55

Jun 15 2016, 05:33 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 15 2016, 05:08 PM

Even if Gohan was a SSJ2, he wasn't anywhere near as strong as SPC. Why would Goku specify Gohan needing to access his anger if Gohan was using his full power during his battle with Dabra?

If Gohan as a SSJ2 was stronger than Cell (and we know this)
And weaker Gohan is fighting an enemy that is about as strong as that same Cell (as stated by Goku)

Goku tells Gohan to get mad like he was back then (when he fought Cell) - power up and beat Dabura.

There was basically no difference in power between Cell and Gohan. Gohan had the advantage, but he admits himself that Cell was a lot stronger than he thought and his previous confidence disappears.


Piccolo claims that Majin Vegeta may be stronger than Gohan was during the fight against Cell, basically telling us that the gap between the two isn't that large. Given the fact that Vegeta was willing to give his mind to Babidi in order to get to that level of power, it makes sense that he'd be a decent amount weaker, right? Yet, Vegeta seems to be under the impression that he'd dismantle Dabra easily.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

Goku supports Vegeta's ability to win alone, and instead focuses on letting Gohan win himself.

So, in summation;

Majin Vegeta/Goku aren't that much stronger than CG Gohan
A glimpse at Goku's SSJ2 scared Vegeta into going to Babidi for more power
Vegeta was more than confident in his ability to take out Dabra quickly (something that Goku supported as well)
Gohan was losing against Dabra

Your axiom is flawed, and by extension so is the premise of your argument.

Gohan was at 50% of his power in his beam struggle with Cell, when went all out he easily.

Oh, I'm well aware that his loss of confidence happens after Cell disables his arm, but Gohan's admittance of Cell's strength doesn't change;

Chapter: 414 (DBZ 220), P14.2
Context: after getting hit by Cell’s attack while saving Vegeta
Gohan: “Cell’s power has gone up more than I thought…”


Given the fact that Cell, an incredibly smart fighter, why would he come back to Earth if he was significantly weaker than Gohan? Cell was confident that he'd be able to take Gohan out, and Gohan's statement that he's powered up more than he thought is just further backing.

No one is arguing that Cell didn't come back stronger, but I am pointing out that Gohan was able to match this more powerful Cell with just 50% of his power.

If Dabura is on par or stronger than Cell, and Gohan is weaker the battle looks exactly like how we see.

Clearin

Jun 15 2016, 05:16 PM

Dabura was just so badly skilled and slow that despite his huge power it allowed SSj/2 Gohan to put up a fight against him

Quote:

 

"Dabura was there to unlock Buu, nothing else. Hell, for all we know he was about to get serious and own Gohan until Vegeta exploded. He just found it more efficient to have them fight among each other than waste his time."
" Dabura specifically said, and I showed you the scan, that he was going to fill Buu's shell with energy. No one ordered him to kill, he volunteered to go on his own accord."
"Just because Gohan was able to intercept and negate a single attack from Dabura, doesn't mean that they are on the same level. "
"The weird part about this entire thing is that you're ignoring everything that happens prior to this in order to jerk off a single panel, not even a full scan.. but a tiny little panel. I just don't understand it man, why are you even arguing this? They throw it in your face that Dabura was the superior in that fight and then even reinforced it with dialogue in the next volume. What else do you need?"
"1 panel of 1 page out of the fight. This is your founding argument."
"Gohan was getting man handled, he landed a single kick and spent the rest of the time being crowd controlled."

Pyrus

Jun 15 2016, 10:43 PM

Gohan was barely hanging on in that beam clash while Cell was calm and collected. I wouldn't even call it a beam "struggle" because the only one struggling was Gohan.