Ssj Goten and Trunks vs. Frieza on Namek

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Ssj Goten and Trunks vs. Frieza on Namek
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 13 2016, 06:09 PM (1,886 Views)
+ Six Trails	Jun 14 2016, 02:15 AM Post #31
Posts: 1,570 Group: Elite Member Member #11,764 Joined: October 23, 2014 Gender Not Specified Country United States	KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM but considering the Yo Son Goku special that they needed Fusion to match an adults SSJ Gotenks was smacking Aka in his base form, while Goku had to transform to one-shot him. How is that considered "matching"?



Saberoph	Jun 14 2016, 02:17 AM Post #32
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 02:14 AM Saberoph Jun 14 2016, 02:11 AM KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 02:08 AM Saberoph Jun 14 2016, 02:03 AM You have East Kaioshin saying he could easily defeat Frieza, but later you have him cowering in fear of Yakon and saying him Goku, Vegeta and Gohan should all team up on him...then you have Base Goku toying with him and only going SSJ because he wanted to prove he had a source of light if he needed it. None of Babidi's men have a Ki that can be sensed. All that happens is Kaioshin is being overly cautious, to which Vegeta mocks him for (until Buu starts to power up) If that's all the proof you have, I'll just chalk it up to a 'lack of understanding' and hold my position that they are indeed weaker than Freiza. And yet Kaioshin seemed to know Yakon prior to arriving on Earth, so it's safe to coming to the conclusion that he knows Yakon's power as well. Again, none of Babidi's men had a Ki that could be sensed. Being aware of their presence isn't exclusive to Ki sensing. I'll trust Kaioshin and Vegeta's statements over implications based on nothing. Yet in DBZ when someone is afraid of someone it shows they're weaker. You know the logic that's been established up to this point. But I'm expecting more dismissing and excuses and trolling.
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KidBuu55	Jun 14 2016, 02:20 AM Post #33
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Mike Jun 14 2016, 02:15 AM KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 01:38 AM but considering the Yo Son Goku special that they needed Fusion to match an adults SSJ Gotenks was smacking Aka in his base form, while Goku had to transform to one-shot him. How is that considered "matching"? Gotenks was an SSJ when he hit him a final time. Goku also hit him as a SSJ and caused him to defuse. No way that Gotenks is a SSJ3 tier fighter if Goku can easily replicate and exceed his feats.



KidBuu55	Jun 14 2016, 02:21 AM Post #34
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Saberoph Jun 14 2016, 02:17 AM KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 02:14 AM Saberoph Jun 14 2016, 02:11 AM KidBuu55 Jun 14 2016, 02:08 AM Saberoph Jun 14 2016, 02:03 AM You have East Kaioshin saying he could easily defeat Frieza, but later you have him cowering in fear of Yakon and saying him Goku, Vegeta and Gohan should all team up on him...then you have Base Goku toying with him and only going SSJ because he wanted to prove he had a source of light if he needed it. None of Babidi's men have a Ki that can be sensed. All that happens is Kaioshin is being overly cautious, to which Vegeta mocks him for (until Buu starts to power up) If that's all the proof you have, I'll just chalk it up to a 'lack of understanding' and hold my position that they are indeed weaker than Freiza. And yet Kaioshin seemed to know Yakon prior to arriving on Earth, so it's safe to coming to the conclusion that he knows Yakon's power as well. Again, none of Babidi's men had a Ki that could be sensed. Being aware of their presence isn't exclusive to Ki sensing. I'll trust Kaioshin and Vegeta's statements over implications based on nothing. Yet in DBZ when someone is afraid of someone it shows they're weaker. You know the logic that's been established up to this point. But I'm expecting more dismissing and excuses and trolling. Again, he wasn't afraid - he was being cautious, which Vegeta MOCKS him for. The whole 'gag' around Kaioshin is that he thinks eveything is a potential threat, which is why no one took him seriously when Buu was hatched. By your own logic, KibitoShinn was on par with Gotenks Buu, but because he was afraid of Kid Buu...Kid Buu was stronger. Edited by KidBuu55, Jun 14 2016, 02:22 AM.



Skywalker	Jun 14 2016, 02:27 AM Post #35
Posts: 779 Group: Member Member #5,634 Joined: January 18, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Gurren Lagann, DB/Z/Super, Naruto What Browser do you use? Chrome	They can each solo by themselves, this is an unholy rape.



Saberoph	Jun 14 2016, 02:28 AM Post #36
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Yeah, he never had any ounce of fear towards Yakon...yet when he entered the room Kaioshin freaked out over him. Actually, that would be your logic and using interviews that directly contradict the Manga by someone who even admits he doesn't remember most of what he wrote.
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Slifer	Jun 14 2016, 02:29 AM Post #37
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	You have SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks, which is absurd enough. But that also means Base Goku > Base Gotenks, which is even worse. But then even worse than that is having Freeza > Base Goku, which means Freeza > Base Gotenks, the same Gotenks Piccolo thought may have a chance against Super Boo, the same Super Boo Piccolo said SSJ Gotenks was screwed against, the same SSJ Gotenks that was stated to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku with no contradictions, the same SSJ3 Goku that wanted no part of fighting Super Boo without fusion but was perfectly content with going at Kid Boo alone. Explain that.



KidBuu55	Jun 14 2016, 02:37 AM Post #38
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Mr. Hashbrowns Jun 14 2016, 02:29 AM You have SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks, which is absurd enough. But that also means Base Goku > Base Gotenks, which is even worse. But then even worse than that is having Freeza > Base Goku, which means Freeza > Base Gotenks, the same Gotenks Piccolo thought may have a chance against Super Boo, the same Super Boo Piccolo said SSJ Gotenks was screwed against, the same SSJ Gotenks that was stated to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku with no contradictions, the same SSJ3 Goku that wanted no part of fighting Super Boo without fusion but was perfectly content with going at Kid Boo alone. Explain that. Gotenks is weaker than Goku - Piccolo only states that SSJ3 Gotenks is the strongest person Buu has faced (and the other people Buu has faced was Gohan, Vegeta, and a heavily suppressed Goku) Goku reveils to the reader he is stronger than he let on. Goku fights the strongest Villian in DBZ per Toriyama. Goku is weaker than Frieza as stated 2 times in Super/BoG And SSJ mutipliers either don't exist or are not the same for everyone. People continually want to throw them around (while they were created by another company and NOT Toriyama's staff) but want to ignore the others things that are stated in the guidebooks and manga. Even now, multipliers make ZERO sense. It would be impossible for Gohan's SSJ2 to be near Goku's SSJ3 on the Kaioshin planet while training, yet Gohan reluctantly considers the possiblity. We also have a SSJ2 Vegeta surpassing/Matching Goku.



EMIYA	Jun 14 2016, 02:53 AM Post #39
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Vegeta: "Hmph, even without transforming, by victory is still assured." Stated in the same room as freaking Piccolo and No. 18, the latter of whom kicked his a*** in the past. No. 18: "Whoa, this guy is strong, he sure packs a hard punch." Stated while fighting Trunks being hindered by a costume with Goten being dead weight. Piccolo gets called trash with everyone but Base Gohan, Goku and Vegeta are deemed worthy of having their energy taken for Majin Boo. Kaioshin outright states he could one shot Freeza but freaks out over Yakon who Base Goku held an advantage over. .... .... Meanwhile, Beerus decides to check Goku's muscles and decides, eh...that's not enough to beat Freeza. Despite the fact that he had literally just seen SSJ Goku fight in the crystal ball and was clearly only here to see the transformation. Apparently that one part there negates EVERYTHING seen in the manga. The manga wasn't just supporting Base Saiyans>Freeza, it was all but outright telling us that Base Saiyans>PIccolo.



ryan1227	Jun 14 2016, 03:00 AM Post #40
Posts: 502 Group: Member Member #13,168 Joined: May 21, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	The Base Saiyans > Piccolo statements don't make much sense given his performance in the Cell Games, but Base Trunks fighting evenly with 18 makes Freeza > Base Saiyans an impossibility, especially since Super implies Goku > Gotenks



lazerbem	Jun 14 2016, 03:02 AM Post #41
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	While on the subject of Beers, he's become a compulsive liar as of Super which makes his word on any subject questionable. Incidentally, Beers in Super is also apparently thick skulled enough to think that the best SSJ Goku could manage is beat Freeza. Because apparently he couldn't beat the Kaioshins as an SSJ? Take your pick, Beers is a liar or he's borderline "special"
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


KidBuu55	Jun 14 2016, 03:02 AM Post #42
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	EMIYA Jun 14 2016, 02:53 AM Vegeta: "Hmph, even without transforming, by victory is still assured." Stated in the same room as freaking Piccolo and No. 18, the latter of whom kicked his a*** in the past. No. 18: "Whoa, this guy is strong, he sure packs a hard punch." Stated while fighting Trunks being hindered by a costume with Goten being dead weight. Piccolo gets called trash with everyone but Base Gohan, Goku and Vegeta are deemed worthy of having their energy taken for Majin Boo. Kaioshin outright states he could one shot Freeza but freaks out over Yakon who Base Goku held an advantage over. .... .... Meanwhile, Beerus decides to check Goku's muscles and decides, eh...that's not enough to beat Freeza. Despite the fact that he had literally just seen SSJ Goku fight in the crystal ball and was clearly only here to see the transformation. Apparently that one part there negates EVERYTHING seen in the manga. The manga wasn't just supporting Base Saiyans>Freeza, it was all but outright telling us that Base Saiyans>PIccolo. Vegeta said he would win, and that never amounted to anything. 18 can't sense Ki, and thought she was facing a normal person Piccolo is apparently weak - but stronger than the base kids (who are supposedly not far off from the adults) as he is shown as the predominate power in Buu's absorption. Meanwhile, Beerus clearly has the ability to sense Ki, and states that Goku looks weak. Goku transforms and it isn't until he's actually trying to attack Beerus he makes the comment about Goku being able to best Frieza.



lazerbem	Jun 14 2016, 03:02 AM Post #43
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Beers also lies about practically everything power related.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


+ Pyrus	Jun 14 2016, 03:40 AM Post #44
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Beerus is probably one of the most pathological people in the series, more than the likes of Vegeta, Freeza, and Boo combined. Until Super is finished and Toriyama/Toei is done revving up his power whenever they deem fit, it's difficult to take what he says seriously. I'm not saying "true until contradicted" doesn't still apply, but even I find Beerus hard to believe.
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KidBuu55	Jun 14 2016, 06:46 AM Post #45
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Saying 'Beerus lies' isn't an acceptable answer in this scenario. He's questioning Goku's power and abilities - powers that Goku himself knows best. When stating that he doesn't look like he can defeat Freiza as he is, Goku powers up to SSJ to prove Beerus wrong. Goku is clearly below Final Form Frieza, and Goten/Trunks are even further behind him.



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