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Terrorist attack in Florida
Topic Started: Jun 12 2016, 06:39 PM (4,863 Views)
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Jar-Jar Binks
Jun 13 2016, 01:24 AM
lazerbem
Jun 13 2016, 01:05 AM
Those are awful examples. Giraffes and walrus only rarely kill each other in turf wars and those are entirely unrelated to humans in any case because we can reason. Also, firearms weren't the great equalizer, long range weaponry was in the form of the atlatl and the spear.
Maybe those were poor examples. Spear throwing relies on physical strength and agility to use. If you have neither it's not going to be good for you. Firearms are simple in that many are designed so your great great grandmother who is 103 years old should have no problem using them if her life depended on it without breaking a bone or killing herself from exhaustion.

@Darker

Good is subjective. There's plenty of logical reasons for it, but nobody can really say if they're good or bad reasons.

Also related: Barrack Obama thinks we're to blame, not ISIS or the shooter.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/obama-says-we-are-to-blame-not-islamic-terrorism-for-orlando-massacre/
I ask you what these logical reasons are.
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Edgar Allan Bro
Jun 13 2016, 01:32 AM
If you actually see his speech, I wonder how stupid you'd have to be to actually think he says or implies that.

On a related note, another Christian shooter was stopped in the act against a gay pride parade in Cali. I guess today was a target date for both of these punks.
I didn't read the speech. I assumed he was playing the pussy again instead of fighting back. :errm:
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Edgar Allan Bro
Jun 13 2016, 01:32 AM
If you actually see his speech, I wonder how stupid you'd have to be to actually think he says or implies that.

On a related note, another Christian shooter was stopped in the act against a gay pride parade in Cali. I guess today was a target date for both of these punks.
It's funny, that guy who professes himself a Christian surely didn't know that if you're going to kill somebody for sinning, you need to be blameless yourself.
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Darkness Flame
Jun 13 2016, 01:41 AM
Edgar Allan Bro
Jun 13 2016, 01:32 AM
If you actually see his speech, I wonder how stupid you'd have to be to actually think he says or implies that.

On a related note, another Christian shooter was stopped in the act against a gay pride parade in Cali. I guess today was a target date for both of these punks.
It's funny, that guy who professes himself a Christian surely didn't know that if you're going to kill somebody for sinning, you need to be blameless yourself.
Either that or he didn't care about going to Hell or he thought that he could redeem himself by killing "sinners". Mental gymnastics can take you a long way.

@Jar Jar

Humans typically didn't live longer than 40 when in the wild, therefore, that's not an issue. Fire arms had nothing to do with making humans not be prey.
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Either way it's sad, some people are just so lost.
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Jar-Jar Binks
Jun 13 2016, 12:44 AM
I think you guys watch too many movies and try to apply fiction to real life. Everyone with even a shred of common sense knows that if you're trying to hit a target, get as clear a shot as you can first before taking it whether it's with guns, a basketball, or a snowball . It doesn't take years of training to understand that. Using ammunition designed specifically for self defense, you're not going to get much overpenetration if any at all. Follow that with a monthly trip to the range to improve your personal accuracy and the risk of hitting someone else should be mitigated, but like anything else in life, it could still happen. You're just making it statistically improbable.
You're ignoring a lot of factors there though.

Fear, adrenaline, general confusion and all the people moving around.
You would have to be trained to be able to see through that and clearly, effectively hit the gunman.

Unless someone goes there mentally prepared for a shootout they're going to get rattled more often than not.

Fiction is people turning in to hardcore badasses the moment they pull out a gun.
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It does indeed take months of training and experience to use a firearm effectively in a dark nightclub with people panicking everywhere and loud music playing. The police and soldiers still end up with collateral damage sometimes as well despite years of training. It's cramped, you have people bumping you, strobe lighting ect. You'd be lucky if you can even remove your weapon from its holster let alone get a clear shot at the target.

Oh yeah and without experience the adrenaline is going to make your hand shake like a mother f***er. So yeah lets just give everyone a gun. I'm sure it would turn out just fine.

And don't give me that crap about us being like the rest of the animal kingdom. How many animals have you met with a moral code and critical thinking skills? Yes we are obviously animals biologically but socially we are many levels above the rest of them.
Edited by Pelador, Jun 13 2016, 09:30 PM.


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What will you do when you get old?

I think you all misread or misunderstood my comment. Minimal training is required (like I said, shooting at least once a month at the range), but not military or police training. You have to mentally be prepared to take someones life if you need to defend yourself or others and no amount of training can be substituted for that, but firearms are designed to work even if your palms are sweaty and you have vomit on your sweater already, mom's spaghetti. If you're carrying a gun and not prepared for that possibility, you need to wise up quick.

Collateral damage is always a possibility in any scenario regardless even if you're Agent 47 or Forrest Gump, and many police officers in the U.S have less firearm training than actual civilians who shoot for sport. SWAT teams and Federal agents are the exception. Many LEO agencies only require quarterly qualifiers of 50rds or less and the standards aren't set very high for beat cops/patrol cops. I know my local LEO, the LEO in the counties surrounding, and my state LEO do not have much firearm training at all.
Edited by Helvius Pertinax Augustus, Jun 14 2016, 12:53 AM.
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Quote:
 
It has now been confirmed, by multiple sources, that Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Orlando massacre, was himself gay. He frequently visited the same club that he committed the massacre in, and he attempted to initiate dates on a famous gay-dating app.
Additionally, he was born and raised in America.
His wife, father and community have all claimed that he was not religious in the slightest.
Multiple eyewitness reports indicate that he would get drunk at the very club he committed the massacre in, and would have to be kicked out because of his unruly behavior.
Colleagues and acquaintances have mentioned that he was a loner, a social introvert, and prone to make violent statements and threats against other people.
His wife left him because he beat her and was physically abusive.
Yet, the media continues to ask questions about 'radical Islam' and about Islam's stance on homosexuality. What blatant hypocrisy!
He wasn't a 'radical Muslim'.
He was a mentally deranged psychopathic American closet homosexual who was battling with his sexual identity.
Instead of concentrating on his mental issues, and on the easy gun laws that our country is notorious for, politicians and media pundits wish to cast all of that aside, and choose the easier target of questioning his faith, and of Islam's stance on sexual issues.
The guy was mental, plain and simple. Islam's stance on homosexuality is IRRELEVANT to this massacre, period.


I thought this was important to bring up.
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Emmeth
Jun 14 2016, 09:44 AM
Quote:
 
It has now been confirmed, by multiple sources, that Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Orlando massacre, was himself gay. He frequently visited the same club that he committed the massacre in, and he attempted to initiate dates on a famous gay-dating app.
Additionally, he was born and raised in America.
His wife, father and community have all claimed that he was not religious in the slightest.
Multiple eyewitness reports indicate that he would get drunk at the very club he committed the massacre in, and would have to be kicked out because of his unruly behavior.
Colleagues and acquaintances have mentioned that he was a loner, a social introvert, and prone to make violent statements and threats against other people.
His wife left him because he beat her and was physically abusive.
Yet, the media continues to ask questions about 'radical Islam' and about Islam's stance on homosexuality. What blatant hypocrisy!
He wasn't a 'radical Muslim'.
He was a mentally deranged psychopathic American closet homosexual who was battling with his sexual identity.
Instead of concentrating on his mental issues, and on the easy gun laws that our country is notorious for, politicians and media pundits wish to cast all of that aside, and choose the easier target of questioning his faith, and of Islam's stance on sexual issues.
The guy was mental, plain and simple. Islam's stance on homosexuality is IRRELEVANT to this massacre, period.


I thought this was important to bring up.
His parents could have been just lying about him not being religious, so that the nightclub incident doesn't bring even more shame on their religion of peace.
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Know'm Sayin'
Jun 14 2016, 09:47 AM
Emmeth
Jun 14 2016, 09:44 AM
Quote:
 
It has now been confirmed, by multiple sources, that Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Orlando massacre, was himself gay. He frequently visited the same club that he committed the massacre in, and he attempted to initiate dates on a famous gay-dating app.
Additionally, he was born and raised in America.
His wife, father and community have all claimed that he was not religious in the slightest.
Multiple eyewitness reports indicate that he would get drunk at the very club he committed the massacre in, and would have to be kicked out because of his unruly behavior.
Colleagues and acquaintances have mentioned that he was a loner, a social introvert, and prone to make violent statements and threats against other people.
His wife left him because he beat her and was physically abusive.
Yet, the media continues to ask questions about 'radical Islam' and about Islam's stance on homosexuality. What blatant hypocrisy!
He wasn't a 'radical Muslim'.
He was a mentally deranged psychopathic American closet homosexual who was battling with his sexual identity.
Instead of concentrating on his mental issues, and on the easy gun laws that our country is notorious for, politicians and media pundits wish to cast all of that aside, and choose the easier target of questioning his faith, and of Islam's stance on sexual issues.
The guy was mental, plain and simple. Islam's stance on homosexuality is IRRELEVANT to this massacre, period.


I thought this was important to bring up.
His parents could have been just lying about him not being religious, so that the nightclub incident doesn't bring even more shame on their religion of peace.
The parents could've believed he was religious without lying. He could've been lying to them.
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Know'm Sayin'
Jun 14 2016, 09:47 AM
Quote:
 
His parents could have been just lying about him not being religious, so that the nightclub incident doesn't bring even more shame on their religion of peace.


Don't speculate or add things that aren't there. Take the evidence you have and go with that until new evidence appears to contradict it.
Edited by Pelador, Jun 14 2016, 12:10 PM.


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I haven't read the comments in this thread because it's five pages long already, but I was so incredibly sad about this and have been since it happened. Yesterday was so depressing for me, mostly because of all the hatred I've been seeing on social media aimed at both the LGBT community and Islam. I've seen people rallying together for the most bigoted and hateful reasons, like amending religious freedom from the constitution so that Muslims can be "deported," talking about outlawing Islam, or saying that the shooters were justified for ridding the world of so many "perverts and child molesters." Seeing all of that made me sick to my stomach.

The shooting in Orlando shouldn't be about Islam OR gun control. It should be about the innocent people who died because of their sexual orientation. Whether the shooter was a Muslim or a Christian, this is a hate crime, and the ignorant people out there who are using this as a catalyst to bash Islam are only succeeding in spreading more hate. Yes, we can use this shooting as an opportunity to discuss gun control and radicalism (if this was in fact done because of religious hate, which at this point is unknown), but this was an act of hatred through and through. Whether that was hatred at the gay community or self-hatred we still don't know, but the fact that this was purposely done against gay people is clear.

If you're going to post things like this and think that you can stay friends with me, you're wrong. I won't stand for the negativity, hatred, and ignorance. If you think like this, you clearly don't understand Islam OR Christianity, and you obviously don't have any Muslim friends. You also don't seem to understand how our own constitution works. Our country was founded on religious freedom, and if you don't like that or think that it should change, maybe you should move to a country that doesn't have those basic freedoms and see how you like it there.

On a positive note, this event has made me realize how much support there is for the LGBT community and our Muslim American citizens. Even some of my Republican friends have been speaking out about the shooting. Whether or not their intentions are really to help spread awareness about the LGBT community is doubtful, but at least they act like they care. I'm just trying to see the positive in all of this. It's difficult, but I'm trying.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Have you seen what Trump said?

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Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!
— Donald J. Trump
He uses this to proclaim how right he is, what a f***ing pig. It's absolutely appalling that he was ever even considered as a presidential candidate.


At least there's been some positivity though, Muslim people donating blood, LGBT people coming out in order to support the community.

It really is sad how people value their right to own lethal weapons more than they do the lives of their own people at the hands of those weapons. Barely any mention of a reform on mental health care either that seems to be of the lowest priority. Even though almost all these shootings are done by home grown Americans.


I wonder what happens next? Obama seems pretty serious about getting things changed but he's not President for much longer, hopefully whoever is next actually gives a s*** about the people, not just where they come from, their skin colour or who they lay next to at night.
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Emmeth
Jun 14 2016, 09:44 AM
Quote:
 
It has now been confirmed, by multiple sources, that Omar Mateen, the shooter in the Orlando massacre, was himself gay. He frequently visited the same club that he committed the massacre in, and he attempted to initiate dates on a famous gay-dating app.
Additionally, he was born and raised in America.
His wife, father and community have all claimed that he was not religious in the slightest.
Multiple eyewitness reports indicate that he would get drunk at the very club he committed the massacre in, and would have to be kicked out because of his unruly behavior.
Colleagues and acquaintances have mentioned that he was a loner, a social introvert, and prone to make violent statements and threats against other people.
His wife left him because he beat her and was physically abusive.
Yet, the media continues to ask questions about 'radical Islam' and about Islam's stance on homosexuality. What blatant hypocrisy!
He wasn't a 'radical Muslim'.
He was a mentally deranged psychopathic American closet homosexual who was battling with his sexual identity.
Instead of concentrating on his mental issues, and on the easy gun laws that our country is notorious for, politicians and media pundits wish to cast all of that aside, and choose the easier target of questioning his faith, and of Islam's stance on sexual issues.
The guy was mental, plain and simple. Islam's stance on homosexuality is IRRELEVANT to this massacre, period.


I thought this was important to bring up.
Am I missing something or does that mean he wasn't homophobic, and the attack was more of a "school shooting" kind of deal, where the attacker targets a place that they know to get revenge on the people there?
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