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Terrorist attack in Florida
Topic Started: Jun 12 2016, 06:39 PM (4,864 Views)
Buuberries
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No

f***s sake my eyes are really itchy

edit: oops wrong thread i had two tabs open omg got confused
Edited by Buuberries, Jun 12 2016, 11:41 PM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Gun's definitely aren't the problem but they are part of the problem so they are very important here I'd say.

Less guns and more mental healthcare is the solution not just one of those. Neither of them are going to happen right away so the best option would be to do both bit by bit since that ought to be more achievable than a complete reform of either.

No matter how good mental health care becomes some people will slip through the system, less chance of them also procuring a gun is definitely positive.
Likewise no matter how good background checks are some people with dangerous mental illnesses will end up getting guns.

Reduction is all that can be done.



How much hope is there for more mental health care anyway? Health care over there is kind of abysmal all around so I'm not sure how such a glaring issue would really be dealt with.
If people have to pay to get help with mental problems they're obviously not really going to opt for that so it'd need to be a free service and a good one for it to go anywhere.


Guns are more of a societal issue, mental healthcare is economical, so I feel it's probably more realistic that people learn to stand together and say the gun situation needs to calm down.

People for the most part have learned to accept the blacks, women, the gays and are gradually accepting the LGBT community as a whole so surely whittling down gun culture is a realistic possibility?
Instead of fighting over who's a liberal and who's not people should recognize the tangible problems that exist.
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Daemon_Rising
Jun 12 2016, 10:54 PM
I want to point out that Canada is as multicultural as the US is, Jar Jar. There are less of us, yes. But we are just as multicultural. The gamut of ethnic neighbourhoods in Toronto is as diverse as New York City's, albeit much smaller.

And fewer guns do not create larger bodycounts. You assume that if the victims in Florida had been carryijg a gun that they could have stopped the attack sooner but you fail to mention that the kind of stresses that occur in a real-life shooting do not happen at the range. Only a small number of gun owners actually have the training needed to calm down and take action. And fewer still have the willingness to actually do so.

If you were correct, then America by now would have no mass shootings, only attempted mass shootings.
Canada is 80.9% White and Aboriginal (4.3%) with 19.1% being non-whites/aboriginal, of that 13% are Asian, 2.9% black, 1.2% Arab, 1.2% Latin American and 0.7% mixed/unknown.

The U.S.A (Census data doesn't list Arab race/ethnicity) has 77.4% white, 17.5% of that percentage being Hispanic or Latino, 13.2% being lack/African American, 5.4% being Asian, 1.4% being Aboriginal to Hawaii, Alaska, and the lower 48, and 2.5% mixed/unknown.


Because the census data for the two countries is broken up differently and current year being unavailable these numbers are based off of past census data, but within the past 5 years with the most recent numbers being from 2014/2015. Canada does not say whether the white/Caucasian data includes those of Hispanic origin and separates different Asian countries in to different races.

Anyway, in America 62.1% of people are white, the rest are not white. In Canada, 76.6% are while and the rest are non-white. Since you used New York City, census data is broken up at 33.3% white, 28.6% Hispanic or Latino, 25.5% black/African American, 12.6% Asian, and 4% being mixed. Toronto is 50.2% white, 33.9% Asian 8.5% black, 2.8% latin American, 1.1% Arab, and 0.7% Aboriginal.

The two cities are nothing alike as far as diversity goes.

Anyway on to your points about guns, what are you basing your observations on? To stop a shooter all it takes is drawing your gun and shooting the shooter. Any training is to increase your chance of survival and not getting shot yourself.

If you were correct, then France wouldn't have had their mass shootings, there would be no guns to use for the terrorists to shoot people with.

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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Buuberries
Jun 12 2016, 11:41 PM
f***s sake my eyes are really itchy

edit: oops wrong thread i had two tabs open omg got confused
Still relevant.
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Dankness Lava
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Dankness Forever

Daemon, unfortunately I'm not living there. Maybe I can start a fundme for it.
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Tinny
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Didn't the shooter kill himself afterwords? Guns aren't an effective deterrent against the suicidal and once you've pulled the trigger, someone's probably dead already regardless of if you get shot afterwords or not.
Just want to point that out. I'd imagine most people are focusing on the event, the first hint they got that something was happening was probably the gunshot, or maybe someone calling out that someone's got a gun before the gunshot.
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lazerbem
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Tinny
Jun 13 2016, 12:06 AM
Didn't the shooter kill himself afterwords? Guns aren't an effective deterrent against the suicidal and once you've pulled the trigger, someone's probably dead already regardless of if you get shot afterwords or not.
Just want to point that out. I'd imagine most people are focusing on the event, the first hint they got that something was happening was probably the gunshot, or maybe someone calling out that someone's got a gun before the gunshot.
No, the police barged in with an armored truck and stun grenades and shot him

That being said, yes, whipping out a gun at a night club would be a terrible idea. You'd be just as likely to kill someone as the shooter
Edited by lazerbem, Jun 13 2016, 12:20 AM.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

I think you guys watch too many movies and try to apply fiction to real life. Everyone with even a shred of common sense knows that if you're trying to hit a target, get as clear a shot as you can first before taking it whether it's with guns, a basketball, or a snowball . It doesn't take years of training to understand that. Using ammunition designed specifically for self defense, you're not going to get much overpenetration if any at all. Follow that with a monthly trip to the range to improve your personal accuracy and the risk of hitting someone else should be mitigated, but like anything else in life, it could still happen. You're just making it statistically improbable.

Anyway per Florida state law, it's illegal to carry or be in possession of a firearm in any place that serves alcohol regardless of whether you're consuming it or not. So the shooter was a criminal, bringing guns in to a gun free zone. It'd be a crime for an otherwise law abiding citizen to bring a gun in as well and I'm certain even though they would be a hero for stopping it, they would also be a criminal for breaking the law and charged as well.
Edited by Helvius Pertinax Augustus, Jun 13 2016, 12:45 AM.
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Dankness Lava
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It's too bad we "need" guns in the first place. Chaos and violence against your own kind is just so sad, as well as atrocious.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

It happens in the natural world. Giraffes will kill each other for territory, walrus will kill each other for territory. For the longest time, humans were the prey and other animals preyed upon us. Firearms are just the great equalizer for humanity.
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lazerbem
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Those are awful examples. Giraffes and walrus only rarely kill each other in turf wars and those are entirely unrelated to humans in any case because we can reason. Also, firearms weren't the great equalizer, long range weaponry was in the form of the atlatl and the spear.
Edited by lazerbem, Jun 13 2016, 01:05 AM.
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Jar-Jar Binks
Jun 13 2016, 01:00 AM
It happens in the natural world. Giraffes will kill each other for territory, walrus will kill each other for territory. For the longest time, humans were the prey and other animals preyed upon us. Firearms are just the great equalizer for humanity.
We're different than the animals. We are capable of knowing better than violence and chaos. There is no GOOD reason for killing people the way our race does.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

lazerbem
Jun 13 2016, 01:05 AM
Those are awful examples. Giraffes and walrus only rarely kill each other in turf wars and those are entirely unrelated to humans in any case because we can reason. Also, firearms weren't the great equalizer, long range weaponry was in the form of the atlatl and the spear.
Maybe those were poor examples. Spear throwing relies on physical strength and agility to use. If you have neither it's not going to be good for you. Firearms are simple in that many are designed so your great great grandmother who is 103 years old should have no problem using them if her life depended on it without breaking a bone or killing herself from exhaustion.

@Darker

Good is subjective. There's plenty of logical reasons for it, but nobody can really say if they're good or bad reasons.

Also related: Barrack Obama thinks we're to blame, not ISIS or the shooter.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/obama-says-we-are-to-blame-not-islamic-terrorism-for-orlando-massacre/
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+ Pyrus
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Thanks, Obama. Let me just fault our country instead of using my testosterone to stand up for myself.
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Mihawk
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If you actually see his speech, I wonder how stupid you'd have to be to actually think he says or implies that.

On a related note, another Christian shooter was stopped in the act against a gay pride parade in Cali. I guess today was a target date for both of these punks.

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