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Terrorist attack in Florida
Topic Started: Jun 12 2016, 06:39 PM (4,865 Views)
lazerbem
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It honestly wouldn't surprise me if some of the more gung ho pro-gun people tried to pull American Civil War 2.0 if heavy gun restrictions were imposed. Only in that case, the right wouldn't be particularly clear as opposed to the first American Civil War where the anti-slavery side is pretty obviously in the clear.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

Emmeth
Jun 12 2016, 09:59 PM
I have to point something out to you:

Quote:
 
Canada has had 8 mass shootings in 20 years. The US has had 7 since Monday.


To purchase a handgun or other restricted firearm, a person must have a possession and acquisition licence (PAL) for restricted firearms. Canada's federal laws severely restrict the ability of civilians to transport restricted or prohibited (grandfathered) firearms in public.

The United States of America NEEDS to abolish their gun law, more guns will not solve anything. You are hiding behind "private rights" etc, but the matter of the fact is: There's more mass shootings in the USA than ANYWHERE else in the world where's there is no war.

The incident in Florida might be different from other mass shootings in that this time around it is connected to ISIS, but that doesn't change the fact that the Gun Control Policy is massively the reason your country has so many shootings. The answer is not MORE guns, but FEWER guns.
I'll just say fewer guns leave larger bodycounts. None of the patrons of the bar were legally allowed to carry a gun there per Florida law, so they didn't. 50 people died and another 53 or so were injured. In Paris, nobody had guns and 130 people died and 368 injured. In Norway on Utøya island, nobody had guns and Breivik killed 69 people and injured many more. In Syria back in January, 300 unarmed people were publicly executed by ISIS because they were not allowed to own firearms. Many more massacres have happened outside of the U.S than in it, and then we can bring genocides like The Holocaust or the Cambodian genocide under the Khmer Rogue where people were stripped of their arms and left defenseless. Keep in mind this shooting was the worst in U.S history. There have been many shootings that trump it in places with laws that make it nigh impossible to get a gun.

One can argue Canada has less shootings with lower body not because of oppressive gun laws they have only 35 million people over a vast area of 3,855,000 square miles whereas the U.S has 318 million people in an area of 3,806,000 square miles. Toronto, Canadas largest city population wise only has 2.6 million people living in it. That's about the same as Americas 4th largest city. Canada is also fairly homogeneous being mostly Canadian/French Canadian with pockets of Asian ethnicity. The U.S has people from all cultures and sometimes those cultures clash, resulting in things like the club shooting or the South Carolina church shooting done by Dylan Roof.

I'd also like to point out the worst massacre in Canadian history had more people die than the worst civilian massacre in U.S history, granted it was almost 350 years ago, it is still a recorded massacre of civilians.

I'm not really trying to make a point for civilian firearm ownership because changing someones mind over words on the internet is an uphill struggle no matter how logical or illogical your position is. Like I said though, I don't care much about this whole thing beyond starting conversation. I'm already stocked up on what I need.
Edited by Helvius Pertinax Augustus, Jun 12 2016, 10:37 PM.
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Mihawk
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Steve
Jun 12 2016, 10:19 PM
Edgar Allan Bro
Jun 12 2016, 10:11 PM
I agree with you @Emmeth, but the everyone have guns policy does seem to work in Texas. These asshats tried this in Texas and got shot right away and no one was seriously hurt.
How often does that really happen though because there's a mass shooting almost every day and it's very rare that a civilian intervenes and saves the day. Everyone having a gun would be a mess more often than not.

It would only really serve as a deterrent but not to the crazy who don't care about dying or think they're invincible, which most of them seem to be.


Less guns all around would be great for the US, especially if that included cops since it's fair to say a lot of them are way too trigger happy.
It'd be hard to pull off in Texas.

BUT clubs and bars wouldn't be safe still because bringing guns into that even for bouncers is a terrible idea. So ultimately if I had to choose one, even if logistically impossible, I'd say get rid of guns.

I think we should whittle down the gun culture over time. It's not something that can be fixed overnight, but if we work at it we can get somewhere.

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lazerbem
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The Holocaust is an awful comparison to use here. Many people did fight back, the Poles among them. It didn't work out particularly great for them when they were being steam rolled by the Wehrmacht however. Government sponsored wars tend to leave high body counts, guns laws or none. This probably applies to the Cambodian genocide too, but I don't know enough in that respect

@Jar Jar
Edited by lazerbem, Jun 12 2016, 10:39 PM.
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We should stop making this about guns since it goes much deeper than that.


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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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Before anyone says anything I realize I said massacres and not shootings, I ws reading one thing and saying the other. I know I'm incorrect on that.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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lazerbem
Jun 12 2016, 10:39 PM
The Holocaust is an awful comparison to use here. Many people did fight back, the Poles among them. It didn't work out particularly great for them when they were being steam rolled by the Wehrmacht however. Government sponsored wars tend to leave high body counts, guns laws or none. This probably applies to the Cambodian genocide too, but I don't know enough in that respect

@Jar Jar
It's not, millions of people were stripped of their firearms and summarily executed. Obviously holdouts did fight back, but the U.S and Britain even had to drop in firearms to France to help the Resistance, otherwise they would have been massacred too.
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lazerbem
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And the ones that did fight back, though they fought back well as they could, were getting brutalized by the actual army with tanks, airpower, and what not. Keep in mind that the Germans were more focused on the fronts than internal dissent. While the rebellions achieved impressive success given their limited resources, they were still not exactly going to be stopping the Wehrmacht in that fashion without help from the Allies.
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Daemon Keido
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I want to point out that Canada is as multicultural as the US is, Jar Jar. There are less of us, yes. But we are just as multicultural. The gamut of ethnic neighbourhoods in Toronto is as diverse as New York City's, albeit much smaller.

And fewer guns do not create larger bodycounts. You assume that if the victims in Florida had been carryijg a gun that they could have stopped the attack sooner but you fail to mention that the kind of stresses that occur in a real-life shooting do not happen at the range. Only a small number of gun owners actually have the training needed to calm down and take action. And fewer still have the willingness to actually do so.

If you were correct, then America by now would have no mass shootings, only attempted mass shootings.
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I want to say that the incidents that has happened over the last few years have been terrorism done by radical islamic terrorist groups. In one case (Utøya) the terrorist had political indifferences and wanted to change the world in his view (much like how ISIS and other groups work).

The majority of the shootings in USA has happened by mentally unstable people with access to firearms. There's also a large issue with police brutality. This is almost always isolated to this country due to the lack of gun control and because of the gun policy.
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Dankness Lava
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I take it nobody knows?
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My department beefed up security here for the Pridefest thing going on because of this douche nugget's actions. Not that I'm complaining, just noting it's had an effect all the way up north.
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Darkness Flame
Jun 12 2016, 10:59 PM
I take it nobody knows?
I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up sometime very soon.
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Darkness Flame
Jun 12 2016, 10:25 PM
Anyone know if there are any honest charity cases for this? I would be glad to pitch in a hundred dollars or so.
I would check on Facebook or maybe skim Twitter. There's got to be something. There are always dozens of charities popping up for these things.
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Daemon Keido
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If you live in the area around Florida it happened you could go to donate some blood. They will be needing some donors for the victims.
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