Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 10:13 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 08:52 AM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 07:44 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 05:01 AM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 01:20 AM

I really hope that it's just Goku. That would mean that there's the potential for development there. If it's not Goku (or Goku being possessed/controlled), then that could happen to anyone, and Goku doesn't have to look at himself in the mirror at all.

It'd be interesting to see a Goku that went far beyond what canon Goku has done. We saw in BoG that he wasn't above gaining power by having his friends help him, and that's a small step towards an evil act like stealing power from someone or forcing them to transfer it to him.

That's like saying borrowing money is a step to becoming a mugger.
The slope aint that slippery

It's still proof that he's willing to go against his principles to attain more power.

And yeah, it's not like Goku was able to tell exactly where Beerus' punch was gonna go. No way he could've dodged it and grappled him while Beerus was still punching. How can Goku be fast enough to judge the trajectory of Beerus' punch and be able to counter with a punch that's exactly the same, but not fast enough to just dodge that punch and go in for a grapple?

Abandoning your principles=/= turning into a murderer
Punching=/= grappling
Sometimes you can find oppurtunities to grapple sometimes not. As someone who has sparred with grapplers its much easier to peic someone up and counter strikes than grapple
It seems that ever since super came out the most active members on here have gone on a multi month long goku bash fest and pushing the notion that goku is evil smh

Okay, grappling's one option. Why didn't he just dodge Beerus' punch and throw his own punch? He was desperate to try out his technique and threw away efficiency for it.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:41 AM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 10:13 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 08:52 AM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 07:44 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 05:01 AM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 01:20 AM

I really hope that it's just Goku. That would mean that there's the potential for development there. If it's not Goku (or Goku being possessed/controlled), then that could happen to anyone, and Goku doesn't have to look at himself in the mirror at all.

It'd be interesting to see a Goku that went far beyond what canon Goku has done. We saw in BoG that he wasn't above gaining power by having his friends help him, and that's a small step towards an evil act like stealing power from someone or forcing them to transfer it to him.

That's like saying borrowing money is a step to becoming a mugger.
The slope aint that slippery

It's still proof that he's willing to go against his principles to attain more power.

And yeah, it's not like Goku was able to tell exactly where Beerus' punch was gonna go. No way he could've dodged it and grappled him while Beerus was still punching. How can Goku be fast enough to judge the trajectory of Beerus' punch and be able to counter with a punch that's exactly the same, but not fast enough to just dodge that punch and go in for a grapple?

Abandoning your principles=/= turning into a murderer
Punching=/= grappling
Sometimes you can find oppurtunities to grapple sometimes not. As someone who has sparred with grapplers its much easier to peic someone up and counter strikes than grapple
It seems that ever since super came out the most active members on here have gone on a multi month long goku bash fest and pushing the notion that goku is evil smh

Okay, grappling's one option. Why didn't he just dodge Beerus' punch and throw his own punch? He was desperate to try out his technique and threw away efficiency for it.

The technique was to minimize collateral. At some point in that fight he was gonna need to master that skill. He couldn't have kept dodging that, plus constant dodging would've opened opportunities for Beerus and creates a predictable pattern. He was gonna need to learn it, good thing he learnt it when he did.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

lazerbem

Jun 8 2016, 10:24 PM

Incidentally, Boros has a "collateral damage via unnecessary punch" too

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 10:28 PM

Why isn't Goku smart enough to keep dodging those ridiculously obvious punches? If he's able to see where the punch is going, see how much power it has and prepare and launch his own punch to counter it exactly, dodging should be a piece of cake. Beerus would see that continuing to use those punches is pointless and would move on to another tactic. Or do ya think that the Universe would be in danger even if it was just Beerus punching?

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

"Just to test out a technique" you're ignoring the whole point of the technique. It wss to reduce collateral that's it. It provided no other benefit to Goku. It was for everybody else because guess what in a fight you can't dodge all the time. You need to block, you need to strike and blows will collide.
Goku had to learn that technique to be able to fight Beerus without collateral. As shown after the shockwaves when the combat speeds back up Goku had to use that technique to fight Beerus hand to hand without collateral. You cant avoid every single collision its impossible especially against someone faster and stronger and more ruthless than you..you say Goku put himself above humans but the same fight shows him protecting Earth and using a technique that reduces collateral for goodness sake.
Its not headcannon that you need to fight hand to hand
And Its not headcannon to say the only way for them to go hand to hand without collateral was for goku to reduce collateral.

Quote:

 

Was Boros trying to make a technique that reduces collateral!?

Quote:

 

Dodge every single punch!? From someone faster stronger and more experienced?Are you serious? For the rest of the fight keep dodging? Have you ever been in a fight before?

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

"Just to test out a technique" you're ignoring the whole point of the technique. It wss to reduce collateral that's it. It provided no other benefit to Goku. It was for everybody else because guess what in a fight you can't dodge all the time. You need to block, you need to strike and blows will collide.
Goku had to learn that technique to be able to fight Beerus without collateral. As shown after the shockwaves when the combat speeds back up Goku had to use that technique to fight Beerus hand to hand without collateral. You cant avoid every single collision its impossible especially against someone faster and stronger and more ruthless than you..you say Goku put himself above humans but the same fight shows him protecting Earth and using a technique that reduces collateral for goodness sake.
Its not headcannon that you need to fight hand to hand
And Its not headcannon to say the only way for them to go hand to hand without collateral was for goku to reduce collateral.

Yeah, collateral damage from a specific way of fighting that was causing it that was dropped in the next episode for just fighting. Why didn't Goku "just fight" (as the Kai puts it) Beerus like he does next episode? The only reason he did it was to test out a technique, otherwise we would have seen him use that technique afterwords during the rest of the hands to hand combat.
He could easily predict and match those punches in three tries, I think Goku is skilled enough to move out of the way and "just fight" him like they did the very next episode.
Only for a while, but after that it changes from what they were doing in episode 12 to it being "just a fight." It was a technique developed for no reason that ultimately got planets filled with people killed.
No, but you can apparently fight without having to use that technique and without resorting to shockwave causing punches by "just fighting," the Kai outright said that was the reason the shockwaves weren't happening, not that Goku perfected the technique, but because they both stopped what they were doing in episode 12 and started "just fighting."
Clearly not, he puts the Earth in danger twice after that, his care for Earth clearly doesn't go far once a fight starts.
And they did next episode weight that technique, which highlights how Goku didn't need to develop in the first place, he could have "just fought" Beerus and no one would have to die so Goku can test out a technique to stop shockwaves that don't emerge of he simply "just fights" Beerus.
Or they could do like they did in episode 13 and not risk collateral damage during their hand to hand combat.

People died so Goku could test out a technique he'd drop an episode later in favour of having "just a fight." So yeah, he risked everything to literally test out an unneeded technique, he did just so he and Beerus could do what they did in episode 12.
If he has just fought Beerus instead of trying out that technique, he wouldn't have killed people and risked his home and family. That's the problem, the way the fight is portrayed, this was in no way necessary.

@Timothy
It wasn't, but it's not like Goku couldn't get around it easily.

@Timothy
He perfectly matched the punch in literally three tries, are you telling me he couldn't use his martial arts skill to dodge a punch so predictable he could perfectly match it in not even four attempts? You're making Goku sound incompetent.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:51 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

"Just to test out a technique" you're ignoring the whole point of the technique. It wss to reduce collateral that's it. It provided no other benefit to Goku. It was for everybody else because guess what in a fight you can't dodge all the time. You need to block, you need to strike and blows will collide.
Goku had to learn that technique to be able to fight Beerus without collateral. As shown after the shockwaves when the combat speeds back up Goku had to use that technique to fight Beerus hand to hand without collateral. You cant avoid every single collision its impossible especially against someone faster and stronger and more ruthless than you..you say Goku put himself above humans but the same fight shows him protecting Earth and using a technique that reduces collateral for goodness sake.
Its not headcannon that you need to fight hand to hand
And Its not headcannon to say the only way for them to go hand to hand without collateral was for goku to reduce collateral.

Yeah, collateral damage from a specific way of fighting that was causing it that was dropped in the next episode for just fighting. Why didn't Goku "just fight" (as the Kai puts it) Beerus like he does next episode? The only reason he did it was to test out a technique, otherwise we would have seen him use that technique afterwords during the rest of the hands to hand combat.
He could easily predict and match those punches in three tries, I think Goku is skilled enough to move out of the way and "just fight" him like they did the very next episode.
Only for a while, but after that it changes from what they were doing in episode 12 to it being "just a fight." It was a technique developed for no reason that ultimately got planets filled with people killed.
No, but you can apparently fight without having to use that technique and without resorting to shockwave causing punches by "just fighting," the Kai outright said that was the reason the shockwaves weren't happening, not that Goku perfected the technique, but because they both stopped what they were doing in episode 12 and started "just fighting."
Clearly not, he puts the Earth in danger twice after that, his care for Earth clearly doesn't go far once a fight starts.
And they did next episode weight that technique, which highlights how Goku didn't need to develop in the first place, he could have "just fought" Beerus and no one would have to die so Goku can test out a technique to stop shockwaves that don't emerge of he simply "just fights" Beerus.
Or they could do like they did in episode 13 and not risk collateral damage during their hand to hand combat.

People died so Goku could test out a technique he'd drop an episode later in favour of having "just a fight." So yeah, he risked everything to literally test out an unneeded technique, he did just so he and Beerus could do what they did in episode 12.
If he has just fought Beerus instead of trying out that technique, he wouldn't have killed people and risked his home and family. That's the problem, the way the fight is portrayed, this was in no way necessary.

@Timothy
It wasn't, but it's not like Goku couldn't get around it easily.

@Timothy
He perfectly matched the punch in literally three tries, are you telling me he couldn't use his martial arts skill to dodge a punch so predictable he could perfectly match it in not even four attempts? You're making Goku sound incompetent.

We see after the shockwaves when they're fighting faster goku had to keep cancelling the collateral. It wasnt from them just charging at each other. Its shown he needed to cancel blows in high paced combat
Not just when they were charging.
Right when they claim to be ar 100% they begin to fight fast paced and Goku had to cancel the blows as we kept seeing the cancellation line come across the screen.
Like i said he needed that technique to fight hand to hand at that level with Beerus without collateral. Unless you wanna ignore that whole fight sequence and only reference them charging at each other
And you cant get too far in a fight solely on evasion and i already Made it clear he needed that technique in fast paced combat Not just them charging at each other

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:13 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:51 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

"Just to test out a technique" you're ignoring the whole point of the technique. It wss to reduce collateral that's it. It provided no other benefit to Goku. It was for everybody else because guess what in a fight you can't dodge all the time. You need to block, you need to strike and blows will collide.
Goku had to learn that technique to be able to fight Beerus without collateral. As shown after the shockwaves when the combat speeds back up Goku had to use that technique to fight Beerus hand to hand without collateral. You cant avoid every single collision its impossible especially against someone faster and stronger and more ruthless than you..you say Goku put himself above humans but the same fight shows him protecting Earth and using a technique that reduces collateral for goodness sake.
Its not headcannon that you need to fight hand to hand
And Its not headcannon to say the only way for them to go hand to hand without collateral was for goku to reduce collateral.

Yeah, collateral damage from a specific way of fighting that was causing it that was dropped in the next episode for just fighting. Why didn't Goku "just fight" (as the Kai puts it) Beerus like he does next episode? The only reason he did it was to test out a technique, otherwise we would have seen him use that technique afterwords during the rest of the hands to hand combat.
He could easily predict and match those punches in three tries, I think Goku is skilled enough to move out of the way and "just fight" him like they did the very next episode.
Only for a while, but after that it changes from what they were doing in episode 12 to it being "just a fight." It was a technique developed for no reason that ultimately got planets filled with people killed.
No, but you can apparently fight without having to use that technique and without resorting to shockwave causing punches by "just fighting," the Kai outright said that was the reason the shockwaves weren't happening, not that Goku perfected the technique, but because they both stopped what they were doing in episode 12 and started "just fighting."
Clearly not, he puts the Earth in danger twice after that, his care for Earth clearly doesn't go far once a fight starts.
And they did next episode weight that technique, which highlights how Goku didn't need to develop in the first place, he could have "just fought" Beerus and no one would have to die so Goku can test out a technique to stop shockwaves that don't emerge of he simply "just fights" Beerus.
Or they could do like they did in episode 13 and not risk collateral damage during their hand to hand combat.

People died so Goku could test out a technique he'd drop an episode later in favour of having "just a fight." So yeah, he risked everything to literally test out an unneeded technique, he did just so he and Beerus could do what they did in episode 12.
If he has just fought Beerus instead of trying out that technique, he wouldn't have killed people and risked his home and family. That's the problem, the way the fight is portrayed, this was in no way necessary.

@Timothy
It wasn't, but it's not like Goku couldn't get around it easily.

@Timothy
He perfectly matched the punch in literally three tries, are you telling me he couldn't use his martial arts skill to dodge a punch so predictable he could perfectly match it in not even four attempts? You're making Goku sound incompetent.

We see after the shockwaves when they're fighting faster goku had to keep cancelling the collateral. It wasnt from them just charging at each other. Its shown he needed to cancel blows in high paced combat
Not just when they were charging.
Right when they claim to be ar 100% they begin to fight fast paced and Goku had to cancel the blows as we kept seeing the cancellation line come across the screen.
Like i said he needed that technique to fight hand to hand at that level with Beerus without collateral. Unless you wanna ignore that whole fight sequence and only reference them charging at each other
And you cant get too far in a fight solely on evasion and i already Made it clear he needed that technique in fast paced combat Not just them charging at each other

Except in episode 13 that don't show that effect at all, and more to the point, the lack of universal destruction is not said to have been due to Goku, but explicitly due to it becoming "just a fight." Why didn't Goku just fight Beerus then as he did later? If the Kai had told him that Goku was preventing it I might get what you meant, but he clearly says it's because the both of them stopped whatever dissent method they were doing before that threatened the shockwaves. It may not have been the bull rushing, but there was a clear difference between them fighting during and after episode 12. To say otherwise is to outright ignore the events of episode 13 and onwards.
Except you're wrong, because they do it in episode 13 and the reason the shockwaves don't happen at all is squarely said to be because "it's just a fight," unless we're just ignoring the Kais now, it's clear they could have just fought a la episode 13 instead of fighting in such a way that causes the universal shockwaves

The technique was used, and then shortly dropped once episode 13 rolled along.
Heck another fansub describes it as a brawl, and that definitely implies less control than before, like for example not perfectly matching your opponent's attacks in both direction and power.