Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:19 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:13 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:51 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:23 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 10:16 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 10:09 PM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 11:20 AM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 07:13 AM

Tinny

Jun 8 2016, 05:05 AM

He also nearly killed them all after his power up had happened multiple times during that fight, especially that one time he decided he'd rather test out a technique that required killing countless people if he failed (twice in this case) then even attempt other ways of fighting (such as a grapple).
It doesn't matter if that slope is slippery or covered in glue, he's leapt down it.

If he were to attempt a grapple whos to say Beerus wouldn't have knocked his head off. He already grappled Beerus once in that fight its unlikely he wouldve been able to do it again. The whole purpose of that technique was to minimize collateral ffs. I swear if Toryama read some of this stuff on this website he'd probably die from laughter. I doubt any of us can tell a martial artists alien who can move at mftl speeds how to fight or what could've been the Better alternative.

Regardless Goku had absolutely no malicous intent. That's whats being implied by Yall tbh. He's just a scatterbrain

And if that was what happened and Goku got hit for his troubles and couldn't find a way around that without resorting to the technique it would have been different. Why does previous success prevent him from doing that again? By that logic he shouldn't have tried punching either since he's already done it and it'd be unlikely for it to work again. It failed horrifically, Goku now has a larger body count than any of the villains with the possible (POSSIBLE) exceptions of Beerus and Buu, and it's shown that he didn't need to try that in the first place, he could have just fought. And? Evidently we can since Goku didn't even so much as consider it, there wasn't even an inner thought dismissing it or anything. Fact is he immediately went to the technique without so much as even considering and dismissing other options. Your idea that he did this because he knew anything else wouldn't work is headcanon not shown or implied at any point in the show, and is outright contradicted. He could also had made it 'just a fight,' you know, like he did the very next episode. There was ultimately no reason to do what he did, the only thing he did was kill countless people on other planets and put his own friends and family in danger for no good reason.

No, I'm saying he didn't care and it shows, and this new one should outright have that malice and force Goku to look at himself. Also he knew exactly what he was doing, otherwise he wouldn't have developed that technique in the first place.

Don't worry though Timothy, I'm sure they'll have a cop out and make it so Goku stays as essentially the second coming that can do no wrong. No one's really expecting anything so drastic as character development for Goku, or for them to address the fact that he's not at all far from someone like Boros.

So Goku conquers planets etc and has no love for the human race despite him fighting to save it?? Smfh. He didn't kill anyone on any other planets. Beerus did
Smh this is insane
I live in a world where an anime character is more criticized than politics leaders. Yup its time for a bleach cocktail

He did destroy them however and he nearly killed his own people just to test out a technique which, as we've shown, was completely unnecessary. He definitely shows the same kind of disregard for collateral damage if it's in service to a good fight that Boros does.
What is?
You clearly haven't looked at politics if you believe that. Also notably you haven't actually addressed... Anything I said aside from my comparison to Boros, which wasn't even the the main part of my rebuttal to you.

"Just to test out a technique" you're ignoring the whole point of the technique. It wss to reduce collateral that's it. It provided no other benefit to Goku. It was for everybody else because guess what in a fight you can't dodge all the time. You need to block, you need to strike and blows will collide.
Goku had to learn that technique to be able to fight Beerus without collateral. As shown after the shockwaves when the combat speeds back up Goku had to use that technique to fight Beerus hand to hand without collateral. You cant avoid every single collision its impossible especially against someone faster and stronger and more ruthless than you..you say Goku put himself above humans but the same fight shows him protecting Earth and using a technique that reduces collateral for goodness sake.
Its not headcannon that you need to fight hand to hand
And Its not headcannon to say the only way for them to go hand to hand without collateral was for goku to reduce collateral.

Yeah, collateral damage from a specific way of fighting that was causing it that was dropped in the next episode for just fighting. Why didn't Goku "just fight" (as the Kai puts it) Beerus like he does next episode? The only reason he did it was to test out a technique, otherwise we would have seen him use that technique afterwords during the rest of the hands to hand combat.
He could easily predict and match those punches in three tries, I think Goku is skilled enough to move out of the way and "just fight" him like they did the very next episode.
Only for a while, but after that it changes from what they were doing in episode 12 to it being "just a fight." It was a technique developed for no reason that ultimately got planets filled with people killed.
No, but you can apparently fight without having to use that technique and without resorting to shockwave causing punches by "just fighting," the Kai outright said that was the reason the shockwaves weren't happening, not that Goku perfected the technique, but because they both stopped what they were doing in episode 12 and started "just fighting."
Clearly not, he puts the Earth in danger twice after that, his care for Earth clearly doesn't go far once a fight starts.
And they did next episode weight that technique, which highlights how Goku didn't need to develop in the first place, he could have "just fought" Beerus and no one would have to die so Goku can test out a technique to stop shockwaves that don't emerge of he simply "just fights" Beerus.
Or they could do like they did in episode 13 and not risk collateral damage during their hand to hand combat.

People died so Goku could test out a technique he'd drop an episode later in favour of having "just a fight." So yeah, he risked everything to literally test out an unneeded technique, he did just so he and Beerus could do what they did in episode 12.
If he has just fought Beerus instead of trying out that technique, he wouldn't have killed people and risked his home and family. That's the problem, the way the fight is portrayed, this was in no way necessary.

@Timothy
It wasn't, but it's not like Goku couldn't get around it easily.

@Timothy
He perfectly matched the punch in literally three tries, are you telling me he couldn't use his martial arts skill to dodge a punch so predictable he could perfectly match it in not even four attempts? You're making Goku sound incompetent.

We see after the shockwaves when they're fighting faster goku had to keep cancelling the collateral. It wasnt from them just charging at each other. Its shown he needed to cancel blows in high paced combat
Not just when they were charging.
Right when they claim to be ar 100% they begin to fight fast paced and Goku had to cancel the blows as we kept seeing the cancellation line come across the screen.
Like i said he needed that technique to fight hand to hand at that level with Beerus without collateral. Unless you wanna ignore that whole fight sequence and only reference them charging at each other
And you cant get too far in a fight solely on evasion and i already Made it clear he needed that technique in fast paced combat Not just them charging at each other

Except in episode 13 that don't show that effect at all, and more to the point, the lack of universal destruction is not said to have been due to Goku, but explicitly due to it becoming "just a fight." Why didn't Goku just fight Beerus then as he did later? If the Kai had told him that Goku was preventing it I might get what you meant, but he clearly says it's because the both of them stopped whatever dissent method they were doing before that threatened the shockwaves. It may not have been the bull rushing, but there was a clear difference between them fighting during and after episode 12. To say otherwise is to outright ignore the events of episode 13 and onwards.
Except you're wrong, because they do it in episode 13 and the reason the shockwaves don't happen at all is squarely said to be because "it's just a fight," unless we're just ignoring the Kais now, it's clear they could have just fought a la episode 13 instead of fighting in such a way that causes the universal shockwaves

The technique was used, and then shortly dropped once episode 13 rolled along.
Heck another fansub describes it as a brawl, and that definitely implies less control than before, like for example not perfectly matching your opponent's attacks in both direction and power.

Rewatch the fight mr.ignore. im not reffering to when Goku was a ssj. I made a direct reference to an exact moment. When they stated to be 100% they started fighting fast and as they exchanged blows the cancellation line kept appearing confirming it wasnt exclusive to charging at each other

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:37 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Bull-rushing is woefully inefficient if regular attacks have the exact same effect. Why were they charging their Ki before going at each other?

Goku's meant to be smart enough to come up with this counter-technique that works on every single one of Beerus' physical attacks, but he's not smart enough to try avoiding those attacks in the first place? He knew exactly what the shockwaves were doing, but instead of trying to save a massive amount of sentient life in the Universe, he wanted to try perfecting a completely unnecessary technique.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:42 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:37 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Bull-rushing is woefully inefficient if regular attacks have the exact same effect. Why were they charging their Ki before going at each other?

Goku's meant to be smart enough to come up with this counter-technique that works on every single one of Beerus' physical attacks, but he's not smart enough to try avoiding those attacks in the first place? He knew exactly what the shockwaves were doing, but instead of trying to save a massive amount of sentient life in the Universe, he wanted to try perfecting a completely unnecessary technique.

It wasnt unnecessary because they would've occurred in fast paced combat as well as proven by the cancellation lines. I edited that post so look again too. Goku dodging all those hits and having a chance at winning is 0%

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Quote:

 

They continue to fight but Goku leaves ssg form to ssj.

Spoiler: click to toggle

Its stated by beerus that goku fully merged with its power. Its also stated by vegeta to have surpassed ssg..

Spoiler: click to toggle

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:42 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:37 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Bull-rushing is woefully inefficient if regular attacks have the exact same effect. Why were they charging their Ki before going at each other?

Goku's meant to be smart enough to come up with this counter-technique that works on every single one of Beerus' physical attacks, but he's not smart enough to try avoiding those attacks in the first place? He knew exactly what the shockwaves were doing, but instead of trying to save a massive amount of sentient life in the Universe, he wanted to try perfecting a completely unnecessary technique.

It wasnt unnecessary because they would've occurred in fast paced combat as well as proven by the cancellation lines. I edited that post so look again too. Goku dodging all those hits and having a chance at winning is 0%

You think the regular attacks Beerus was throwing would result in the same shockwaves that were produced when he and Goku were charging their Ki before attacking each other? Even if ya wanna say that the regular attacks would cause shockwaves, they wouldn't be nearly as strong and destructive as the ones we actually saw.

Also, what about Golden Freeza? There's no way he learned the technique that Goku learned, but there weren't any 'cancellation lines' when he was throwing punches and kicks.

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:48 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:42 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:37 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Bull-rushing is woefully inefficient if regular attacks have the exact same effect. Why were they charging their Ki before going at each other?

Goku's meant to be smart enough to come up with this counter-technique that works on every single one of Beerus' physical attacks, but he's not smart enough to try avoiding those attacks in the first place? He knew exactly what the shockwaves were doing, but instead of trying to save a massive amount of sentient life in the Universe, he wanted to try perfecting a completely unnecessary technique.

It wasnt unnecessary because they would've occurred in fast paced combat as well as proven by the cancellation lines. I edited that post so look again too. Goku dodging all those hits and having a chance at winning is 0%

You think the regular attacks Beerus was throwing would result in the same shockwaves that were produced when he and Goku were charging their Ki before attacking each other? Even if ya wanna say that the regular attacks would cause shockwaves, they wouldn't be nearly as strong and destructive as the ones we actually saw.

Also, what about Golden Freeza? There's no way he learned the technique that Goku learned, but there weren't any 'cancellation lines' when he was throwing punches and kicks.

It was a Beerus exclusive thing. Like i said its shown in high speed combat when they stated to be at 100% that goku had to cancel him still

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:48 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:45 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:42 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:37 PM

Timothy

Jun 8 2016, 11:34 PM

Nagito Komaeda

Jun 8 2016, 11:29 PM

If the potential for shockwaves was still there, why was Beerus bothering with the bull-rushing in the first place?

You can crash into somebody
And you can run over somebody's head
Whatever you choose is your discretion. Idk how a god of destruction thinks


@Tinny elder kai implied that it was less serious than before and "just a brawl"
Makes sense as its shown Beerus bloodlust dropped as he gained respect for Goku

Bull-rushing is woefully inefficient if regular attacks have the exact same effect. Why were they charging their Ki before going at each other?

Goku's meant to be smart enough to come up with this counter-technique that works on every single one of Beerus' physical attacks, but he's not smart enough to try avoiding those attacks in the first place? He knew exactly what the shockwaves were doing, but instead of trying to save a massive amount of sentient life in the Universe, he wanted to try perfecting a completely unnecessary technique.

It wasnt unnecessary because they would've occurred in fast paced combat as well as proven by the cancellation lines. I edited that post so look again too. Goku dodging all those hits and having a chance at winning is 0%

You think the regular attacks Beerus was throwing would result in the same shockwaves that were produced when he and Goku were charging their Ki before attacking each other? Even if ya wanna say that the regular attacks would cause shockwaves, they wouldn't be nearly as strong and destructive as the ones we actually saw.

Also, what about Golden Freeza? There's no way he learned the technique that Goku learned, but there weren't any 'cancellation lines' when he was throwing punches and kicks.

It was a Beerus exclusive thing. Like i said its shown in high speed combat when they stated to be at 100% that goku had to cancel him still

@Tinny they were caused Because Beerus wanted to cause them. Simple asc that

Judau Ashtha

Jun 9 2016, 12:02 AM

@that's a small step towards an evil act like stealing power from someone or forcing them to transfer it to him.

Wow! Really? And here I thought that all the remaining DB cast, barring Goku and Vegeta, were like, "Screw this, I don't want to die! So, lets just get on with this gibberish Super Saiyan God nonsense by giving our power to Goku. Please Save us Goku!" And Goku was like, "I don't know guys, I wanna beat him on my own.....". And Everyone were like, "Goku! Just beat him already! We don't care for your principles! Just take our power!". And then Goku was like "Fine! But I am doing this for my family,friends and Earth only." Vegeta is like "Grumble Grumble!". And then finally sighs, "Whatever!"

So yeah, it sounded, for me, more like the remaining Z cast, barring Vegeta and Goku, were requesting Goku to save them(or maybe more like begging him perhaps?) and not stealing.