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Would you die for your country?
Topic Started: May 25 2016, 02:16 AM (1,858 Views)
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Crazy Awesome Legend

I think this is a trick question engineered by none other than Prince Philip. So yes I would die for my country Philip.


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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

I would only really consider it if it was like some action movie cliché where I had to do it or everyone else would die including myself anyway.

If I were to sacrifice myself I'd need to know it would actually matter. Make me a hero not some "Oh no he died" week later everyone forgets kind of thing or no.

Never really understood the question anyway "Would you die for someone/some sort of ideal"

No, I'll just not die for them and strive to exceed in every endeavour for their betterment. Much more noble.
If aliens invade, not going to die for my people, going to kill all the aliens or die trying.
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I can understand not in-listing because of political motives (i.e Not trusting George w***er Bush and the Iraq War - 1st and 2nd and fighting for peace so we must invade another country to prevent terrorism), but this is your country the TC is speaking of. Disappointing to read that lot of you are not willing to die for your country :unsure:

WW2, women was doing their part to support the men at war. I guess freedom quickly changes peoples perspective, people seem to forget what the Japanese and Germans did to Pearl harbour and Poland, and then later England.
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Tinny
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People don't die for their country, they die for the people they care about residing in them for the most part, or their pride, or a multitude of different factors, it's not simply "their country." A country is far too many people for anyone to care about just by simple science.

Defending their home maybe, but again allot of it comes down to things within said country that they have value in. They don't die for "Their country." They die for something more specific than that, something you can actually grasp and understand as a whole. Maybe it's duty, or honor, or pride, or their family, stubbornness, ideals, and so on. I'm not going to die for something as nebulous and undefined as my country, that's far too many people for me to be able to understand them. So in this case I'd think of say, something I care about like "freedom," or maybe I just think of my family and remember there are probably a bunch of people like that back home that might die if I fail, perhaps it's just duty or friendship, I'm not gonna rat out my comrades. Things like that are what people die for, not "their country." You need a more personal stake in the fight than that, especially now a days that allot of my friends aren't in America or Americans.

And what does that even have to do with anything? "You won't fight for nebulous political organization so you must be fine with nazis and death camps" or what? I don't get what you're trying to say with that. They aren't fighting for "their country" so much as the Japanese attacked them and killed innocent people in cold blood with nothing resembling honor, same with the Germans. They were stopping forces they saw as evil before they eventually attacked them (which can easily lead back into dying for your family). That's different from "Their country."
Edited by Tinny, May 26 2016, 11:35 AM.
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SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 01:43 AM
I can understand not in-listing because of political motives (i.e Not trusting George w***er Bush and the Iraq War - 1st and 2nd and fighting for peace so we must invade another country to prevent terrorism), but this is your country the TC is speaking of. Disappointing to read that lot of you are not willing to die for your country :unsure:

WW2, women was doing their part to support the men at war. I guess freedom quickly changes peoples perspective, people seem to forget what the Japanese and Germans did to Pearl harbour and Poland, and then later England.
Yeah, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because the U.S. stopped their oil-export and put embargoes on many of their raw materials. Do they teach your that part in the U.S. as well?

Germany got split into two parts after the war. Entire families were split up because they lost the war. They didn't get a lot of freedom now did they?
Every story has two sides, my country is not superior to another one just because I happened to have been born there.

Thing is. The Wehrmacht soldiers didn't know they were the bad guys, they were fighting for their country the same way you are willing to fight for yours apparently.
Edited by Ginyu, May 26 2016, 12:19 PM.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

That raises an interesting point. What if your country is in the wrong like Nazi Germany or Austria Hungary? You can't be expected to die for something you think is completely unjustified or a tyrannical regime.


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Tinny
May 26 2016, 02:52 AM
People don't die for their country, they die for the people they care about residing in them for the most part, or their pride, or a multitude of different factors, it's not simply "their country." A country is far too many people for anyone to care about just by simple science.

Defending their home maybe, but again allot of it comes down to things within said country that they have value in. They don't die for "Their country." They die for something more specific than that, something you can actually grasp and understand as a whole. Maybe it's duty, or honor, or pride, or their family, stubbornness, ideals, and so on. I'm not going to die for something as nebulous and undefined as my country, that's far too many people for me to be able to understand them. So in this case I'd think of say, something I care about like "freedom," or maybe I just think of my family and remember there are probably a bunch of people like that back home that might die if I fail, perhaps it's just duty or friendship, I'm not gonna rat out my comrades. Things like that are what people die for, not "their country." You need a more personal stake in the fight than that, especially now a days that allot of my friends aren't in America or Americans.

And what does that even have to do with anything? "You won't fight for nebulous political organization so you must be fine with nazis and death camps" or what? I don't get what you're trying to say with that. They aren't fighting for "their country" so much as the Japanese attacked them and killed innocent people in cold blood with nothing resembling honor, same with the Germans. They were stopping forces they saw as evil before they eventually attacked them (which can easily lead back into dying for your family). That's different from "Their country."


Bulllocks...Where is your home located? Where does your parents live, where are you going buy your first home? Your country is much more than land, our grandparents were willing to die for the freedom that our countries stood for. The freedom that allows other nationalities to migrate and wanting to call home.

GinyuTokusentai
May 26 2016, 12:15 PM
SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 01:43 AM
I can understand not in-listing because of political motives (i.e Not trusting George w***er Bush and the Iraq War - 1st and 2nd and fighting for peace so we must invade another country to prevent terrorism), but this is your country the TC is speaking of. Disappointing to read that lot of you are not willing to die for your country :unsure:

WW2, women was doing their part to support the men at war. I guess freedom quickly changes peoples perspective, people seem to forget what the Japanese and Germans did to Pearl harbour and Poland, and then later England.
Yeah, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because the U.S. stopped their oil-export and put embargoes on many of their raw materials. Do they teach your that part in the U.S. as well?

Germany got split into two parts after the war. Entire families were split up because they lost the war. They didn't get a lot of freedom now did they?
Every story has two sides, my country is not superior to another one just because I happened to have been born there.

Thing is. The Wehrmacht soldiers didn't know they were the bad guys, they were fighting for their country the same way you are willing to fight for yours apparently.


I don't need a history lesson, your last post proves that our greatest generation were back in the 40's, where now people feel their entitled and want the next person to do the fighting for them as they choose to further their career, just remember the freedom you enjoy was paid for in blood.

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So in other words, everyone here is willing to "die for their country" because they'd die for their family/freedom? Because that's what I'm understanding here from you, in which case I don't understand why you were disappointed in the first place because everyone essentially said yes.

Heck even you seem to agree based on wording.
Dying for the freedom our countries stood for. In other words, they didn't die for their country. They died for freedom, which they felt their country stood for.

Also you've barely even addressed anything Ginyu said, to the point where I'm wondering if you're trolling or not (in my defense you outright identified yourself as a troll).

Also:

"A country is a region that is identified as a distinct entity in political geograph"
It's literally a piece of land with a distinct political identity. No one does for that, they die for the values said country exhibits, but not the actual country. They die for the people residing in it, or the values it exhibits, but again, not the actual political entity itself.


To put it another way, America is not worth dying for, but American values such as democracy and freedom are, and the American people are of course worth dying for, and as far as I can tell, that's close enough in practice. At least in my case, iirc you're Chinese so in your case it'd Chinese values or the people of China.
Edited by Tinny, May 26 2016, 01:16 PM.
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Spain is not worth dying for.
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SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 12:50 PM
Tinny
May 26 2016, 02:52 AM
People don't die for their country, they die for the people they care about residing in them for the most part, or their pride, or a multitude of different factors, it's not simply "their country." A country is far too many people for anyone to care about just by simple science.

Defending their home maybe, but again allot of it comes down to things within said country that they have value in. They don't die for "Their country." They die for something more specific than that, something you can actually grasp and understand as a whole. Maybe it's duty, or honor, or pride, or their family, stubbornness, ideals, and so on. I'm not going to die for something as nebulous and undefined as my country, that's far too many people for me to be able to understand them. So in this case I'd think of say, something I care about like "freedom," or maybe I just think of my family and remember there are probably a bunch of people like that back home that might die if I fail, perhaps it's just duty or friendship, I'm not gonna rat out my comrades. Things like that are what people die for, not "their country." You need a more personal stake in the fight than that, especially now a days that allot of my friends aren't in America or Americans.

And what does that even have to do with anything? "You won't fight for nebulous political organization so you must be fine with nazis and death camps" or what? I don't get what you're trying to say with that. They aren't fighting for "their country" so much as the Japanese attacked them and killed innocent people in cold blood with nothing resembling honor, same with the Germans. They were stopping forces they saw as evil before they eventually attacked them (which can easily lead back into dying for your family). That's different from "Their country."


Bulllocks...Where is your home located? Where does your parents live, where are you going buy your first home? Your country is much more than land, our grandparents were willing to die for the freedom that our countries stood for. The freedom that allows other nationalities to migrate and wanting to call home.

GinyuTokusentai
May 26 2016, 12:15 PM
SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 01:43 AM
I can understand not in-listing because of political motives (i.e Not trusting George w***er Bush and the Iraq War - 1st and 2nd and fighting for peace so we must invade another country to prevent terrorism), but this is your country the TC is speaking of. Disappointing to read that lot of you are not willing to die for your country :unsure:

WW2, women was doing their part to support the men at war. I guess freedom quickly changes peoples perspective, people seem to forget what the Japanese and Germans did to Pearl harbour and Poland, and then later England.
Yeah, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because the U.S. stopped their oil-export and put embargoes on many of their raw materials. Do they teach your that part in the U.S. as well?

Germany got split into two parts after the war. Entire families were split up because they lost the war. They didn't get a lot of freedom now did they?
Every story has two sides, my country is not superior to another one just because I happened to have been born there.

Thing is. The Wehrmacht soldiers didn't know they were the bad guys, they were fighting for their country the same way you are willing to fight for yours apparently.


I don't need a history lesson, your last post proves that our greatest generation were back in the 40's, where now people feel their entitled and want the next person to do the fighting for them as they choose to further their career, just remember the freedom you enjoy was paid for in blood.

Oh, don't give me your juvenoia BS. People weren't massively born braver in the 40s. You do realize that people didn't have a choice in joining the army did you?
You also completely ignored my point about not knowing if you're on the right side.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Back in the 40s where we still had a law which make witchcraft illegal. Where women were second class citizens people couldn't openly identify as homosexual for fear of their lives. Where a person of colour couldn't get a decent education. Where Jewish people were openly persecuted. Back in the 40s when domestic abuse was rampant and unpunished. Where violent gangsters ruled the streets. Where there was so much air pollution that people actually died from it. Where you would go to prison to refusing to join the armed forces. No minimum wage. No child support. No help for the physically disabled or the mentally handicapped.

Yeah the 1940s was great. Keep telling yourself that. Seems you actually did need a history lesson.


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GinyuTokusentai
May 26 2016, 01:01 PM
SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 12:50 PM
Tinny
May 26 2016, 02:52 AM
People don't die for their country, they die for the people they care about residing in them for the most part, or their pride, or a multitude of different factors, it's not simply "their country." A country is far too many people for anyone to care about just by simple science.

Defending their home maybe, but again allot of it comes down to things within said country that they have value in. They don't die for "Their country." They die for something more specific than that, something you can actually grasp and understand as a whole. Maybe it's duty, or honor, or pride, or their family, stubbornness, ideals, and so on. I'm not going to die for something as nebulous and undefined as my country, that's far too many people for me to be able to understand them. So in this case I'd think of say, something I care about like "freedom," or maybe I just think of my family and remember there are probably a bunch of people like that back home that might die if I fail, perhaps it's just duty or friendship, I'm not gonna rat out my comrades. Things like that are what people die for, not "their country." You need a more personal stake in the fight than that, especially now a days that allot of my friends aren't in America or Americans.

And what does that even have to do with anything? "You won't fight for nebulous political organization so you must be fine with nazis and death camps" or what? I don't get what you're trying to say with that. They aren't fighting for "their country" so much as the Japanese attacked them and killed innocent people in cold blood with nothing resembling honor, same with the Germans. They were stopping forces they saw as evil before they eventually attacked them (which can easily lead back into dying for your family). That's different from "Their country."


Bulllocks...Where is your home located? Where does your parents live, where are you going buy your first home? Your country is much more than land, our grandparents were willing to die for the freedom that our countries stood for. The freedom that allows other nationalities to migrate and wanting to call home.

GinyuTokusentai
May 26 2016, 12:15 PM
SSj4 Gotenks
May 26 2016, 01:43 AM
I can understand not in-listing because of political motives (i.e Not trusting George w***er Bush and the Iraq War - 1st and 2nd and fighting for peace so we must invade another country to prevent terrorism), but this is your country the TC is speaking of. Disappointing to read that lot of you are not willing to die for your country :unsure:

WW2, women was doing their part to support the men at war. I guess freedom quickly changes peoples perspective, people seem to forget what the Japanese and Germans did to Pearl harbour and Poland, and then later England.
Yeah, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because the U.S. stopped their oil-export and put embargoes on many of their raw materials. Do they teach your that part in the U.S. as well?

Germany got split into two parts after the war. Entire families were split up because they lost the war. They didn't get a lot of freedom now did they?
Every story has two sides, my country is not superior to another one just because I happened to have been born there.

Thing is. The Wehrmacht soldiers didn't know they were the bad guys, they were fighting for their country the same way you are willing to fight for yours apparently.


I don't need a history lesson, your last post proves that our greatest generation were back in the 40's, where now people feel their entitled and want the next person to do the fighting for them as they choose to further their career, just remember the freedom you enjoy was paid for in blood.

Oh, don't give me your juvenoia BS. People weren't massively born braver in the 40s. You do realize that people didn't have a choice in joining the army did you?
You also completely ignored my point about not knowing if you're on the right side.
Iirc the age limit for those who got drafted was also higher, so the ones being sent out generally had a better idea of what they were fighting for and against. So that's another thing to keep in mind.
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Dying for a loved one is completely different from dying for your country.

And for the record, I don't want anyone fighting for me. If the countries that people are willing to die for had any sense, people wouldn't have to die for them.
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@Tinny

Who is engine? Is that some sort of humour?

As usual you misunderstood.

What does replying to Ginyu post that has nothing to do with my intentions have to do with anything?

Read his first post and others who say they absolutely will not die for their country, but will die for civil rights and other things that make a free country great. If you have no love a country that allows you to speak your mind, f*** off to another country then.

And also did you seriously bring a definition of what a country is to this debate?

Everybody knows a country by definition is geography divided by borders made by men, but your country is your home, the place where you were born, your parents and grandparents, or if you migrated to a free country (to America, England, Canada, among others), it's the freedom and ideas that drawn you to migrate. People who live in the country that believes in its constitution and everything that makes it great, and if you think a country is just a piece of land then your an .

Secondly, I'm only replying because I'm shocked at the level people here showed, people who are from England, Canada and America are saying these things, I'm not saying go defend your country blindly, most people here are from America, England where democracy rules and lucky you ain't in Iraq, Saudi Arabia or China who would have you arrested, tortured and killed.

So what makes the country great? Is it the land... off course not.


Ginyu first post


@Ginyu

I ain't even going to respond to someone that hesitates to even die for their family. Your post makes you look like coward, and like I've said, I don't need a history lesson that i already know. And you're wrong, people were willing to fight to defend their countries.


Edited by Zoom, May 26 2016, 02:18 PM.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Those things you're arguing for are pretty universal. Everyone wants democracy and freedom and civil rights. They aren't exclusive to our nations. So it doesn't make sense to die for your country based on those things alone. Humanity yes, Earth yes, England, nah. Besides what even is a country? Invisible lines drawn up by men long dead which will probably be moved again by men yet to be born. It doesn't mean anything. I was born on this patch of land so I must therefore defend it with my life? That's not a rational thought. I think I'll put my own life before what corrupt politicians tell me is mine, when in reality we own nothing.


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