Goddess Ultimecia

May 25 2016, 04:17 AM

I've always been under the impression that in an equal powers situation, the only thing that is equalized are ki levels. Omega's durability is likely related to his anatomy. Unless of course you want to apply Freeza's Otherworldly survivability to Goku in an equal powers bout.

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

Tinny

May 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

And again, from what we've seen these moves can be over powered easily just on everything we've seen. And once again, assuming he does use it (let's assume the speculation is correct and he will use it), this only delays the inevitable as Omega is both stronger and faster than Whis, likely by a very good margin considering what they've both shown against stronger and weaker opponents respectively.

Whis sped behind him of course he wasn't in his sight.

Okay, lets go through this frame by frame. Whis disappears, on slow down it looks like he didn't use any special technique, merely disappearing the way dbz fighters always disappear, unless you'd like to tell me that Whis and Piccolo jr. Saga Goku have the same technique. Vegeta comes out of water and looks left then right for Whis (he seems to be searching with his eyes than his ki sensing for some reason), then Whis immediately appears behind him, then for like, one frame we have blue lines behind him, the animation and art is suggesting that Whis got behind Vegeta really fast I assume, rather than say, forming out of thin air. Then Vegeta looks behind him and sees Whis before getting knocked out.
Vegeta found him immediately when Whis appeared and stood still, this was not stealth, it was speed, unless you'd like to explain how Whis apparently flubbed his stealth at the last moment. The only thing suggested he teleported during this fight, is Xenoverse frankly. Which is looking to be made more noncanon than it already is anyway considering Future Trunks in DBS.

I'm gonna need help seeing what Goku and Vegeta during their fight has to do with this. They were even, this is like ssj3 Goku going up against the Farmer. And even if it wasn't, DBS has sneak attack doing tons of damage faaaaaaaaaaaar beyond their power level, but GT had a very similar situation with nothing coming out of it. So assuming I said yes, this would only work against Whis, not for him.



At 1:40 He got caught by someone far far far far far far weaker than him. So in equal stats Omega Shenron has shown to be both more durable (great if he takes a hit), have a better variety of attacks (many many many), ungodly regeneration, a few hax moves, and more speed. The only thing Whis has on him is flexibility and potentially the ability to block attacks, which Omega has as well with his speed advantage. Omega already wins even if this was equal stats, since it's equal power levels, Whis is a complete goner here, his only hope is frankly is playing dead and hoping Omega gets bored.

lazerbem

May 25 2016, 08:10 PM

Omega's ice techniques from Eis cannot be underestimated here. These are actually shown to work on people stronger than the user unless they have adapted to it prior, Omega has a very real chance of one shotting here by just freezing Whis with one of his ice beams.

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 08:02 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

And again, from what we've seen these moves can be over powered easily just on everything we've seen. And once again, assuming he does use it (let's assume the speculation is correct and he will use it), this only delays the inevitable as Omega is both stronger and faster than Whis, likely by a very good margin considering what they've both shown against stronger and weaker opponents respectively.

Whis sped behind him of course he wasn't in his sight.

Okay, lets go through this frame by frame. Whis disappears, on slow down it looks like he didn't use any special technique, merely disappearing the way dbz fighters always disappear, unless you'd like to tell me that Whis and Piccolo jr. Saga Goku have the same technique. Vegeta comes out of water and looks left then right for Whis (he seems to be searching with his eyes than his ki sensing for some reason), then Whis immediately appears behind him, then for like, one frame we have blue lines behind him, the animation and art is suggesting that Whis got behind Vegeta really fast I assume, rather than say, forming out of thin air. Then Vegeta looks behind him and sees Whis before getting knocked out.
Vegeta found him immediately when Whis appeared and stood still, this was not stealth, it was speed, unless you'd like to explain how Whis apparently flubbed his stealth at the last moment. The only thing suggested he teleported during this fight, is Xenoverse frankly. Which is looking to be made more noncanon than it already is anyway considering Future Trunks in DBS.

I'm gonna need help seeing what Goku and Vegeta during their fight has to do with this. They were even, this is like ssj3 Goku going up against the Farmer. And even if it wasn't, DBS has sneak attack doing tons of damage faaaaaaaaaaaar beyond their power level, but GT had a very similar situation with nothing coming out of it. So assuming I said yes, this would only work against Whis, not for him.



At 1:40 He got caught by someone far far far far far far weaker than him. So in equal stats Omega Shenron has shown to be both more durable (great if he takes a hit), have a better variety of attacks (many many many), ungodly regeneration, a few hax moves, and more speed. The only thing Whis has on him is flexibility and potentially the ability to block attacks, which Omega has as well with his speed advantage. Omega already wins even if this was equal stats, since it's equal power levels, Whis is a complete goner here, his only hope is frankly is playing dead and hoping Omega gets bored.

Okay, tell me though, what how exactly is Whis transporting ki attacks to another dimension hax? It's not like I'm saying Whis wins, but to suggest he'd lose even though we know he can use the powers he shown, is quite ridiculous. How'd you figured Omega's stronger? Does he have any feats or statements that says he physically superior to Whis? And what about speed wise?

Point taken, but Vegeta was taken by surprise still given the way he looked. It's not like he was expecting Whis to be behind him. And I also said he had two ways to find him, didn't say he did or didn't. No, he teleports here personally but in Super, he teleports Goku and Vegeta inside Beerus's room where they get hit by an unrestricted ki blast.

My point is that, regarding Goku vs Vegeta back then, was the fact they was even yet if they lose track or consciously are not in combat mode, they'd go down just easily as Whis did to Vegeta in the movie. Point is, strong or even, pressure point strikes still work if off guard or simply not in a combat mode.

He got caught? What's so good about that? He can escape grapples easily so I don't see the big deal. Only thing I can give Omega is the durability, elements manipulation, hax regen. Whis has matter manipulation (at least on the molecular level if he and Vados are the same anyway), instantaneous reactions, fluent style of fighting, can rewind time, and can conjure portals that warp objects into it.

Tinny

May 25 2016, 08:42 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 08:02 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

And again, from what we've seen these moves can be over powered easily just on everything we've seen. And once again, assuming he does use it (let's assume the speculation is correct and he will use it), this only delays the inevitable as Omega is both stronger and faster than Whis, likely by a very good margin considering what they've both shown against stronger and weaker opponents respectively.

Whis sped behind him of course he wasn't in his sight.

Okay, lets go through this frame by frame. Whis disappears, on slow down it looks like he didn't use any special technique, merely disappearing the way dbz fighters always disappear, unless you'd like to tell me that Whis and Piccolo jr. Saga Goku have the same technique. Vegeta comes out of water and looks left then right for Whis (he seems to be searching with his eyes than his ki sensing for some reason), then Whis immediately appears behind him, then for like, one frame we have blue lines behind him, the animation and art is suggesting that Whis got behind Vegeta really fast I assume, rather than say, forming out of thin air. Then Vegeta looks behind him and sees Whis before getting knocked out.
Vegeta found him immediately when Whis appeared and stood still, this was not stealth, it was speed, unless you'd like to explain how Whis apparently flubbed his stealth at the last moment. The only thing suggested he teleported during this fight, is Xenoverse frankly. Which is looking to be made more noncanon than it already is anyway considering Future Trunks in DBS.

I'm gonna need help seeing what Goku and Vegeta during their fight has to do with this. They were even, this is like ssj3 Goku going up against the Farmer. And even if it wasn't, DBS has sneak attack doing tons of damage faaaaaaaaaaaar beyond their power level, but GT had a very similar situation with nothing coming out of it. So assuming I said yes, this would only work against Whis, not for him.



At 1:40 He got caught by someone far far far far far far weaker than him. So in equal stats Omega Shenron has shown to be both more durable (great if he takes a hit), have a better variety of attacks (many many many), ungodly regeneration, a few hax moves, and more speed. The only thing Whis has on him is flexibility and potentially the ability to block attacks, which Omega has as well with his speed advantage. Omega already wins even if this was equal stats, since it's equal power levels, Whis is a complete goner here, his only hope is frankly is playing dead and hoping Omega gets bored.

Okay, tell me though, what how exactly is Whis transporting ki attacks to another dimension hax? It's not like I'm saying Whis wins, but to suggest he'd lose even though we know he can use the powers he shown, is quite ridiculous. How'd you figured Omega's stronger? Does he have any feats or statements that says he physically superior to Whis? And what about speed wise?

Point taken, but Vegeta was taken by surprise still given the way he looked. It's not like he was expecting Whis to be behind him. And I also said he had two ways to find him, didn't say he did or didn't. No, he teleports here personally but in Super, he teleports Goku and Vegeta inside Beerus's room where they get hit by an unrestricted ki blast.

My point is that, regarding Goku vs Vegeta back then, was the fact they was even yet if they lose track or consciously are not in combat mode, they'd go down just easily as Whis did to Vegeta in the movie. Point is, strong or even, pressure point strikes still work if off guard or simply not in a combat mode.

He got caught? What's so good about that? He can escape grapples easily so I don't see the big deal. Only thing I can give Omega is the durability, elements manipulation, hax regen. Whis has matter manipulation (at least on the molecular level if he and Vados are the same anyway), instantaneous reactions, fluent style of fighting, can rewind time, and can conjure portals that warp objects into it.

Let's get off that subject for now, I'm already going forward assuming he does it even though I'm 99.9% sure he won't when he actually gets into a fight with someone he can't one shot with a well placed hair flip. Physically superior I mentioned his durability against someone far stronger, remind me what are Whis's feats against people stronger than him? Speed wise Whis has an anti-feat. Omega is faster because Whis is slow.

And this 100% always forever and ever and never equates to anything but that Whis teleported there or can do something never shown in Dragon Ball (I'm assuming this is separate from suppressing your ki, otherwise I have to question how that's gonna help). How has Whis used this in battle?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but when was this shown outside of DBS? Specifically within Z or GT (since GT seems to at least somewhat follow Z rules). Because in GT a sneak attack attempted resulted in nothing happening, while in DBS a god level opponent can get one shot by an attack that is at best, Ginyu arc levels.

Are you telling me Omega Shenron can't punch and can only hug? Frankly that seems so much of a disadvantage I wonder why you didn't just say that, I guess Whis stomps since he can actually punch and Omega can only hug people. No it's called a punch, and Omega Shenron can use from behind, and knowing Omega Shenron he won't have any hesitations about playing dirty.

And instantaneous reactions?

In what universe is this instant? You may as well say Whis summons the Living Tribunal. If anything this just shows how slow Whis is for his power level, Goku could easily walk circles around Burter and Jeice and even with a two pronged attack they never layed a hand on him, compare with Vegeta who had him in a hold. And what fluent style of fighting? How is it fluent? at this point you may as well say "Whis has a higher power level." Because that entire point is nullified by the fact that he can one shot a man more than ten times more powerful than these guys. I mean seriously just to show what you're essentially saying let me use another example

I guess in equal power level fights Raditz speed blitzes everyone sans Burter. No that's silly right?
and that's because the farmer is a weakling, and so are Goku and Vegeta, Whis's so called fluent style of fighting is only due to his incredible power advantage. It's so absurdly high that a fight between them is honestly gonna be like a fight between Raditz and the Farmer.
I mean, how do you say that Whis has a better fighting style? What has he shown in combat against those who might actually stand a chance? What has he shown period aside from being faster and stronger than beings less than a tenth as powerful as a man he can one shot whenever he wants?
Okay, now how is he gonna win the second time against someone more durable, with a better variety of attacks, a willingness to play dirty, an is faster. This is assuming he even survives the first bout, considering how slow Whis is compared to his power level, Omega Shenron might be able to just speed blitz him and kill him before he even knows what's going on, we already know what namek level attacks do to gods, what's an unexpected attack he didn't see coming from someone just as strong as him gonna do to Whis?
Again, how does he use this in combat? Can you show me how he uses this in combat?
teleporting also lies in the same thing, how does he use it in combat?
Omega can one shot Whis in this event, either with ice or with a simple run behind him and punch him. Whis has nothing substantial in this fight, he has theories, speculation, and headcanon as to how he'll use his noncombat abilities in combat, where for all we know he might not even think to use them in a fight even when they would save his life, or maybe he'll immediately teleported inside his opponent and kill them that way, all of which is speculation.
I'm going by what I've seen of him fighting, and what I've seen is not impressive enough to take down someone who's already arguably a monster in equal stats let alone somewhere where he can bring his completely ridiculous durability to bear.

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 10:42 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 08:42 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 08:02 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

And again, from what we've seen these moves can be over powered easily just on everything we've seen. And once again, assuming he does use it (let's assume the speculation is correct and he will use it), this only delays the inevitable as Omega is both stronger and faster than Whis, likely by a very good margin considering what they've both shown against stronger and weaker opponents respectively.

Whis sped behind him of course he wasn't in his sight.

Okay, lets go through this frame by frame. Whis disappears, on slow down it looks like he didn't use any special technique, merely disappearing the way dbz fighters always disappear, unless you'd like to tell me that Whis and Piccolo jr. Saga Goku have the same technique. Vegeta comes out of water and looks left then right for Whis (he seems to be searching with his eyes than his ki sensing for some reason), then Whis immediately appears behind him, then for like, one frame we have blue lines behind him, the animation and art is suggesting that Whis got behind Vegeta really fast I assume, rather than say, forming out of thin air. Then Vegeta looks behind him and sees Whis before getting knocked out.
Vegeta found him immediately when Whis appeared and stood still, this was not stealth, it was speed, unless you'd like to explain how Whis apparently flubbed his stealth at the last moment. The only thing suggested he teleported during this fight, is Xenoverse frankly. Which is looking to be made more noncanon than it already is anyway considering Future Trunks in DBS.

I'm gonna need help seeing what Goku and Vegeta during their fight has to do with this. They were even, this is like ssj3 Goku going up against the Farmer. And even if it wasn't, DBS has sneak attack doing tons of damage faaaaaaaaaaaar beyond their power level, but GT had a very similar situation with nothing coming out of it. So assuming I said yes, this would only work against Whis, not for him.



At 1:40 He got caught by someone far far far far far far weaker than him. So in equal stats Omega Shenron has shown to be both more durable (great if he takes a hit), have a better variety of attacks (many many many), ungodly regeneration, a few hax moves, and more speed. The only thing Whis has on him is flexibility and potentially the ability to block attacks, which Omega has as well with his speed advantage. Omega already wins even if this was equal stats, since it's equal power levels, Whis is a complete goner here, his only hope is frankly is playing dead and hoping Omega gets bored.

Okay, tell me though, what how exactly is Whis transporting ki attacks to another dimension hax? It's not like I'm saying Whis wins, but to suggest he'd lose even though we know he can use the powers he shown, is quite ridiculous. How'd you figured Omega's stronger? Does he have any feats or statements that says he physically superior to Whis? And what about speed wise?

Point taken, but Vegeta was taken by surprise still given the way he looked. It's not like he was expecting Whis to be behind him. And I also said he had two ways to find him, didn't say he did or didn't. No, he teleports here personally but in Super, he teleports Goku and Vegeta inside Beerus's room where they get hit by an unrestricted ki blast.

My point is that, regarding Goku vs Vegeta back then, was the fact they was even yet if they lose track or consciously are not in combat mode, they'd go down just easily as Whis did to Vegeta in the movie. Point is, strong or even, pressure point strikes still work if off guard or simply not in a combat mode.

He got caught? What's so good about that? He can escape grapples easily so I don't see the big deal. Only thing I can give Omega is the durability, elements manipulation, hax regen. Whis has matter manipulation (at least on the molecular level if he and Vados are the same anyway), instantaneous reactions, fluent style of fighting, can rewind time, and can conjure portals that warp objects into it.

Let's get off that subject for now, I'm already going forward assuming he does it even though I'm 99.9% sure he won't when he actually gets into a fight with someone he can't one shot with a well placed hair flip. Physically superior I mentioned his durability against someone far stronger, remind me what are Whis's feats against people stronger than him? Speed wise Whis has an anti-feat. Omega is faster because Whis is slow.

And this 100% always forever and ever and never equates to anything but that Whis teleported there or can do something never shown in Dragon Ball (I'm assuming this is separate from suppressing your ki, otherwise I have to question how that's gonna help). How has Whis used this in battle?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but when was this shown outside of DBS? Specifically within Z or GT (since GT seems to at least somewhat follow Z rules). Because in GT a sneak attack attempted resulted in nothing happening, while in DBS a god level opponent can get one shot by an attack that is at best, Ginyu arc levels.

Are you telling me Omega Shenron can't punch and can only hug? Frankly that seems so much of a disadvantage I wonder why you didn't just say that, I guess Whis stomps since he can actually punch and Omega can only hug people. No it's called a punch, and Omega Shenron can use from behind, and knowing Omega Shenron he won't have any hesitations about playing dirty.

And instantaneous reactions?

In what universe is this instant? You may as well say Whis summons the Living Tribunal. If anything this just shows how slow Whis is for his power level, Goku could easily walk circles around Burter and Jeice and even with a two pronged attack they never layed a hand on him, compare with Vegeta who had him in a hold. And what fluent style of fighting? How is it fluent? at this point you may as well say "Whis has a higher power level." Because that entire point is nullified by the fact that he can one shot a man more than ten times more powerful than these guys. I mean seriously just to show what you're essentially saying let me use another example

I guess in equal power level fights Raditz speed blitzes everyone sans Burter. No that's silly right?
and that's because the farmer is a weakling, and so are Goku and Vegeta, Whis's so called fluent style of fighting is only due to his incredible power advantage. It's so absurdly high that a fight between them is honestly gonna be like a fight between Raditz and the Farmer.
I mean, how do you say that Whis has a better fighting style? What has he shown in combat against those who might actually stand a chance? What has he shown period aside from being faster and stronger than beings less than a tenth as powerful as a man he can one shot whenever he wants?
Okay, now how is he gonna win the second time against someone more durable, with a better variety of attacks, a willingness to play dirty, an is faster. This is assuming he even survives the first bout, considering how slow Whis is compared to his power level, Omega Shenron might be able to just speed blitz him and kill him before he even knows what's going on, we already know what namek level attacks do to gods, what's an unexpected attack he didn't see coming from someone just as strong as him gonna do to Whis?
Again, how does he use this in combat? Can you show me how he uses this in combat?
teleporting also lies in the same thing, how does he use it in combat?
Omega can one shot Whis in this event, either with ice or with a simple run behind him and punch him. Whis has nothing substantial in this fight, he has theories, speculation, and headcanon as to how he'll use his noncombat abilities in combat, where for all we know he might not even think to use them in a fight even when they would save his life, or maybe he'll immediately teleported inside his opponent and kill them that way, all of which is speculation.
I'm going by what I've seen of him fighting, and what I've seen is not impressive enough to take down someone who's already arguably a monster in equal stats let alone somewhere where he can bring his completely ridiculous durability to bear.

Whis doesn't have any feats against beings stronger then him. But neither does Omega, barring the one feat you speak of him surviving the Big Bang Kamehameha. If you're talking about Vegeta grappling Whis from behind as the "anti-feat" that doesn't prove anything other then Whis can easily recover and put out a reversal on grapples.

What does the second point try to get at?

Super Saiyan 4 Goku karate chopped Super Baby 2 in the neck, while he was aware of Goku's presence. The chop is here and only here but it doesn't knock him out cold despite being likely 10 times more powerful. I'm certain if Baby lost visual, he'd been KO'd too.

I didn't say Omega can't fight, I said Whis has a legit style to utilize unlike Omega. What can Omega do physically to match Whis's reversal style of fighting? He has no substance at all.

That doesn't disprove it, Vegeta clasped onto him and Whis countered him. Vegeta's attempt didn't amount to anything. Pretty positive Whis meant during exchanges of attacks. C'mon you're being ridiculous with that one, The Living Tribunal isn't related to Dragon Ball. He can summon whatever he pleases in the Dragon Ball universe that extends from earthly means and beyond. So just because he does something "amazing" it's crap because he's strong? Of course it is but you saying this like Whis is going all out, which he isn't, when he's fighting them at a adequate level of power that allows them to grow stronger and view they're weaknesses. He fought his sister (off screen I believe) before, given that they're around the same strength, I'm willing to believe they got a similar style. Only the first three you said for Omega is true and you know it Tin Man. Namek level do to Gods? Whis has instantaneous reactions even though Omega doesn't have a speed advantage like you're assuming.
I don't know how he'd use it during combat but I'm not gonna deny him the probability when I know he can use it.
How can you call matter manipulation headcannon when others with the ability to make stuff did so too during combat?

lazerbem

May 25 2016, 11:23 PM

Omega doesn't need a style of fighting when he's bristling with natural weaponry. He has spiked knuckles and clawed toes, this does make a difference in the damage he does and we know that he uses this very liberally when he's fighting. If Whis wiggling out of the weaker Vegeta's grip gives him a fighting style, then Syn/Omega making use of his claws and spikes against Goku and Vegeta gives him a very brutal type of his own.

Tinny

May 25 2016, 11:13 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 10:42 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 08:42 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 08:02 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 07:20 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:25 PM

Tinny

May 25 2016, 02:57 PM

Solid Snake

May 25 2016, 04:16 AM

Piccolo strangled Whis? More importantly, you doubting it works or not is honestly not a deterrent to saying Whis is unable to use his power in combat. I mean, he was surprised that Hit too could use time related powers as well, this definitely can imply that Whis too can use time manipulation during combat also.

I'm not doubting the durability that Omega has, but in equal battles, all that's equaled right? Stats and all?

What does Vegeta measuring up to Whis got to do with him getting karate chopped? Slice it however it suits your fancy, but Vegeta had two senses he could've used to not get KO'd via the chop: eye sight and ki sense. The fact he was unaware of Whis position just shows how much more ki control he got to not be actively detected right away.

Shenron. Imply isn't good enough, I need to see what he does in a fight. What's to say he'll even think about that in a fight? And again, Shenron can do anything... Until you ask him to take out someone stronger in which case he can't, once again Piccolo took out someone that could apparently jest grant wishes with his bare hands, are you really gonna tell me he can use his wish granting powers against Vegeta? That seems to be how it is whenever a "hax" technique shows up, Hit tries to use time leap but apparently being strong enough let's you outright ignore it. Why should I think any of Whis's moves are special?

I realize you concede that point but I still feel the need to respond. You're the one that told me that equal stats did not involve equal resources (kai vs Goku) and now you're telling me equal power levels equate to equal stats across the board? Really?

Yeah, and Vegeta is so far behind Whis that he may as well been the Farmer to Whis's Raditz. And frankly no, I don't see how you could have possibly got that from the scene, Whis seemingly teleported behind Vegeta and one shot him because he was faster, not because he was more stealthy. If Whis had actually snuck up behind Him then maybe, but he clearly sped behind him.


Avnet thing to keep in mind is that he's rather slow to react for his power level considering Vegeta grabbed him (compare this with how Goku deals with Burter and Jeice, they never even got close). If anything Omega should also be faster as well with equal power levels.

In character, Whis would likely do it due to the fact if he dies, he won't be able to eat earth's food. If he has to trial and error to at least figure out a strategy to contend with Omega, he'd take that chance. Shenron cannot do anything, killing someone stronger then him and him being unable to wish back the dead more then once and unable to make humanoid artificial humans mortal again, is out of his reach. The powers Whis displayed don't have to function like hax abilities. Omega can use a powerful ki blast and Whis can simply conjure a portal to safely get rid of it, don't need hax for that. But to address that last sentence at the end of your first paragraph, you said "hax" techniques are nullified if the opponent's stronger, okay they're essentially on even grounds. Hit ability works on foes who are equal in strength or weaker.

I was gonna reference one of your old posts but I misread it, that's all.

Whis was not in Vegeta's sight is the point, do you think Vegeta could've knocked Super Saiyan 2 Goku out back in the Buu saga, even though they were evenly matched, while Goku is on guard? I watched the scene last night and Whis was hovering above the water and then already teleported more upward and then Vegeta comes out looking lost and then gets chopped.

Huh? What scene are you referencing?

And again, from what we've seen these moves can be over powered easily just on everything we've seen. And once again, assuming he does use it (let's assume the speculation is correct and he will use it), this only delays the inevitable as Omega is both stronger and faster than Whis, likely by a very good margin considering what they've both shown against stronger and weaker opponents respectively.

Whis sped behind him of course he wasn't in his sight.

Okay, lets go through this frame by frame. Whis disappears, on slow down it looks like he didn't use any special technique, merely disappearing the way dbz fighters always disappear, unless you'd like to tell me that Whis and Piccolo jr. Saga Goku have the same technique. Vegeta comes out of water and looks left then right for Whis (he seems to be searching with his eyes than his ki sensing for some reason), then Whis immediately appears behind him, then for like, one frame we have blue lines behind him, the animation and art is suggesting that Whis got behind Vegeta really fast I assume, rather than say, forming out of thin air. Then Vegeta looks behind him and sees Whis before getting knocked out.
Vegeta found him immediately when Whis appeared and stood still, this was not stealth, it was speed, unless you'd like to explain how Whis apparently flubbed his stealth at the last moment. The only thing suggested he teleported during this fight, is Xenoverse frankly. Which is looking to be made more noncanon than it already is anyway considering Future Trunks in DBS.

I'm gonna need help seeing what Goku and Vegeta during their fight has to do with this. They were even, this is like ssj3 Goku going up against the Farmer. And even if it wasn't, DBS has sneak attack doing tons of damage faaaaaaaaaaaar beyond their power level, but GT had a very similar situation with nothing coming out of it. So assuming I said yes, this would only work against Whis, not for him.



At 1:40 He got caught by someone far far far far far far weaker than him. So in equal stats Omega Shenron has shown to be both more durable (great if he takes a hit), have a better variety of attacks (many many many), ungodly regeneration, a few hax moves, and more speed. The only thing Whis has on him is flexibility and potentially the ability to block attacks, which Omega has as well with his speed advantage. Omega already wins even if this was equal stats, since it's equal power levels, Whis is a complete goner here, his only hope is frankly is playing dead and hoping Omega gets bored.

Okay, tell me though, what how exactly is Whis transporting ki attacks to another dimension hax? It's not like I'm saying Whis wins, but to suggest he'd lose even though we know he can use the powers he shown, is quite ridiculous. How'd you figured Omega's stronger? Does he have any feats or statements that says he physically superior to Whis? And what about speed wise?

Point taken, but Vegeta was taken by surprise still given the way he looked. It's not like he was expecting Whis to be behind him. And I also said he had two ways to find him, didn't say he did or didn't. No, he teleports here personally but in Super, he teleports Goku and Vegeta inside Beerus's room where they get hit by an unrestricted ki blast.

My point is that, regarding Goku vs Vegeta back then, was the fact they was even yet if they lose track or consciously are not in combat mode, they'd go down just easily as Whis did to Vegeta in the movie. Point is, strong or even, pressure point strikes still work if off guard or simply not in a combat mode.

He got caught? What's so good about that? He can escape grapples easily so I don't see the big deal. Only thing I can give Omega is the durability, elements manipulation, hax regen. Whis has matter manipulation (at least on the molecular level if he and Vados are the same anyway), instantaneous reactions, fluent style of fighting, can rewind time, and can conjure portals that warp objects into it.

Let's get off that subject for now, I'm already going forward assuming he does it even though I'm 99.9% sure he won't when he actually gets into a fight with someone he can't one shot with a well placed hair flip. Physically superior I mentioned his durability against someone far stronger, remind me what are Whis's feats against people stronger than him? Speed wise Whis has an anti-feat. Omega is faster because Whis is slow.

And this 100% always forever and ever and never equates to anything but that Whis teleported there or can do something never shown in Dragon Ball (I'm assuming this is separate from suppressing your ki, otherwise I have to question how that's gonna help). How has Whis used this in battle?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but when was this shown outside of DBS? Specifically within Z or GT (since GT seems to at least somewhat follow Z rules). Because in GT a sneak attack attempted resulted in nothing happening, while in DBS a god level opponent can get one shot by an attack that is at best, Ginyu arc levels.

Are you telling me Omega Shenron can't punch and can only hug? Frankly that seems so much of a disadvantage I wonder why you didn't just say that, I guess Whis stomps since he can actually punch and Omega can only hug people. No it's called a punch, and Omega Shenron can use from behind, and knowing Omega Shenron he won't have any hesitations about playing dirty.

And instantaneous reactions?

In what universe is this instant? You may as well say Whis summons the Living Tribunal. If anything this just shows how slow Whis is for his power level, Goku could easily walk circles around Burter and Jeice and even with a two pronged attack they never layed a hand on him, compare with Vegeta who had him in a hold. And what fluent style of fighting? How is it fluent? at this point you may as well say "Whis has a higher power level." Because that entire point is nullified by the fact that he can one shot a man more than ten times more powerful than these guys. I mean seriously just to show what you're essentially saying let me use another example

I guess in equal power level fights Raditz speed blitzes everyone sans Burter. No that's silly right?
and that's because the farmer is a weakling, and so are Goku and Vegeta, Whis's so called fluent style of fighting is only due to his incredible power advantage. It's so absurdly high that a fight between them is honestly gonna be like a fight between Raditz and the Farmer.
I mean, how do you say that Whis has a better fighting style? What has he shown in combat against those who might actually stand a chance? What has he shown period aside from being faster and stronger than beings less than a tenth as powerful as a man he can one shot whenever he wants?
Okay, now how is he gonna win the second time against someone more durable, with a better variety of attacks, a willingness to play dirty, an is faster. This is assuming he even survives the first bout, considering how slow Whis is compared to his power level, Omega Shenron might be able to just speed blitz him and kill him before he even knows what's going on, we already know what namek level attacks do to gods, what's an unexpected attack he didn't see coming from someone just as strong as him gonna do to Whis?
Again, how does he use this in combat? Can you show me how he uses this in combat?
teleporting also lies in the same thing, how does he use it in combat?
Omega can one shot Whis in this event, either with ice or with a simple run behind him and punch him. Whis has nothing substantial in this fight, he has theories, speculation, and headcanon as to how he'll use his noncombat abilities in combat, where for all we know he might not even think to use them in a fight even when they would save his life, or maybe he'll immediately teleported inside his opponent and kill them that way, all of which is speculation.
I'm going by what I've seen of him fighting, and what I've seen is not impressive enough to take down someone who's already arguably a monster in equal stats let alone somewhere where he can bring his completely ridiculous durability to bear.

Whis doesn't have any feats against beings stronger then him. But neither does Omega, barring the one feat you speak of him surviving the Big Bang Kamehameha. If you're talking about Vegeta grappling Whis from behind as the "anti-feat" that doesn't prove anything other then Whis can easily recover and put out a reversal on grapples.

What does the second point try to get at?

Super Saiyan 4 Goku karate chopped Super Baby 2 in the neck, while he was aware of Goku's presence. The chop is here and only here but it doesn't knock him out cold despite being likely 10 times more powerful. I'm certain if Baby lost visual, he'd been KO'd too.

I didn't say Omega can't fight, I said Whis has a legit style to utilize unlike Omega. What can Omega do physically to match Whis's reversal style of fighting? He has no substance at all.

That doesn't disprove it, Vegeta clasped onto him and Whis countered him. Vegeta's attempt didn't amount to anything. Pretty positive Whis meant during exchanges of attacks. C'mon you're being ridiculous with that one, The Living Tribunal isn't related to Dragon Ball. He can summon whatever he pleases in the Dragon Ball universe that extends from earthly means and beyond. So just because he does something "amazing" it's crap because he's strong? Of course it is but you saying this like Whis is going all out, which he isn't, when he's fighting them at a adequate level of power that allows them to grow stronger and view they're weaknesses. He fought his sister (off screen I believe) before, given that they're around the same strength, I'm willing to believe they got a similar style. Only the first three you said for Omega is true and you know it Tin Man. Namek level do to Gods? Whis has instantaneous reactions even though Omega doesn't have a speed advantage like you're assuming.
I don't know how he'd use it during combat but I'm not gonna deny him the probability when I know he can use it.
How can you call matter manipulation headcannon when others with the ability to make stuff did so too during combat?

Vegeta managed to grab Whis, (regardless of how temporary it was) while yelling from behind, how does that do anything but say how slow he is? And that's what I mean by Omega's advantage.

You seem very sure he teleported despite it obviously not being teleportation. Seriously just slow the youtube video to x.25 speed and you'll very clearly see they way they draw it, it's movement, not teleportation. I looked at the scene almost frame by frame and you seemed to completely ignore it. He disappeared like everyone else and reappeared like everyone else, nothing special happened.

If? If? So you don't actually have anything suggesting this applies to GT? Baby Vegeta got hit by a missile he was unaware of and survived, you even said that back when Baby vegeta went up against FnF Freeza. You can be certain all you like, but it wasn't exactly like my being certain convinced you of anything, how should your being convinced of something convince me? Why are you convinced?

You implied that he could only hug and couldn't punch people. And how does Whis have a "reversal" style of fighting? What does that even mean? And once again, Whis did this against people who are the farmer to his raditz.

No, Vegeta came at behind and loudly screamed, and clasped onto Whis. Through out the whole fight he has been dodging their attacks or parrying them. He does this immediately change? He does he not simply stand there and tank all of it? He got caught, plain and simple, unless you'd like to explain to me why Whis suddenly went from dodging everything to tanking everything then back to dodging everything before Vegeta even released his grip. Why the sudden change from and back to dodging? As for how he lowered his power level to something adequate, Goku lowered his to lower than Burter and Jiece and could still keep up with them no? Reflexes are the same and speed can be increased in an instant.
Yes it was off screen.
Am I being called a liar now? Should I just stop posting in this discussion? I may disagree but I hope that I would at least be given the benefit of the doubt that I believe what I'm saying, regardless of if you agree with me or not. I don't appreciate attacks on my character.

Instantaneous reactions are not that however. I don't know what the heck they are but considering Whis's track record...

How come Whis didn't react instantly? Whatever he meant by that, it's obviously not speeding up his reaction time, certainly not enough to deal with people who are as far away from him as the Farmer with a Shotgun was from Raditz. If it was like that he'd never have gotten caught in the first place. He was even surprised, look closely Whis's mouth opens when Vegeta does that, if he had no reaction or even smiled I might get why you think this doesn't count, but he was clearly caught off guard.

Well then how do I look at it if we don't even kno how he uses it?
HOW he uses it, that's the headcanon. How would he use this in combat? This is necessary information because we're pitting characters against characters, not powers against powers. How they use their abilities is everything in a fight.


And seriously Solid Snake, are you really telling me that Raditz's showing against the farmer (If I'm being nice to the two saiyans, the difference is probably of a similar distance, but it's likely farther) means anything in equal stats? Whis is more than ten times more powerful than them at this juncture, him effortlessly taking them on means nothing as to how he'd do against his equal. You may as well say Goku could defeat Whis in equal power levels because he's so fast he can out speed King Chappa in a fight. No, because Chappa was allot weaker, therefore Goku managing to stay behind him and one shot him means nothing as to how he'd do in a fight against someone as powerful as him.