Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)

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Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
Tweet Topic Started: May 20 2016, 08:18 PM (4,817 Views)
+ Steve	Jun 4 2016, 01:07 AM Post #31
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Quote: The Animated Silver Surfer tv show which iirc Darker likes allot (I mean he did recommend it) says hello. That changed quite a bit of stuff. I don't quite get what you mean here? That he liked something that was different from comics? Usually he says most things are terrible if they're not the same as the comics when they don't have to be. Quote: Honestly the way I see it a few things can be changed on a whim (mainly costumes (though it's mostly because I like seeing alternate costumes on heroes and the different way it's interpreted, to a degree, specific storylines so the writers don't get bored of transcribing comics to the big screen). But at the same time there should be an effort to make sure that if you're gonna bring in a known character, you should try to keep the soul of what makes that character translate to the big screen. You don't need to go massively in depth for that though, most of the fans don't. These movies are made to appeal to the majority not the minority of hardcore comic fans. Elements of the original character are all you need Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2 didn't need to be exactly like the comic character to be easily the best villain in that series but then obviously it would be dumb if he was so loosely connected to his origins as to just being "some guy" that found tentacles in an alley and started being bad for no reason. Quote: I mean let's be honest, the final villain in Captain America 3 could have easily been an original character, I don't see the point of having him be a character, especially when it's to the point that few could recognize him beyond googling his name. Heck I'm pretty sure Darker couldn't even tell who that was supposed to be, I know I certainly can't remember which villain he is. Not that he's bad by any means, he just could have easily been created for that film specifically, and making him a specific character restrains future stories. Well I'm pretty sure people would have moaned if they never said it was that guy and then people worked out who it should obviously be but in any case he was a deliberately understated villain, it didn't really matter who he was they just made him someone. Quote: I'd say if you're gonna bring a known character in, you should try to make it so that if the movie going audience happens to pick up a comic with the characters in the movie inside the comic (say a Spider-man comic with the Vulture after seeing Spider-man: Homecoming), they should be fairly readily recognize the character, maybe a few costume changes here and there but in personality and such the same. Generally anyway. Why? Even in comics characters can be quite different in different series written by different people can't they? Batman for instance isn't always the exact same but he'll usually retain the stoic-ness of Batman rather than be like Adam Wests suddenly. Considering James Bond is such a well loved character despite being almost nothing like the original version until Daniel Craig's portrayal I don't see why it really matters. Movies make stories their own, they don't need to be like the source material all that much, most people don't care because the people they're aimed at are casual watchers that don't need in depth accuracy.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Tinny	Jun 4 2016, 01:38 AM Post #32
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Yes. The MCU stories are missing something that makes their changes okay, and to be honest I'm pretty sure I can pinpoint it, to be quite honest I'm not sure quality is a priority on the MCU movies (not that they can't output that, just that it's more despite or regardless of how they're handled than anything), big example for me of this is the Guardians of the Galaxy, an MCU movie with a budget of $232.3 million, which was directed by a guy who wrote the screen play to the scooby-doo movies, Slither (a cult classic that was a bomb at the box office) and Super (A mostly unknown film that got mixed reviews and failed to make back it's own money at the box office, though admittedly that premiered at a film festival rather than theaters in general ). This is not the type of record you give to someone if you want quality and are putting down upwards of 200 million dollars. Not that it's bad, I enjoyed it, but it's pretty clear to me that the people who chose him didn't actually care whether or not the film was any good. Did I say you need to go massively in depth? Keeping the soul of a character doesn't mean you have to spend 80% of a movie psychoanalyzing the character, it means you keep what is special and unique to that character. This one is admittedly anecdotal, but they failed with me, and with Darker, neither of us even recognized the guy and had to be told that, I think by Queen TD? Because I still have no idea who that guy is, I forgot who he was supposed to represent. This guy could have easily been an original character that perhaps makes his way to the comics someday a la Batman Beyond. And I'm not saying they have to make this still images of the page panels either, I am saying that if they're adapting something, I think they should adapt it and keep it recognizable. But you don't need to massively change the character either, the casual viewers won't notice, just the comic fans. I mean for example, the Mandarin, let's be honest, they in no way needed the Mandarin to be like he was revealed to be, he could have easily been a new character entirely, in fact that would have arguably been better as I don't have to have mixed feelings about the guy if he's some original character instead of taking a pretty big villain and reducing him to comic relief. If they're gonna make a character unrecognizable, I don't see why they need to take the name is what I'm thinking. I mean I guess they get comic fans butts in and then tell whatever story they want, but then you get people complaining that they ruined a character, and while it may be a good business move, as a fan, I don't see why they can't make an original character if they're just gonna do their own thing with the villain of the story, outside of suckering people in. It doesn't mean the movie will suck, but it's needlessly getting on fans nerves for what I can tell as very little reason beyond getting an initial ticket price, which I suppose might be all they're going for, but regardless you're gonna have fans feeling betrayed. Edited by Tinny, Jun 4 2016, 01:39 AM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


+ Steve	Jun 4 2016, 02:27 AM Post #33
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Quote: Super (A mostly unknown film that got mixed reviews and failed to make back it's own money at the box office, though admittedly that premiered at a film festival rather than theaters in general ) Irrelevant but that movie is f*ing awesome. "Shut up crime!" Quote: This is not the type of record you give to someone if you want quality and are putting down upwards of 200 million dollars. Not that it's bad, I enjoyed it, but it's pretty clear to me that the people who chose him didn't actually care whether or not the film was any good. I dunno, they wanted a goofy movie and he'd done a few. A director/writer can adapt to the series they're doing work for. Perhaps he's s* at ground breakingly original movies and stories but working from source material(especially as s***ty source material as the GOG comics) changes things a lot. Plus it's not like he'd have had full control over everything. Quote: Did I say you need to go massively in depth? Keeping the soul of a character doesn't mean you have to spend 80% of a movie psychoanalyzing the character, it means you keep what is special and unique to that character. But where is that not being done exactly? The only failures to that I see really are in villains because they barely ever get enough screen time and/or have to share it with other villains. It's kind of impossible to build a well known character from scratch and portray the "soul" of them that's been known by hardcore fans over many many years using only like an hour of movie. If they shove characters in movies and reference a lot of comic exclusive stuff most people watching are going to have no idea what's going on. They have to build the character from scratch and that unavoidably misses out on their history. Quote: This one is admittedly anecdotal, but they failed with me, and with Darker, neither of us even recognized the guy and had to be told that, I think by Queen TD? Because I still have no idea who that guy is, I forgot who he was supposed to represent. This guy could have easily been an original character that perhaps makes his way to the comics someday a la Batman Beyond. Like I said it doesn't really matter who he is, he represents the anger/frustration people have with the heroes and the like. Who he is is just failed fanservice if anything, it doesn't make what he done have less meaning does it? Quote: If they're gonna make a character unrecognizable, I don't see why they need to take the name is what I'm thinking. I mean I guess they get comic fans butts in and then tell whatever story they want, but then you get people complaining that they ruined a character, and while it may be a good business move, as a fan, I don't see why they can't make an original character if they're just gonna do their own thing with the villain of the story, outside of suckering people in. It doesn't mean the movie will suck, but it's needlessly getting on fans nerves for what I can tell as very little reason beyond getting an initial ticket price, which I suppose might be all they're going for, but regardless you're gonna have fans feeling betrayed. Well at the end of the day this is all still loosely based off the comics and not wholly original, they'd have to get the original writers of these comics in to write original story lines for the movies or their tones and such would likely fall flat. Creating original characters and story lines for a series that's already based off source material sounds like a nightmare. Dissatisfying hardcore fans is pretty much unavoidable if you want to appeal to a broader audience. A 2 hour movie can't contend with a massive years long comic arc in terms of detail and such. Hardcore fans need to learn to just take it for what it is, it's pretty much never going to be what you're used to because it's condensed in to a tiny package. Directors can't really interpret what a comic writer was going for exactly and convey that perfectly. (bed time for me now )
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Tinny	Jun 4 2016, 02:51 AM Post #34
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Quote: I dunno, they wanted a goofy movie and he'd done a few. A director/writer can adapt to the series they're doing work for. Perhaps he's s* at ground breakingly original movies and stories but working from source material(especially as sty source material as the GOG comics) changes things a lot. Plus it's not like he'd have had full control over everything. That's the only thing he's done though, the only stuff they had to go on. Like I said the film is fine but it's clear he wasn't chosen for his experience in comedy unless that web series satirizing porn was apparently what they were looking for. Quote: But where is that not being done exactly? The only failures to that I see really are in villains because they barely ever get enough screen time and/or have to share it with other villains. It's kind of impossible to build a well known character from scratch and portray the "soul" of them that's been known by hardcore fans over many many years using only like an hour of movie. If they shove characters in movies and reference a lot of comic exclusive stuff most people watching are going to have no idea what's going on. They have to build the character from scratch and that unavoidably misses out on their history. By what standard? It's not like you need upwards of 6 20 minute episodes to get a similar thing going and establish characters, and that would be... a two hour movie. They have time and can utilize it differently from a tv show that has to tell for the most part 20 minute contained stories. Deadpool says hello, that movie portrayed him pretty faithfully, what's stopping the others? That's obviously not necessary. Again, what did Deadpool reference in the movie that outright took away from the film if you weren't aware? What about Spider-man 1 and 2? Quote: Like I said it doesn't really matter who he is, he represents the anger/frustration people have with the heroes and the like. Who he is is just failed fanservice if anything, it doesn't make what he done have less meaning does it? Yes. He could have been a brilliant original character that perfectly represented the anger people had at Tony Stark and the Avengers. Now he's mixed between a failed representation and a good character. There's really nothing that could have been lost from making him an original character, it was completely needless, and second do either of us know who he is? Because you haven't told me, and I don't know who he's portraying, just that it was a comic book villain and Darker hated how they ruined him to the point where he was unrecognizable. He's not a bad villain, but he's being held down by who he's supposed to be portraying. Quote: Well at the end of the day this is all still loosely based off the comics and not wholly original, they'd have to get the original writers of these comics in to write original story lines for the movies or their tones and such would likely fall flat. Creating original characters and story lines for a series that's already based off source material sounds like a nightmare. Dissatisfying hardcore fans is pretty much unavoidable if you want to appeal to a broader audience. A 2 hour movie can't contend with a massive years long comic arc in terms of detail and such. Hardcore fans need to learn to just take it for what it is, it's pretty much never going to be what you're used to because it's condensed in to a tiny package. Directors can't really interpret what a comic writer was going for exactly and convey that perfectly. me at 6:28 Honestly the way I see it a few things can be changed on a whim (mainly costumes (though it's mostly because I like seeing alternate costumes on heroes and the different way it's interpreted, to a degree, specific storylines so the writers don't get bored of transcribing comics to the big screen). That's for the first paragraph. How? They're basically doing it already with people like the Mandarin and... I think it was Baron Zemo but I'm honestly not sure without looking it up? I said in my initial post on this that I was good with original storylines because otherwise why do you have writers, so you couldn't possibly be talking to me when you said that, but no one else has posted either, so who are you talking to? I'm saying if they're gonna bring in a character, make sure that character is recognizable to the comic book fans, and before you go forgetting what I said earlier, I mean in personality, in what they are overall, I don't need Vulture in a green costume anymore than I need Live Action Spider-man with moving eyes. And? Once again, who are you talking to? Who's arguments are you addressing? I'm not asking for every comic book movie to be Sin City, and I have no blinking clue where you got the idea that I was. Edited by Tinny*, Jun 4 2016, 03:22 AM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


lazerbem	Jun 4 2016, 04:00 AM Post #35
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Vulture doesn't need the green costume, not light green anyway. He's gone red and black and looked fine He's gone really dark green with no wings and still looked fine(this was with the gravity powers upgrade, that could let him equalize things against Iron Man) But making him look like...idk, Falcon, could easily backfire, unless they go Web of Shadows Vulture, which was a good design, actually In any case, Vulture doing youth sucking is something that I'd prefer not done because it was probably one of the worst time periods with him. He's far better just being a bitter old guy who believes in survival of the fittest over everything and feels entitled to preying on the weak if he has the ability to do so than just being a glorified life sucker who's desperate to keep his vitality. It undermines his dangerous old guy factor. Plus, his wrinkliness makes him more vulture-like, imo. If they're going to give Vulture other powers, it should be his gravitional powers, those just seem like a natural extension of his flight. Edited by lazerbem, Jun 4 2016, 04:00 AM.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Darker	Jul 27 2016, 01:05 PM Post #36
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,357 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Yup, it's Vulture. http://collider.com/spider-man-homecoming-vulture-jon-watts-interview/ Can't say I'm not excited for this.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


Darker	Dec 7 2016, 10:05 PM Post #37
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,357 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	It's heeeere!
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ QueenTD	Dec 7 2016, 10:41 PM Post #38
My Dear Melancholy, Posts: 4,480 Group: Elite Member Member #11,589 Joined: August 8, 2014 Gender Female Country United States	"What the hell is that" "Its my suit" Been dying for that line since I was 4
	Spoiler: click to toggle GinyuTokusentai You seem nice. Kinda innocent, just a sweet girl Emmeth It seems like you really care about people and you're always polite and worried you'll offend anyone. It's cute. My Step Son peep love u xoxo


+ Steve	Dec 7 2016, 10:48 PM Post #39
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	This is the one movie I hope doesn't have too many quips, hopefully they keep it Spidey-like and not half-the-run-time-like. Not that we saw much but looks cool so far. More MCU characters need cool suits.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Darker	Dec 7 2016, 10:50 PM Post #40
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,357 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	Steve Dec 7 2016, 10:48 PM More MCU characters need cool suits. They ALL have cool suits.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


+ Steve	Dec 7 2016, 11:18 PM Post #41
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Well Hawkeye sure doesn't, Falcon just has his wings, Scarlet Witch just seems to wear whatever, Thor's is kind of boring, Black Widow might as well just be naked, Bucky doesn't have one any more and I can't remember others at the moment. Some more colourful or unique designs wouldn't hurt, especially the ones that are just some leather. I wonder if Disney will be dumb enough to go for the cursed option of having multiple villains in a Spider-man movie? Let's hope not...
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Darker	Dec 7 2016, 11:27 PM Post #42
The Lord of the Dark Posts: 15,357 Group: Member Member #11,968 Joined: January 7, 2015 Gender Male Country Spain	You're wondering if Disney's dumb? Of course they are. Steve Dec 7 2016, 11:18 PM Well Hawkeye sure doesn't, No one cares about Hawkeye though. He would be a little cooler if he got his witty sense of humor and his old purple costume back. Quote: Falcon just has his wings, Does the armor, glasses and gauntlets mean nothing to you? I don't see anyone else wearing those. Quote: Scarlet Witch just seems to wear whatever, She's a goth, let her be with her sense of style. But it's either this modern look or her original look, and she's got nothing else to wear. Quote: Thor's is kind of boring, He just lacks the helmet. Quote: Black Widow might as well just be naked, Well no one cares about her either. Quote: Bucky doesn't have one any more and I can't remember others at the moment. What do you mean he doesn't have one anymore? Quote: Some more colourful or unique designs wouldn't hurt, especially the ones that are just some leather. Yeah, they need more armor, but then again these are comic book movies, it's mostly spandex. REALLY durable spandex. And they're trying to be kinda gritty, so while they're having a lot of fun with these interpretations of classic characters, they still like these characters wearing black and dark costumes.
	Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power.


Zoom	Dec 8 2016, 05:36 AM Post #43
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Quote: Like I don't want Tony to basically create all his gadgets for him, kid should be a genius on his own. It'd be lame if Tony was essentially Q from James Bond. Of course, Stark technology should definitely feature in Spidey's arsenal. In Civil War, they gave Peter Parker the credit. Quote: I'm with you, Billa. I loved Raimi's trilogy. Then again I was like 8 when I first watched the first one, so I'm a bit biased towards those movies. Trilogy or just the two movies? Care to explain why the third movie? Poor cast for Eddie Brock/Venom = Topher Grace is terrible! among other things.



SpeedoTrunks	Dec 8 2016, 11:18 AM Post #44
Posts: 908 Group: Member Member #9,238 Joined: March 22, 2013 Gender Not Specified	Zoom Dec 8 2016, 05:36 AM Quote: I'm with you, Billa. I loved Raimi's trilogy. Then again I was like 8 when I first watched the first one, so I'm a bit biased towards those movies. Trilogy or just the two movies? Care to explain why the third movie? Poor cast for Eddie Brock/Venom = Topher Grace is terrible! among other things. The best Spider-man movie so far is Raimi's Spider-man 2. 1 is "OK" and has good parts, but has many...MANY mess-ups in it, that once you've seen them, you can't un-see. and Spider-man 3 is a horrible mess of a movie that has WAAAAY to much going on. Again 1 or 2 good bits, (the symbiot in the bell tower for example), but over all, total garbage.



+ QueenTD	Dec 8 2016, 04:01 PM Post #45
My Dear Melancholy, Posts: 4,480 Group: Elite Member Member #11,589 Joined: August 8, 2014 Gender Female Country United States	Steve Dec 7 2016, 10:48 PM This is the one movie I hope doesn't have too many quips, hopefully they keep it Spidey-like and not half-the-run-time-like. Not that we saw much but looks cool so far. More MCU characters need cool suits. Define...Spidey like. Just curious cause that might be a different interpretation
	Spoiler: click to toggle GinyuTokusentai You seem nice. Kinda innocent, just a sweet girl Emmeth It seems like you really care about people and you're always polite and worried you'll offend anyone. It's cute. My Step Son peep love u xoxo


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