SSJ4 Goku SD (Surpassed limits) Vs Dragonball Super

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SSJ4 Goku SD (Surpassed limits) Vs Dragonball Super
Tweet Topic Started: May 5 2016, 01:18 PM (2,987 Views)
+ Pyrus	May 5 2016, 09:44 PM Post #16
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	He wipes everyone in Super out with a single x10 Kamehameha. Then wipes his a*** in super speed with Whis' staff.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Griffzilla	May 5 2016, 11:30 PM Post #17
Posts: 730 Group: Member Member #11,562 Joined: July 29, 2014 Gender Male	People still use the 6-10-15 scale? Why?? I'll admit the scaling in Super is a little... odd but not impossible to make sense of. Rageta probably got a huge boost when he fought Beerus. People want to downplay Beerus bc of that 10% line but I think he got massively op. The only other real rage boost we got was Gohan, did he not get massively stronger? Why can't Vegeta? Back on topic. I think Super is >>>> GT. They have feats and statements that put them way higher. Also, I don't see why Toriyama and Toei would make a series that carries on DBZ and be weaker than another product. In Dragon Ball, everything needs to be more powerful than it was. That's kind of the whole point. Imo, ssjg Goku (being the weakest of the god tier characters) is stronger than anything in GT. Except for maybe, maybe ssj4 Gogeta. Beerus and Champa had to stop fighting or both of their universes would be destroyed. No one in GT showed that kind of power.
	"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean


Tinny	May 5 2016, 11:37 PM Post #18
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	No no no, because regardless of how strong Vegeta got, he's still ten percent. Ssjg is presumably just as strong if not outright stronger right? And by U6 the saiyans are both at minimum comparable to ssjg Goku. And then Goku comes in kaioken times ten and is still weaker, presumably far weaker. Forget the 61015 scale, it doesn't matter what placement of power is used, ssjgssjkkx10 doesn't make sense in either. Either Beerus lied for absolutely no reason, or power levels are actually bulls*** now and it's useless to compare them to anything because there is no placements of power that works in DBS.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


lazerbem	May 5 2016, 11:52 PM Post #19
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	I want to note that even if for some reason, Super Goku has higher striking strength, it doesn't mean insta-win. GT Goku could easily just grab onto him and crush him in a bear hug if his lifting strength is so much greater. Even assuming that Super characters hit a lot harder than they lift, that still leaves them very open to just being grabbed. What happens if their opponent just grabs their arms and holds them in place?
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Griffzilla	May 6 2016, 12:04 AM Post #20
Posts: 730 Group: Member Member #11,562 Joined: July 29, 2014 Gender Male	Well 10% Beerus doesn't have to be equivalent to Rageta. He could have used 10% of his power to maintain his edge. For all we know, Rageta could have been only 5% of Beerus' power. Maybe lower. Barely using his power and still twice as strong as someone that is much stronger than Ultimate Gohan, maybe even Vegetto. Whis' Castle metaphor also shows just how out matched they are, even at ssjb, compared to the gods. If Goku using kkx10 is still a little weaker than Beerus. I don't have issue with Beerus being 11x ssjb Goku. Beerus was a lot stronger than ssjg Goku and we don't really know how much stronger ssjb is than ssjg. It could be marginal at best. I really don't think we have seen close to Beerus' max yet. However, I will not disagree with you about the scaling being off.
	"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean


Griffzilla	May 6 2016, 12:06 AM Post #21
Posts: 730 Group: Member Member #11,562 Joined: July 29, 2014 Gender Male	lazerbem May 5 2016, 11:52 PM I want to note that even if for some reason, Super Goku has higher striking strength, it doesn't mean insta-win. GT Goku could easily just grab onto him and crush him in a bear hug if his lifting strength is so much greater. Even assuming that Super characters hit a lot harder than they lift, that still leaves them very open to just being grabbed. What happens if their opponent just grabs their arms and holds them in place? Well, Ginyu was physically stronger than Goku but Goku could have broken the hold with kk. I don't see why ssjb Goku couldn't do the same here.
	"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean


lazerbem	May 6 2016, 12:11 AM Post #22
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Griffzilla May 6 2016, 12:06 AM lazerbem May 5 2016, 11:52 PM I want to note that even if for some reason, Super Goku has higher striking strength, it doesn't mean insta-win. GT Goku could easily just grab onto him and crush him in a bear hug if his lifting strength is so much greater. Even assuming that Super characters hit a lot harder than they lift, that still leaves them very open to just being grabbed. What happens if their opponent just grabs their arms and holds them in place? Well, Ginyu was physically stronger than Goku but Goku could have broken the hold with kk. I don't see why ssjb Goku couldn't do the same here. Because the gap of strength GT Goku has on Super Goku is far larger than just a Kaioken x10 can make up, assuming the boost is linear Edited by lazerbem, May 6 2016, 12:12 AM.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


Griffzilla	May 6 2016, 12:17 AM Post #23
Posts: 730 Group: Member Member #11,562 Joined: July 29, 2014 Gender Male	lazerbem May 6 2016, 12:11 AM Griffzilla May 6 2016, 12:06 AM lazerbem May 5 2016, 11:52 PM I want to note that even if for some reason, Super Goku has higher striking strength, it doesn't mean insta-win. GT Goku could easily just grab onto him and crush him in a bear hug if his lifting strength is so much greater. Even assuming that Super characters hit a lot harder than they lift, that still leaves them very open to just being grabbed. What happens if their opponent just grabs their arms and holds them in place? Well, Ginyu was physically stronger than Goku but Goku could have broken the hold with kk. I don't see why ssjb Goku couldn't do the same here. Because the gap of strength GT Goku has on Super Goku is far larger than just a Kaioken x10 can make up, assuming the boost is linear True that. Maybe since Goku held kkx10 for a while maybe he could boost it to 20 or higher if he only needed it for a few seconds. Key word being Maybe. Could ssjb Goku use IT to get out of the hold? Also, I feel as if Vegeta were to have gone ssjb he would have no issues lifting Mageta. So it would be hard to judge Super's physical strength without seeing them go all out like Goku did lifitng that city. But bro, Goku had mma gloves. I bet he has a mean guard. He could sub ssj4 Goku when hes trying to hold him down.
	"I hit the booth and I just went super saiyan!" - Big Sean


Tinny	May 6 2016, 12:30 AM Post #24
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Griffzilla May 6 2016, 12:04 AM Well 10% Beerus doesn't have to be equivalent to Rageta. He could have used 10% of his power to maintain his edge. For all we know, Rageta could have been only 5% of Beerus' power. Maybe lower. Barely using his power and still twice as strong as someone that is much stronger than Ultimate Gohan, maybe even Vegetto. Whis' Castle metaphor also shows just how out matched they are, even at ssjb, compared to the gods. If Goku using kkx10 is still a little weaker than Beerus. I don't have issue with Beerus being 11x ssjb Goku. Beerus was a lot stronger than ssjg Goku and we don't really know how much stronger ssjb is than ssjg. It could be marginal at best. I really don't think we have seen close to Beerus' max yet. However, I will not disagree with you about the scaling being off. The "edge" of getting wailed on completely doesn't seem that large to me and even if it was do you really think ssjg is a 6-9% from there? Oh yes, the castle metaphor, unfortunately that 10% line still exists. The problem is not resolved in the least by that. Even then it's still an extremely vague statement that can be taken any number of ways just like everything else about power and DBS. It gets even worse if you use the movies instead that clearly placed Goku as close. That assumes there's a scale at all, which I doubt. The scaling isn't simply off is completely broken to the point of uselessness. I mean could Magetta defeat Buuhan? We don't actually know that, for all we know we might be weaker. He might one shot. We don't know because Vegeta might be hiding bank and was for most of it... But then isn't his base at ssjg level? Why is he having trouble in any way? What about Frost? Is he fnf tier? Buu saga tier? Weaker than that? Would he one shot Golden Freeza? We don't know. GT's power scaling is off (Super 17), DBS is completely broken, and had been done so violently and with a lack of maintenance. We don't even know how strong Piccolo is. Is he God tier or not? We don't know. We don't know a single thing about their placement in power, all we know is this. Beerus is strong. How strong? I dunno. Are they gonna surpass him soon? I dunno. Are they1% or 90%? I dunno. But he's stronger. Edited by Tinny, May 6 2016, 03:25 AM.
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lazerbem	May 6 2016, 12:38 AM Post #25
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	The castle metaphor is just that, a metaphor. Remember when Freeza said that the Z-fighters may as well be ants fighting a dinosaur?
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


+ Solid Snake	May 6 2016, 12:57 AM Post #26
滅Are you frightened? Posts: 8,961 Group: Elite Member Member #6,739 Joined: September 11, 2011 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire What Browser do you use? Kept you waiting huh? Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach	Castle = Beerus . . . . = SSJBKK times 10 Goku . = SSJB Saiyans . = U6 arc fighters high tiers . = Golden Frieza . = SSJB RoF arc . . = U6 arc fighters low tiers Trees = SSJG = Saiyans post training . . . . . . 10% . . ? Rageta? = SSJ3 Vegito/Gogeta (potentially) . . Buu arc high tiers That scale is easy to work with.
	Shinnozou tomete kureru! ~ Evil Ryu SSJG and SSJ4 Goku Sig SUPER THANKS CELL Dragon Ball: Ultimate Road Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8434874/1/#new Naruto and Goku's Adventure Story http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8435708/1/#new


* Yu Narukami	May 6 2016, 01:11 AM Post #27
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Beerus had to use 10% destroy Vegeta, and considering that the highest amp we've seen in the series is 3.5x(?) with the Makankosappo, Vegeta might've been at 1-2%. Also, consider the fact that everyone had to believe that Goku was pushing Beerus close to his full power. Even if it was 50%, Goku and the others would have to be total fools to think that was the case if Goku was anywhere near what Beerus showed at '10%'. For things to make sense, SSG would have to be over 10% at the very least, and SSGSS is stronger than SSG. SSGSS Goku > SSG Goku > Beerus (10%) > Rageta Yet Kaioken x 10 SSGSS still can't reach Beerus.



Tinny	May 6 2016, 01:33 AM Post #28
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	Solid Snake May 6 2016, 12:57 AM Castle = Beerus . . . . = SSJBKK times 10 Goku . = SSJB Saiyans . = U6 arc fighters high tiers . = Golden Frieza . = SSJB RoF arc . . = U6 arc fighters low tiers Trees = SSJG = Saiyans post training . . . . . . 10% . . ? Rageta? = SSJ3 Vegito/Gogeta (potentially) . . Buu arc high tiers That scale is easy to work with. So basically kaioken didn't multiply your abilities by ten? Or is ssjgssj less than ten percent of Beerus's power? I really doubt Rageta is comparable to ssjgssj. Your scale makes absolutely no sense with what we're shown. Second how do you know those fighters are there and not outright buu high tiers? How do you know Piccolo is god tier and not that Frost is just weaker by the time they face each other? How do you know any of the fighters are where your say they are And again, is Goku is even 11%, then he should have outright gotten past Beerus and as you imply he's still quite far away, what is kkx10 really a x1.1 multiplier? They're only "easy to work with" if you cherry pick info. Edited by Tinny, May 6 2016, 01:34 AM.
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EMIYA	May 6 2016, 01:43 AM Post #29
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Considering that the whole 6/10/15 business was something Toriyama himself stated, if this is no longer the case, then once again Toriyama has utterly **ed up his own series. Like, damn, we literally can't take anything this guy says seriously. The guy will literally sprout BS from his butt and personally wipe it on his fanbase with a s* eating grin on his face won't he? Now to be fair, the whole KK Business is currently an anime exclusive point, so what happens later down in the manga may not do this and may follow that format of 6/10/15. Unfortunately that still keeps the whole 1,000 ton business.



+ Pyrus	May 6 2016, 01:56 AM Post #30
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	If I can't make sense of Super's power structure, I can't very well compare it to GT one way or the other. Though I can make a guess.
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