Z-Sword Gohan vs Vegeta

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Z-Sword Gohan vs Vegeta
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 26 2016, 12:42 AM (4,819 Views)
~~gokussj1000~~	May 7 2016, 08:39 AM Post #61
Posts: 422 Group: Suspended Member #12,740 Joined: November 4, 2015 Gender Male Country Australia Favourite Anime dragonball Favourite Manga same as anime	Vegeta



Zoom	May 15 2016, 08:53 AM Post #62
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	@Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong!



* Yu Narukami	May 15 2016, 09:13 AM Post #63
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 08:53 AM @Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong! Elder Kaioshin is telling Kaioshin that he's wrong about Gohan's increase using the sword being the 'power' of the sword, not the fact that Gohan would be a lot stronger if he transformed.



Zoom	May 15 2016, 09:30 AM Post #64
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 09:13 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 08:53 AM @Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong! Elder Kaioshin is telling Kaioshin that he's wrong about Gohan's increase using the sword being the 'power' of the sword, not the fact that Gohan would be a lot stronger if he transformed. It's obvious you guys don't have even the Viz manga, because if you did you could turn back the page and see the dialogue between Kibito and east Kaioshin. I posted the Japanese, you guys complain, now i've posted the Viz, you make excuses. You asked for Old Kaioshin dismissing the Z-Sword training, and if you have the manga reading the entire volume the evidence is pretty clear.



* Yu Narukami	May 15 2016, 12:41 PM Post #65
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 09:30 AM Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 09:13 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 08:53 AM @Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong! Elder Kaioshin is telling Kaioshin that he's wrong about Gohan's increase using the sword being the 'power' of the sword, not the fact that Gohan would be a lot stronger if he transformed. It's obvious you guys don't have even the Viz manga, because if you did you could turn back the page and see the dialogue between Kibito and east Kaioshin. I posted the Japanese, you guys complain, now i've posted the Viz, you make excuses. You asked for Old Kaioshin dismissing the Z-Sword training, and if you have the manga reading the entire volume the evidence is pretty clear. No, why would Elder Kaioshin be talking about Gohan's strength? He just came out of the Z-sword, yet he knows that Gohan's a Saiyan, he can transform into a Super Saiyan and that training with the Z-sword didn't help him increase his power at all? That would require him listening from the Z-sword and being able to sense from the Z-sword, two abilities that he obviously doesn't have, as he talks about Gohan's power generally instead of giving any specifics.



Zoom	May 16 2016, 12:45 AM Post #66
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 12:41 PM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 09:30 AM Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 09:13 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 08:53 AM @Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong! Elder Kaioshin is telling Kaioshin that he's wrong about Gohan's increase using the sword being the 'power' of the sword, not the fact that Gohan would be a lot stronger if he transformed. It's obvious you guys don't have even the Viz manga, because if you did you could turn back the page and see the dialogue between Kibito and east Kaioshin. I posted the Japanese, you guys complain, now i've posted the Viz, you make excuses. You asked for Old Kaioshin dismissing the Z-Sword training, and if you have the manga reading the entire volume the evidence is pretty clear. No, why would Elder Kaioshin be talking about Gohan's strength? He just came out of the Z-sword, yet he knows that Gohan's a Saiyan, he can transform into a Super Saiyan and that training with the Z-sword didn't help him increase his power at all? That would require him listening from the Z-sword and being able to sense from the Z-sword, two abilities that he obviously doesn't have, as he talks about Gohan's power generally instead of giving any specifics. I don't know what you want. Do you want me to travel to Japan and find Mr Toriyama and pay him money and ask him and post it on skype so the world can see? 1. Was the real training the Z-sword or Old Kaioshin abilities? 2. Did swinging the sword increase Gohan's ki/chi and by how much? 3. Was Gotenks Post-RoSat 10x or 50x stronger than Gotenks Pre-RoSat? 4. Was Gohan a Ssj1 or Ssj2 against Dabura? 5. Was Frieza stronger than base saiya-jins? I posted earlier before Japanese scans of the original manga, and your not happy and complain and say "oh we don't understand Japanese, it's usually good to provide a summary of what they are saying", so then i waited for someone to post the Viz scans, but no one does, so i scan my own Viz manga and post it and the evidence matches up with what the Japanese manga says. You yourself even asked specifically "did Old Kaioshin say the sword was not real training?" The Japanese says "that's not training" and the Viz says "you're wrong!". and here after all that you make excuses again. If you don't have the manga, just say so and ask "hey SSj4 Gotenks, can you post three pages before the scan you posted so i can read what they are talking about?" i will either post it here or in PM. And the three pages before this will show Kibito saying "oh no... this can't be... who ever master the sword is legendary and unrivalled, it's in legend" where Gohan himself said maybe the z-sword is overrated." Even Mr. Hashbrown agrees the sword swinging isn't real training so he's not even going to attempt to. Edited by Zoom, May 16 2016, 12:46 AM.



* Yu Narukami	May 16 2016, 07:43 AM Post #67
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	SSj4 Gotenks May 16 2016, 12:45 AM Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 12:41 PM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 09:30 AM Nagito Komaeda May 15 2016, 09:13 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 15 2016, 08:53 AM @Nagito Komaeda East Kaioshin: Yes.. if you gain so much strength, you'll be be even greater once you turn super saiyan. Old Kaioshin: You're wrong! Elder Kaioshin is telling Kaioshin that he's wrong about Gohan's increase using the sword being the 'power' of the sword, not the fact that Gohan would be a lot stronger if he transformed. It's obvious you guys don't have even the Viz manga, because if you did you could turn back the page and see the dialogue between Kibito and east Kaioshin. I posted the Japanese, you guys complain, now i've posted the Viz, you make excuses. You asked for Old Kaioshin dismissing the Z-Sword training, and if you have the manga reading the entire volume the evidence is pretty clear. No, why would Elder Kaioshin be talking about Gohan's strength? He just came out of the Z-sword, yet he knows that Gohan's a Saiyan, he can transform into a Super Saiyan and that training with the Z-sword didn't help him increase his power at all? That would require him listening from the Z-sword and being able to sense from the Z-sword, two abilities that he obviously doesn't have, as he talks about Gohan's power generally instead of giving any specifics. I don't know what you want. Do you want me to travel to Japan and find Mr Toriyama and pay him money and ask him and post it on skype so the world can see? 1. Was the real training the Z-sword or Old Kaioshin abilities? 2. Did swinging the sword increase Gohan's ki/chi and by how much? 3. Was Gotenks Post-RoSat 10x or 50x stronger than Gotenks Pre-RoSat? 4. Was Gohan a Ssj1 or Ssj2 against Dabura? 5. Was Frieza stronger than base saiya-jins? I posted earlier before Japanese scans of the original manga, and your not happy and complain and say "oh we don't understand Japanese, it's usually good to provide a summary of what they are saying", so then i waited for someone to post the Viz scans, but no one does, so i scan my own Viz manga and post it and the evidence matches up with what the Japanese manga says. You yourself even asked specifically "did Old Kaioshin say the sword was not real training?" The Japanese says "that's not training" and the Viz says "you're wrong!". and here after all that you make excuses again. If you don't have the manga, just say so and ask "hey SSj4 Gotenks, can you post three pages before the scan you posted so i can read what they are talking about?" i will either post it here or in PM. And the three pages before this will show Kibito saying "oh no... this can't be... who ever master the sword is legendary and unrivalled, it's in legend" where Gohan himself said maybe the z-sword is overrated." Even Mr. Hashbrown agrees the sword swinging isn't real training so he's not even going to attempt to. Look at the previous statements. Is Elder Kaioshin going to claim that Kaioshin's wrong about the sword training increasing Gohan's strength, something that requires him to know how strong Gohan was before starting to train with it, or is he talking about the Sword Training not being the true 'power' of the sword, when he knows that his own potential unlocking ability is?



Zoom	May 16 2016, 10:00 AM Post #68
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	There's no hope for you, peace.



Billa	May 16 2016, 02:00 PM Post #69
Thala na Gethu! Posts: 4,218 Group: Member Member #7,273 Joined: February 3, 2012 Favourite Anime Nothin What Browser do you use? Nothin Favourite Manga Nothin	I have Post Z-Sword Gohan = Cell Games Kid Gohan at best. Or somewhat equal to SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta. Thats being generous No amount of swinging heavy a*** sword (which ironically sealed greatest troller Kaioshin in history) & repeatedly hyped by Supreme Kai, another troller who keeps hyping trash-level Pui Pui, Yakon, Dabura, then Babidi, Boo finally Z-sword Gohan. Outta all those 6 instances, Supreme Kai was right for ONCE only about Boo. And dat says alot about his "statements". Needless to say, I dont buy his point of Gohan having remarkable or tremendous leap in power post Z swors training At least with Old Kai's potential unlock, it was evident Gohan's limit was pushed "beyond" normal treshold which should've been his SSJ2 self I think Veggie wins after high difficulty



EMIYA	May 16 2016, 02:45 PM Post #70
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Quote: There's no hope for you, peace. If you can't bother to write a legit response to a post, don't bother responding at all. --- --- Goku: If only Goku and Gohan were still alive, I could've managed something. PIccolo: No, it wouldn't have mattered how many of you went at Majin Boo, he wasn't at that level. AND Kaioshin: Amazing, Gohan's power really has gone up! If he transforms into a Super Saiyan, his power will increase even further. Goku: But is he stronger than Majin Boo...I wonder? Seriously, why is it so hard for some of you people to just see Gohan as being stronger than any of the SSj2 and getting up to Majin Boo? That's pretty much what the context of the statements are saying. Gohan is strong now, he's made a huge jump in power. But this may not be enough and considering how illogical Boo's ki has been, its probably no wonder that Goku may be a bit uncertain on the whole thing. Goku has always been a blunt guy. He's point blank told Vegeta and Piccolo that when they stand no chance, they stand no chance. Why doesn't Goku just say this about Gohan. Why not just say... "No Kaioshin, Gohan still doesn't have enough power to beat Boo." Instead of this uncertainty. Because it sounds to me that you guys don't want Gohan stronger than Vegeta because of personal preference and not what the actual statements are saying.



Saberoph	May 16 2016, 03:42 PM Post #71
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I usually place Post Zeta Sword Gohan between Gray and Fat Boo. My biggest issue with saying either Kakarrot was being nice or not giving a straight answer about Gohan's power is that it's in his character to be blunt about someone's power, to say he's all of a sudden not being blunt to spare his feelings takes him out of character, but when you take someone out of character for an argument, it's no longer the same argument nor is it the same character anymore...it's that person's version of that character, not the original source material version of that character. Kakarrot wonders if Gohan can beat Fat Boo or not, which means Gohan is close enough to his power that he can't come to a conclusion until he saw it in action. Heck, he just fought Fat Boo so he would know where Gohan stands. I find the argument that he's just talking about arm strength or that he's sparring his feeling to be a very weak argument. This is someone who used to train with weighted clothing, and also trained with them in 10x gravity, then trained up to 100x gravity, also trained in a seemingly endless room with 10x gravity, and trained with arm weights before returning to Earth, and heavier gravity works like extra weights around the body, so he would know more than anyone else and if it was just arm strength, then he would've specifically said so.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


KidBuu55	May 16 2016, 04:02 PM Post #72
Posts: 665 Group: Probation Member #13,002 Joined: March 24, 2016 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	SSj4 Gotenks May 2 2016, 12:12 AM Quote: As for blaming Toriyama, no. It's your interpretation that causes Kaioshin, Goku and Gohan to be unreliable. No it's not... it's your nitpicking that makes me think you're a hypocrite, you and Dark Matter. I actually brought forward scans of the entire dialogue, and that's just how Toriyama wrote it WORD for WORD. Maybe you should go out and buy a copy of the manga, then you could read the entire arc instead of just using Herms and saying this part here shows Gohan said this, blah... "oh yes, they are confidant in Gohan's new powers" Here's a food for thought. What are the requirements for becoming strong? There are physical limits to the strength of the body itself, so in order to overcome that barrier, it’s necessary to increase your “ki”. Normally, the more you increase your ki, the harder it is to control, so ki control is also important. ki is made up of three components: Genki (元気; lit. "Energy"), Yūki (勇気; lit. "Courage") and Shōki (正気; lit. ^ you have not provided any evidence to counter Gohan saying he only increased in arm strength or provided any scans throughout the entire 42 volumes to support your claim. Quote: Toriyama planned for Boo to split and get immensely stronger, so it was obvious at the time that Post Z-Sword Gohan wouldn't be strong enough to fight the new Boo. What's your excuse for the fact that Gohan undoubtedly got stronger in some regard? What's the point in increasing his arm strength if he's going to get his potential unlocked shortly afterwards? Yeah. If you have to try and throw the author under the bus in order for your argument to hold water, it says more about your argument than anything else. Oh s*.... the amount of lies you tell, that's funny. Even though Toriyama said so himself in interviews that he doesn't plan ahead and also he forgets. DEBUNKED!!! Quote: You see, your entire argument, if you can call it that, revolves around treating all the characters and the mangaka himself as idiots. Instead of utilizing the statements given in the manga, instead of utilizing the intelligence of the characters. You are using your own head canon and that's why argument has failed the entire way through. That made laugh. Too bad April fools was over a month ago. I actually brought forward evidence of actual manga panels where you nitpick and choose what quotes you want to add and include your head canon as an explanation to why Kaioshin said this or why Gohan said that as oppose to what actually what was said by the characters. And the best evidence you brought forward was Goku just saying "I wonder"... You guys are geniuses. Wait, let me edit that, "I wonder" is a soundproof evidence even though the very next panel you're introduced to new guy in Old Kaioshin that questions what the hell you're doing previously. Old Kai. I would like to say get a clue, but instead get a manga! Even Mr Hansbrown is full aware that the Gohan we are debating gained his so-called powers during the time he was swinging the sword. Mr Hashbrown Why do you keep bringing up the ritual? That raised his power past Super Boo. We're talking about Gohan's gains with the sword in relation to Fat Boo. The have no relation to each other. So if he understood that, then why can't you? Now, once you understood that, we can debate on how is it possible for someone to gain so much just by swinging a heavy sword. And since throughout the 42 volumes there was never a relationship between arm strength and ki/chi. Quote: What the f* does that have to do with anything? Why use disgusting words? Is it the time of the month for you where you have your period? Before I get banned for calling you guys hypocrites, I just want to make things clear. Nagito Komaeda "Even if there is a single piece of evidence that supports something, if there is more evidence supporting the opposite you should disregard it" Goku clearly said Kid Buu could destroy the entire universe, but you could dismiss it because other evidence doesn't support it. You guys are on board with that, but here you add your excuses such as "Nagito Komaeda" claiming Toriyama was planning ahead. Bollocks Quote: Boo got stronger when he split? My whole world has been a lie. What are you on about? Evil Buu was form when fat Buu got angry and split and the pure evil absorbed or ate the good Buu and became Evil Buu during when Gohan was training with Old Kaioshin. Reading this whole topic, I agree. They don't use the panels, they don't watch the show or read the manga - they cherrypicked specific comments and tried to place context around them.



Billa	May 16 2016, 04:06 PM Post #73
Thala na Gethu! Posts: 4,218 Group: Member Member #7,273 Joined: February 3, 2012 Favourite Anime Nothin What Browser do you use? Nothin Favourite Manga Nothin	Goku fought Boo who was trolling by using Veggie's chi spam, shooting Goku's signature move Kamehameha & finally rebounce the blast to Earth which wiped out a random city (West City most probably) While Goku was exerting himself trying to stall time for Trunks getting the radar (mind you, greatest fighter in the universe who trained for eternity & utilizing his strongest Super Saiyan form) was even with Fat Boo who was enjoying the brawl Now you compare that to a slacked brat who got rusty for 7 goddamn years, got effing energy stolen, ridiculed by Dabura (Perfect Cell tier at best give or take), blasted away by Fat Boo's SINGLE attack & you got nerves expecting his heavy a* sword swinging would bridge the gap which should look like this: Weakened Adult SSJ2 Gohan < CG SSJ2 Kid Gohan < SSJ2 Goku/Majin Veggie < SSJ3 Goku ~ Fat Boo To OMG!!! Gohan trained with heavy a* Z-sword BAM!!! Z-Sword Gohan ~ SSJ3 Goku/Fat Boo Gohan w***ing needs to be stopped



Saberoph	May 16 2016, 04:14 PM Post #74
Posts: 11,517 Group: Member Member #5,650 Joined: January 23, 2011 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I wouldn't put him equal to SSJ3 Kakarrot...at best I would only have him 90% of Fat Boo. I do agree that swinging a sword and becoming that power in just one day is really stupid, but it's what we're given and it really isn't contradicted nor is it outright proven wrong either.
	Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.


EMIYA	May 16 2016, 04:19 PM Post #75
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Billa May 16 2016, 04:06 PM Goku fought Boo who was trolling by using Veggie's chi spam, shooting Goku's signature move Kamehameha & finally rebounce the blast to Earth which wiped out a random city (West City most probably) While Goku was exerting himself trying to stall time for Trunks getting the radar (mind you, greatest fighter in the universe who trained for eternity & utilizing his strongest Super Saiyan form) was even with Fat Boo who was enjoying the brawl Now you compare that to a slacked brat who got rusty for 7 goddamn years, got effing energy stolen, ridiculed by Dabura (Perfect Cell tier at best give or take), blasted away by Fat Boo's SINGLE attack & you got nerves expecting his heavy a* sword swinging would bridge the gap which should look like this: Weakened Adult SSJ2 Gohan < CG SSJ2 Kid Gohan < SSJ2 Goku/Majin Veggie < SSJ3 Goku ~ Fat Boo To OMG!!! Gohan trained with heavy a* Z-sword BAM!!! Z-Sword Gohan ~ SSJ3 Goku/Fat Boo Gohan w*ing needs to be stopped Yeah that's kind of exactly what happened. The only difference is that Gohan doesn't necessarily need to rival Boo right now, just being getting near there. It could be in the same vein as Perfect Cell and SSj2 Kid Gohan where Cell,despite easily being stronger than everyone else, is still weaker than Gohan. Let's get this straight right now. It doesn't matter how Gohan got this power. It doesn't matter if he swung a heavy sword around for a day, or went and smacked his hand across his head a few times and miraculously powered up because of it. It doesn't matter how he did it. If you want to get into an issue of writing or something you can do that in regards to a different topic. But yeah, as much as you may not want to believe it, Gohan did make those huge gains in that short amount of time and his power increased to the point where despite being told specifically that someone of SSj2 Vegeta's caliber would be nothing to Boo and having just recently fought Boo himself, instead of outright denying Gohan's capability of defeating Boo, instead acts uncertain. That pretty much says Zeta Gohan>>>SSj2 Majin Vegeta. And where that puts Gohan can be expressed anywhere to rivaling Majin Boo, to perhaps still somewhat significantly weaker. But Goku's entire remark says it all here. Edited by EMIYA**, May 16 2016, 04:54 PM.



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