Z-Sword Gohan vs Vegeta

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Z-Sword Gohan vs Vegeta
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 26 2016, 12:42 AM (4,821 Views)
EMIYA	Apr 29 2016, 04:16 PM Post #31
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Here's an even better idea. Kaioshin: This is amazing, Gohan's power is truly #1 right now, he could defeat Majin Boo. Gohan: No. Because of my lack of training, both my father and even Vegeta greatly surpassed me, but they still couldn't defeat Majin Boo. Even after training with the sword, I couldn't do any better than Vegeta did. Because you know, if Gohan's weaker than Vegeta or SSJ2 Goku, why not just have Gohan himself state this. Even if Gohan never felt Fat Boo's full power (though I'm pretty sure everyone felt SSj3 goku) Gohan knew he was far weaker than someone like Vegeta at the time. Instead going on about how the Z-Sword has increased his strength or something, why not just have the guy who would know he's still weaker...just admit it? Goku may be a massive hick at times but Gohan is supposed to be the smart guy, the scholar, the guy who actually has an education.



Zoom	May 1 2016, 07:48 AM Post #32
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Dark Matter Apr 29 2016, 04:16 PM Here's an even better idea. Kaioshin: This is amazing, Gohan's power is truly #1 right now, he could defeat Majin Boo. Gohan: No. Because of my lack of training, both my father and even Vegeta greatly surpassed me, but they still couldn't defeat Majin Boo. Even after training with the sword, I couldn't do any better than Vegeta did. Because you know, if Gohan's weaker than Vegeta or SSJ2 Goku, why not just have Gohan himself state this. Even if Gohan never felt Fat Boo's full power (though I'm pretty sure everyone felt SSj3 goku) Gohan knew he was far weaker than someone like Vegeta at the time. Instead going on about how the Z-Sword has increased his strength or something, why not just have the guy who would know he's still weaker...just admit it? Goku may be a massive hick at times but Gohan is supposed to be the smart guy, the scholar, the guy who actually has an education. I asked for evidence and you bring useless head canon. Show me the evidence! Heavy weight means nothing to power p.s @Mr Hashbrown I don't know why you giving high fives, since you yourself said; Mr Hashbrown Why do you keep bringing up the ritual? That raised his power past Super Boo. We're talking about Gohan's gains with the sword in relation to Fat Boo. The have no relation to each other. It's not that hard to understand, since yourself confessed that the time Gohan was swinging the z-sword was not training that Kaioshin intended, so you either agree to Gohan getting magically stronger just by swinging a sword or not at all. And since Gohan, who the person we are debating about said he has only increased arm strength and there's no evidence throughout the entire 42 volumes of the manga that big muscles increases chi, you're grasping at straws. Plus if you include what Old Kaioshin said afterwards dismissing the swinging of the sword as training. Teen Gohan was weaker than his kid self, Goku and Vegeta are stronger than kid Gohan, but was said to be weaker than this version of Majin fat Buu pre power up ^ Goku told Gohan he could beat anyone if he could get mad, Buu turned around and beat his a* in two blows almost crippling Gohan. Edited by Zoom**, May 1 2016, 08:48 AM.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Post #33
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin).
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 08:59 AM Post #34
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Emmeth May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin). How? since Goku told Gohan to get mad to beat Buu and that nobody can beat him which Goku who just used his ssj3 to fight. Ssj3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's Ssj2. also "I wonder" is used as evidence is laughable. Edited by Zoom, May 1 2016, 09:00 AM.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 09:01 AM Post #35
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 08:59 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin). How? since Goku told Gohan to get mad to beat Buu and that nobody can beat him which Goku who just used his ssj3 to fight. Ssj3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's Ssj2 Goku didn't know the full extension of Boo's power then. You can call that a confidence talk since Goku wanted Gohan to use his full potential. Sure SSJ3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's SSJ2, why does that matter? SSJ3 Goku is still stronger than the hypothetical SSJ2 Post-Sword Gohan, but that's not the versus at hand.
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 09:08 AM Post #36
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Emmeth May 1 2016, 09:01 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 08:59 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin). How? since Goku told Gohan to get mad to beat Buu and that nobody can beat him which Goku who just used his ssj3 to fight. Ssj3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's Ssj2 Goku didn't know the full extension of Boo's power then. You can call that a confidence talk since Goku wanted Gohan to use his full potential. Sure SSJ3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's SSJ2, why does that matter? SSJ3 Goku is still stronger than the hypothetical SSJ2 Post-Sword Gohan, but that's not the versus at hand. What are you talking about? goku knew full well he needed his Ssj3 to hold of Buu. Goku didn't know the full extend of Buu power or his reserve, but Goku knew enough that he needed ssj3. Also, it matters because it gives you an idea of the gap swinging a heavy sword Gohan had to gain since the entire 42 volumes contradict the notion of big muscles = higher power levels. Edited by Zoom, May 1 2016, 09:12 AM.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 09:10 AM Post #37
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 09:08 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 09:01 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 08:59 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin). How? since Goku told Gohan to get mad to beat Buu and that nobody can beat him which Goku who just used his ssj3 to fight. Ssj3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's Ssj2 Goku didn't know the full extension of Boo's power then. You can call that a confidence talk since Goku wanted Gohan to use his full potential. Sure SSJ3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's SSJ2, why does that matter? SSJ3 Goku is still stronger than the hypothetical SSJ2 Post-Sword Gohan, but that's not the versus at hand. What are you talking about? goku knew full well he needed his Ssj3 to hold of Buu. Goku didn't know the full extend of Buu power or his reserve, but Goku knew enough that he needed ssj3 Why are you derailing the topic? I don't understand why you even need to bring SSJ3 into this.
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 09:29 AM Post #38
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Emmeth May 1 2016, 09:10 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 09:08 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 09:01 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 08:59 AM Emmeth May 1 2016, 08:54 AM Goku has always known to be very blunt and him even pondering if Gohan could be Fat Boo gives us the reason to believe Gohan could potentially challenge the Boo. Believing Goku was "just giving Gohan a confidence talk", so to speak, is baseless and even contradictory. It had been stated many times how much Gohan had improved using the Z-Sword, and before the training he had already been rivalling Vegeta (Pre-Majin). How? since Goku told Gohan to get mad to beat Buu and that nobody can beat him which Goku who just used his ssj3 to fight. Ssj3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's Ssj2 Goku didn't know the full extension of Boo's power then. You can call that a confidence talk since Goku wanted Gohan to use his full potential. Sure SSJ3 still dwarfs Kid Gohan's SSJ2, why does that matter? SSJ3 Goku is still stronger than the hypothetical SSJ2 Post-Sword Gohan, but that's not the versus at hand. What are you talking about? goku knew full well he needed his Ssj3 to hold of Buu. Goku didn't know the full extend of Buu power or his reserve, but Goku knew enough that he needed ssj3 Why are you derailing the topic? I don't understand why you even need to bring SSJ3 into this. Are you deliberately ignoring that Goku said to Gohan "get mad and you will not lose to ANYONE"? If you ask why did i bring Ssj3, it counters what Dark Matter said about Goku not giving a peep talk to Gohan. Let me ask you a couple of simple questions to make things easier... 1. Do you agree that the special training east Kaioshin wanted Gohan to achieve was actually Old Kaioshin's special ability? = this is very simple as the manga clearly states it! 2. Do you agree yes/no that Old Kaioshin dismissed Gohan swinging a sword as training? = ^ point 1 already had Old Kaioshin clearly stating what Gohan was doing before hand was not training. 3. Do you have any evidence to object to what Gohan said he only increased arm strength? 4. Can you show me throughout the 42 volumes of the manga that Akira Toriyama wrote during serialization that arm strength equals higher chi or increase chi? ^ it's very simple, yes? Goku's Ssj3 should be around 4x stronger than his Ssj2. Teen Gohan was noted that he was way weaker than his younger self as kid. Since even Mr Hashbrown agrees that Z-Sword Gohan gains has to come from swinging the sword around, the gap between Gohan as a teen to be anywhere near Majin fat Buu is around at least 4x. And since throughout the 42 volumes of the manga showed no proof that big muscles and arm strength doesn't correlate with higher chi/ki then Goku's evidence as saying "I wonder" is not really evidence since the manga refutes it. Edited by Zoom, May 1 2016, 09:36 AM.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 09:39 AM Post #39
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 09:29 AM Are you deliberately ignoring that Goku said to Gohan "get mad and you will not lose to ANYONE"? and this is after the Ssj3 vs Majin fat Buu fight. 1. Do you agree that the special training east Kaioshin wanted Gohan to achieve was actually Old Kaioshin's special ability? = this is very simple as the manga clearly states it! 2. Do you agree yes/no that Old Kaioshin dismissed Gohan swinging a sword as training? = ^ point 1 already had Old Kaioshin clearly stating what Gohan was doing before hand was not training. 3. Do you have any evidence to object to what Gohan said he only increased arm strength? 4. Can you show me throughout the 42 volumes of the manga that Akira Toriyama wrote during serialization that arm strength equals higher chi or increase chi? ^ it's very simple, yes? Goku's Ssj3 should be around 4x stronger than his Ssj2. Teen Gohan was noted that he was way weaker than his younger self as kid. Since even Mr Hashbrown agrees that Z-Sword Gohan gains has to come from swinging the sword around, the gap between Gohan as a teen to be anywhere near Majin fat Buu is around at least 4x. And since throughout the 42 volumes of the manga showed no proof that big muscles and arm strength doesn't correlate with higher chi/ki then Goku's evidence as saying "I wonder" is not really evidence since the manga refutes it. Goku never said that to Gohan after the SSJ3 vs Majin Boo fight. At least not in the manga, can't remember it in the anime either. 1. That's not his initial wish, no. Obviously Kaioshin is just as shocked as anyone when someone comes out of the Z-Sword. 2. He can dismiss it all he wants, it clearly made Gohan improve as Goku and Kaioshin pointed out. 3. Sure, he mentions arm strength but matter of the fact is ^ Goku and Kaioshin believes he's close to Fat Boo in power. Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4 Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.” Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!” Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…” You don't honestly believe Gohan could challenge Majin Boo with only arm strength being increased, do you? 4. Can you show me the opposite? SSJ3 is irrelevant in the scheme of things, since SSJ2 Gohan is already rivalling Fat Boo.
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 10:12 AM Post #40
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Emmeth May 1 2016, 09:39 AM SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 09:29 AM Are you deliberately ignoring that Goku said to Gohan "get mad and you will not lose to ANYONE"? and this is after the Ssj3 vs Majin fat Buu fight. 1. Do you agree that the special training east Kaioshin wanted Gohan to achieve was actually Old Kaioshin's special ability? = this is very simple as the manga clearly states it! 2. Do you agree yes/no that Old Kaioshin dismissed Gohan swinging a sword as training? = ^ point 1 already had Old Kaioshin clearly stating what Gohan was doing before hand was not training. 3. Do you have any evidence to object to what Gohan said he only increased arm strength? 4. Can you show me throughout the 42 volumes of the manga that Akira Toriyama wrote during serialization that arm strength equals higher chi or increase chi? ^ it's very simple, yes? Goku's Ssj3 should be around 4x stronger than his Ssj2. Teen Gohan was noted that he was way weaker than his younger self as kid. Since even Mr Hashbrown agrees that Z-Sword Gohan gains has to come from swinging the sword around, the gap between Gohan as a teen to be anywhere near Majin fat Buu is around at least 4x. And since throughout the 42 volumes of the manga showed no proof that big muscles and arm strength doesn't correlate with higher chi/ki then Goku's evidence as saying "I wonder" is not really evidence since the manga refutes it. Goku never said that to Gohan after the SSJ3 vs Majin Boo fight. At least not in the manga, can't remember it in the anime either. 1. That's not his initial wish, no. Obviously Kaioshin is just as shocked as anyone when someone comes out of the Z-Sword. 2. He can dismiss it all he wants, it clearly made Gohan improve as Goku and Kaioshin pointed out. 3. Sure, he mentions arm strength but matter of the fact is ^ Goku and Kaioshin believes he's close to Fat Boo in power. Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4 Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.” Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!” Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…” You don't honestly believe Gohan could challenge Majin Boo with only arm strength being increased, do you? 4. Can you show me the opposite? SSJ3 is irrelevant in the scheme of things, since SSJ2 Gohan is already rivalling Fat Boo. No they didn't, sorry did you not read what Gohan said? "his arms strength has increased and maybe this what is meant as the strongest power in the world? Gohan recently just fought this Buu and got owned in 2 hits. Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4 Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.” Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!” Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…” Sorry, so your saying east Kaioshin is so sure that Gohan has increased in power in terms of chi, but is unsure whether or not if this relates to the greatest power and questions himself in a wrong way saying "Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!” As the whole state of mind of east Kaioshin was to get Gohan to train with the z-sword which he thought allowed him to defeat Buu once and for all. So once the z-sword broke he thinks Gohan has increased enough and on top of that he assumes Ssj would be enough to warrant "the strongest in the world". Delusional as the next panel clearly states otherwise. Quote: You don't honestly believe Gohan could challenge Majin Boo with only arm strength being increased, do you? You should ask Gohan that... wait Gohan had this to say: Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. Edited by Zoom, May 1 2016, 10:21 AM.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 10:19 AM Post #41
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Power is linear in DBZ. You don't just improve one part of your body, you improve all of them. The fact that Gohan trained with his arms leaves him saying that he has felt a dramatic increase in strength thereof. Once he actually fights and practices the new powers he has he'll realize that it's not just the arms. I'm not sure what 'wrong' has to do with Kaioshin saying SSJ is the greatest power in the universe. They are talking about how the SSJ transformations are linear and that subsequent power-ups will give Gohan more power. It's obviously old news to us, but it seems like Kaioshin is just pointing it out. It's futile to focus on the arms part, since Goku clearly questions if Gohan is strong enough to take on Majin Boo when he definitely wasn't before. What's the part you're missing?
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 10:51 AM Post #42
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Emmeth May 1 2016, 10:19 AM Power is linear in DBZ. You don't just improve one part of your body, you improve all of them. The fact that Gohan trained with his arms leaves him saying that he has felt a dramatic increase in strength thereof. Once he actually fights and practices the new powers he has he'll realize that it's not just the arms. I'm not sure what 'wrong' has to do with Kaioshin saying SSJ is the greatest power in the universe. They are talking about how the SSJ transformations are linear and that subsequent power-ups will give Gohan more power. It's obviously old news to us, but it seems like Kaioshin is just pointing it out. It's futile to focus on the arms part, since Goku clearly questions if Gohan is strong enough to take on Majin Boo when he definitely wasn't before. What's the part you're missing? Okay, it's the confidence argument... cough that argument has been dismissed with numerous others throughout the series. Especially since the following panels have someone else stating the opposite of what your claiming. You guys have yet provided any evidence besides your own head canon and the evidence you do provide has been responded to by Old Kaioshin and Gohan's own words. This is the thing: 1. Old Kaioshin magic power up where the person sits for hours as he draws out the person's potential and extended it way past their limits. 2. Swinging a heavy sword which at first thought was the real training of z-sword legend. ^ both seem very stupid, right.... but the difference is option 1 Old Kaioshin states this is what he could do and Gohan himself said after the ritual "this is amazing" whereas option 2, not only throughout the entire 42 volumes there has NEVER been any relationship between a person's arm strength and the size of their muscles to chi/ki, but the only thing was stated that Gohan increased his arm strength and Kaioshin including explanations to justify the broken z-sword as he tries to come up explanations of why Gohan doesn't need the z-sword any more. And so what if Goku says "I wonder"? east Kaioshin said Buu "somehow" absorbed South Kaioshin. Can you make a distinctive answer to where he lies in strength? The difference between South Kaioshin and Gohan is that South Kaioshin only had one dialogue about him with Kid Buu, whereas Gohan had himself and Old Kaioshin. What does that mean? If Gohan just used heavy dumbbells weights, how does that improved other areas? You're reaching. What? Power is linear... since when?



* Yu Narukami	May 1 2016, 10:58 AM Post #43
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	You must think that either Goku wants his son to die or he forgot how to sense Ki. If Gohan is weaker than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta after training with the Z-Sword, no amount of arm strength is going to make a difference. Even if Goku was, for some reason, lying to Gohan, why wouldn't Gohan shoot him down if he was lying? We saw earlier on in the Saga that Gohan's not afraid to admit when he's weak, so you'd have a situation where Kaioshin is so desperate that he's being completely illogical, Gohan's either holding the idiot ball or is in denial and Goku either wants his son to die or feels like his son's feelings are more important than not giving him false hope.



+ Emmeth	May 1 2016, 11:05 AM Post #44
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	SSj4 Gotenks May 1 2016, 10:51 AM Okay, it's the confidence argument... cough that argument has been dismissed with numerous others throughout the series. Especially since the following panels have someone else stating the opposite of what your claiming. You guys have yet provided any evidence besides your own head canon and the evidence you do provide has been responded to by Old Kaioshin and Gohan's own words. This is the thing: 1. Old Kaioshin magic power up where the person sits for hours as he draws out the person's potential and extended it way past their limits. 2. Swinging a heavy sword which at first thought was the real training of z-sword legend. ^ both seem very stupid, right.... but the difference is option 1 Old Kaioshin states this is what he could do and Gohan himself said after the ritual "this is amazing" whereas option 2, not only throughout the entire 42 volumes there has NEVER been any relationship between a person's arm strength and the size of their muscles to chi/ki, but the only thing was stated that Gohan increased his arm strength and Kaioshin including explanations to justify the broken z-sword as he tries to come up explanations of why Gohan doesn't need the z-sword any more. And so what if Goku says "I wonder"? east Kaioshin said Buu "somehow" absorbed South Kaioshin. Can you make a distinctive answer to where he lies in strength? The difference between South Kaioshin and Gohan is that South Kaioshin only had one dialogue about him with Kid Buu, whereas Gohan had himself and Old Kaioshin. What does that mean? If Gohan just used heavy dumbbells weights, how does that improved other areas? You're reaching. What? Power is linear... since when? All of this makes no difference at all because Goku wonders if Gohan could beat Majin Boo. The same Majin Boo that blew Gohan away. If Goku was sure Gohan couldn't beat Majin Boo he'd be "Nah, kiddo, you're still weak as s***, you won't make a difference to Majin Boo.", but he didn't do that. I don't need anything else. Everything else is on you to prove me wrong and nothing you've come up with is remotely close to breaking the sound-proof quote Goku said. Sorry.
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Zoom	May 1 2016, 11:18 AM Post #45
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Nagito Komaeda May 1 2016, 10:58 AM You must think that either Goku wants his son to die or he forgot how to sense Ki. If Gohan is weaker than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta after training with the Z-Sword, no amount of arm strength is going to make a difference. Even if Goku was, for some reason, lying to Gohan, why wouldn't Gohan shoot him down if he was lying? We saw earlier on in the Saga that Gohan's not afraid to admit when he's weak, so you'd have a situation where Kaioshin is so desperate that he's being completely illogical, Gohan's either holding the idiot ball or is in denial and Goku either wants his son to die or feels like his son's feelings are more important than not giving him false hope. And what makes you think anybody in the conversation was talking about base Gohan after z-sword swinging going up against Majin fat Buu and not his Ssj transformation? As Piccolo already stated that Vegeta post majin and Goku's Ssj2 was ahead of kid Gohan's Ssj2, Gohan's teen still had access to his Ssj2 as shown at the tournament. Hopefully you're not stating base z-sword Gohan was close to Majin fat Buu levels which was somewhat close to Ssj3 Goku? This is why Old Kaioshin was introduced so Gohan can start his REAL training. Quote: I don't need anything else. Everything else is on you to prove me wrong and nothing you've come up with is remotely close to breaking the sound-proof quote Goku said. You're the one that's trying to insert a ridiculous notion in Gohan increasing so much he rivals a monster that is close to Ssj3 Goku by swinging a heavy sword. It's obvious you don't have the Viz or Japanese manga, you're arguing in circles and nitpicking quotes and relying heavily on Goku who just says "I wonder" wow... great soundproof evidence Edited by Zoom, May 1 2016, 11:26 AM.



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