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- How Fast is Goku Now? (SPOILERS)
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| How Fast is Goku Now? (SPOILERS) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 17 2016, 10:34 PM (19,595 Views) | |
| BioBroly288 | Apr 17 2016, 10:34 PM Post #1 |
Saiyan Of Legend
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If you guys saw episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super, Goku incorporates his Kaioken technique with his Super Sayian blue form Multiplying all of the forms attributes (Speed and Power) 10x. Hit uses an improved version of his time leap (Which can now stop time for half a second) yet Goku was moving a abnormal speeds that he was still able to move even when Hit Stop time Meaning Goku Can move so fast that he can bypass the time barrier. [FLASH=250,250][URL=http://makeagif.com/0vYf7B]  [/URL][/FLASH]Edited by BioBroly288, Apr 17 2016, 10:44 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 08:58 PM Post #121 |
 
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the water droplets did not show up again, they appeared... and then Vegeta charged in cutting away from them... and then the water droplets are gone. As for when he disappeared from sight, he had a smokescreen both times. Any specific scenes exactly? Looking for a full fight on youtube is proving difficult, and my play be play doesn't let me see how long everything took (I tried to cut down on them just staring at each other as well). Oh, alright. And yeah, nothing there suggests those speeds. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 09:13 PM Post #122 |
 
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Beerus spun him, he recovers and lands a hit on beerus. When the water droplets show up beerus is shows concern when vegeta literally blitzes him before the drops start to fall. Beerus, being way faster than light, was knocked around and blitzed by someone who's subsonic? And to top it off there were sonic booms from their hits after. That seals it Just watch the whole fight. It's definitely above subsonic Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 09:29 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 09:43 PM Post #123 |
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It does not show the water droplets falling or in the air or anything by the time Vegeta actually hits Beerus. They're just gone (presumably having fallen into the ocean). That's the problem. And quite honestly Beerus just tends to take attacks with his face anyway, it's a fairly consistent thing that happens, especially in the fight against Goku. Goku constantly gets in free hits against Beerus. It's not that Vegeta blitzed him, it's just Beerus letting Vegeta hit him, like he did with Goku quite a few times during the fight, most egregious being when Goku went ssj. There were shockwaves in every punch in general during that fight, but even then here's what Goku is doing not ten episodes later. What you're looking at are striking feats more than anything. They punch so hard that their clashes create shockwaves. But they are not causing sonic booms. If I'm missing some moment here, please direct me to the minute mark or even make a gif to study. Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 09:48 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 10:04 PM Post #124 |
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Fair point I guess with the drops but I doubt they hit the water before vegeta got to him or the scene would be pointless imo beerus tends to tank stuff yeah but between :45 to 1:01 beerus gets hit by surprise twice. He's shocked the first time and again when vegeta hits from behind. Then, beerus shows a concerned look on his face when the stops right above the water because vegeta blitzes him so fast What's the difference between a sonic boom and shockwave? They both happen when something breaks the sound barrier right? Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 10:07 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 10:23 PM Post #125 |
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It's just an animation thing as far as I can tell. It's not like say, Goku and the time leap where that's the climax of the episode. Whooops, Sonic boom is creating by shockwaves. Shockwaves usually happen when an explosion occurs or something breaks the sound barrier. Though it should be noted that breaking the sound barrier looks like this  Fairly different from what we're shown right? It's a cone, not a... well circle I guess is the best way to describe it. Not to mention the sound that plays during all this suggests that this is from punches, the power of their fists colliding. And while you could argue that's combat speed... Speed doesn't arbitrarily get bigger when you start, stop, evade, and other combat maneuvers. It drops if anything. Their punches are faster, but then punching with an arm is much faster than moving with your legs, which is what this whole thing is about. How fast they move, rather than how they punch. Fair enough though, they can break the sound barrier with a punch (though I get the feeling the intent is more about the force than the speed). That doesn't however mean they move that fast flying around or running around. Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 10:27 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 10:31 PM Post #126 |
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Ok but what about vegeta blitzing beerus so fast that he's surprised by his speed? Or beerus freaking out after both times vegeta hits him without him even seeing it coming? There's no point in discussing vegeta vs beerus anymore. There's still goku fighting beerus and I can't think of a single good counter argument for that Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 10:39 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 10:45 PM Post #127 |
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For some reason I forgot to respond to that. Weird. :s 0:45 he used the momentum from the strike to get his own strike in, it's likely the ingenuity and recovery that surprised him more so than anything. 1:01 is harder to explain but from what I can tell.. His eyes seem to be closed before opening them and he's raising his head a bit at the end of this as well, at which point Vegeta must have already been in the air. Plus if we're taking the time playing into consideration like you want he's not moving FTL because I doubt Vegeta would just wait there for a second before attacking for no reason.  Honestly it's a little hard to read this, but I'm not seeing his eyes as he flies here. It was supposed to go a little farther than where you'd suddenly see his head in a different position as well as his eyes but the very end of it seems to have been cut off by imgur for some reason. edit: Yeah, looking at the video frame by frame it seems to be that Beerus had his eyes closed, giving Vegeta enough time to get above. Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 10:47 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 10:56 PM Post #128 |
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After the recovery and vegeta hits him in the air, vegeta is able to move fast enough to get behind beerus and hit him and beerus lost track of him. Then, at around 1:01, and idk what you're talking about with the closed eyes, but for the most part at least beerus is looking at vegeta blitzing him and gasps because vegeta is coming at him at impressive speeds Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to be faster than light here. I'm only saying that going by this, it's very hard to believe vegeta is subsonic. I can't see any of this being possible with subsonic speeds especially knowing beerus is much faster than light And then there's still goku vs beerus |
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| lazerbem | Apr 20 2016, 11:00 PM Post #129 |
 
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@Tinny Imgur always shaves off the last few frames. I don't have it down to a science, but you want to extend it by an instant more as you're making it. Make sure to look at the finished result and redo it if not satisfied. |
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 11:17 PM Post #130 |
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Look at the gif very carefully, if you need to use glasses put them on or something. Zoom in, anything there's no yellow, his eyes are closed and his head is facing down at his chest. And for reference, the speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second, the speed of sound is 340.29 meters per second. That's a huge difference, if we're bringing in Beerus as speed of light then nothing Vegeta does makes any sense without saying he's FTL, but once again he does leave himself open allot. You may as well say it's impossible for anyone there to be sublight. And then you have Hit with a very clear sublight feat, in one of if not the most clear speed feat of the entire show period, where they explicitly gave out a time 'n everything. Frankly with how DBS seems to have things, especially lately, I think their combat speed and reaction time is far below that of their travel speed. Different from previous dragon ball titles and how they often have things (well the consensus held was that anyways). From what I can tell combat speed<<<<<<Travel Speed. Certainly helps to explain how Jaco and Bulma of all people are able to keep up with the fights despite everyone the being at the god level (maybe) which is supposedly MFTL in combat speed. Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 11:18 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 11:42 PM Post #131 |
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Ohh you're saying when vegeta first hits him into the air his eyes are closed? I thought you were talking about 1:01 Well alright saying vegeta doesn't have to be faster than light backfired. But then vegeta has to be faster than light or at least close or something. Beerus is impressed with his speed when he blitzes him. The whole point of the first half of the fight is that vegeta is surprisingly able to pressure and land hits on beerus and beerus being impressed with his speed Jaco is an exception. We have statements for his vision being really good. As for Bulma, idk if she could see everything but if she could it's just a typical inconsistency that we've been seeing since Z And this wasn't in Super but for what it's worth gohan's speed feat in the RF movie(idk what the consensus is but I don't see what's wrong with the movies supplementing the series as long as something different doesn't happen in the series) was likely faster than subsonic and he was a much weaker base saiyan |
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| Tinny | Apr 21 2016, 12:59 AM Post #132 |
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well it leads right into 1:01 and explains how Vegeta got the drop. Again, I consider combat speed (reactions and such) to be far slower than travel speed in DBS. Otherwise how do you explain Hit's speed feat compared to Beerus showing up to the hoho planet in epsisode two? The point of the fight was to make it look like Vegeta was winning, only to show that Beerus wasn't even trying, with a dash of Vegeta being better than Goku by him saying that it's been a long time since someone made him use 10%. Which everyone else seems to say is a lie anyways so apparently Beerus was just really holding back. There was also nigh ki-less Goten able to follow the action of characters who are supposedly MFTL. This guy has trouble with a big earth snake. It's a funny joke but does anyone really think that snake is stronger than Freeza? I consider them completely separate, DBS has more time than the movies to tell the story, and they still left that stuff out. I'd say that's for a reason, not to mention many many complete contradictions of scenes, like how the god ritual went, or what Gohan did, or how the ki distress call was sent out, or Tagoma and Ginyu's everything, or Beerus's personality in general, or the general direction of the fight, they didn't even go underground in DBS, best was underwater. I see no reason for either to a supplement to the other when they differ so radically. |
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| Zoom | Apr 21 2016, 01:14 AM Post #133 |
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Whut? Did you say Beerus was MFTL? When was he? |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 21 2016, 01:17 AM Post #134 |
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But what I'm trying to get at is this: Going by the vegeta vs beerus and goku vs beerus, they're much faster than light. No inconsistency here. But when you over analyze the hit scene by going further than the authors intentions, everything changes. Not only is that unnecessary, things start to not make sense. It ends up resulting in subsonic combat speed. However after seeing vegeta vs beerus, a fight that is that at the very least nearing the speed of sound, it makes no sense for hit to be that slow Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 21 2016, 01:18 AM.
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| Tinny | Apr 21 2016, 01:20 AM Post #135 |
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Their punches reached the speed of sound hydrating from how everything is portrayed, but they did not necessarily fight faster than the speed of sound. And again, is there a single speed feat in all of DBS that's as clear cut as this? It's very explicit. Hit crosses the arena in a started time frame of .1 seconds. @SSj4Gotenks General consensus mostly. Edited by Tinny, Apr 21 2016, 01:21 AM.
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