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- How Fast is Goku Now? (SPOILERS)
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| How Fast is Goku Now? (SPOILERS) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 17 2016, 10:34 PM (19,596 Views) | |
| BioBroly288 | Apr 17 2016, 10:34 PM Post #1 |
Saiyan Of Legend
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If you guys saw episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super, Goku incorporates his Kaioken technique with his Super Sayian blue form Multiplying all of the forms attributes (Speed and Power) 10x. Hit uses an improved version of his time leap (Which can now stop time for half a second) yet Goku was moving a abnormal speeds that he was still able to move even when Hit Stop time Meaning Goku Can move so fast that he can bypass the time barrier. [FLASH=250,250][URL=http://makeagif.com/0vYf7B]  [/URL][/FLASH]Edited by BioBroly288, Apr 17 2016, 10:44 PM.
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| Zoom | Apr 19 2016, 11:57 PM Post #106 |
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Hit has evolution on his side, right? Plus, I think this video solves all the problems. Goku is ahead of Hit's time leap... whatever the hell that means.   Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Zoom, Apr 20 2016, 12:38 AM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 01:43 AM Post #107 |
 
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Tinny sorry but I'm not accepting it. If you look at the scene they're barely 100 feet way from each other. If he covers it in .1 second then he's going 1,000 fps. There's no f***ing way hit is not even super sonic You did a good job analyzing it don't get me wrong. But I honestly think it's an over analysis. The point of the scene wasn't to give us numbers. The scene's intentions were only to show that goku was fast enough and smart enough to counter his timeskip. When you break it down any further than that we get bodb level speed and I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. I know you think super has changed things but you and I both know that's not how slow these characters are meant to be Your position on the faster than time thing I can agree with though Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 01:44 AM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Apr 20 2016, 01:47 AM Post #108 |
Izanagi!
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The idea's an outlier; it literally goes against itself. If Goku was fast enough to bypass Hit's Time Leap, he wouldn't have been frozen in the first place. If he was strong enough to bypass it, he wouldn't have been frozen in the first place. The fact of the matter is that any explanation of how he moved during the Time Leap includes factors that would let him move at the very beginning of it. |
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 02:09 AM Post #109 |
 
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Frankly if it weren't for Gotenks somehow taking 30 minutes to get to Freeza I wouldn't consider Hit being subsonic, but I have a really low opinion on how DBS deals with examples from it's previous iterations. As far as I'm concerned, featwise it stands on it's own. Doesn't help that Toriyama has already stated he doesn't care about consistency with previous material, and in that case I'm not examining this with previous stuff in mind. It's a fair position to take, to use previous iterations of Dragon Ball franchise and look at DBS with those in mind, but it's evidently not one Toriyama shares, given how he's stated that he doesn't care about staying consistent. And as such I won't really be sharing it either. Hooray! Yeah, I just don't find the Faster than Time thing to be correct just from how it's presented. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 05:34 AM Post #110 |
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Gotenks didn't take half an hour though. The fight hadn't been going on for that long. Gotenks diffused because the writers were that clueless of what they were doing |
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| Zoom | Apr 20 2016, 05:42 AM Post #111 |
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What have you done Toei? The Flash was moving so fast that everybody seems frozen as shown like how Hit frezza's time. Spoiler: click to toggle What about this? Spoiler: click to toggle You can't be serious, without any context such as including infinity, your feats are meaningless outside of Goku vs Hit. Edited by Zoom, Apr 20 2016, 06:26 AM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 10:55 AM Post #112 |
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Thus would hardly be the first time that a tv show's, tune was wacked, JJBA sites this really well with the final episodes, often withc the time stop so lasting far longer than it should. And Gotenks took thus long because the writers are clueless. And to be honest even then if he had hos Z speed he should have got there almost immediately, Tagoma didn't have had tone to beat everyone up. That's still Gotenks taking longer than he should. Honestly even then that's still a huge flub in writing, either they forgot how fast Gotenks was, or they forgot how long fusion lasts, which is even worse considering that was stated. Both of which are large enough mistakes for me to think that DBS has been retconned to subsonic by the feats they've shown. Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 11:01 AM.
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| Timothy | Apr 20 2016, 01:26 PM Post #113 |
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Only downplayers use bukujutsu or travel feats in combat speed discussions We have Light speed moon busters in the same tier( not outliers by definition and not plot induced cause the alternative could've been to cut the tails of goku or gohan) Special beam cannon Freezas death beams Goku escaping a nuke sized explosion at point blank range Goku dodging geros photon beams at point blank range Gohan dodging his deflected blast and buus kamehameha Ss3 Gokus body reacting before Beerus became ready to attack and at low levels Beerus bukujutsu speed is enough to crossb nebulae and galaxies in less than 2 minutes And combat speed is far better The downplay i see smh and with travel its usually plot controlled and the gotenks moment was a gag. Ppl nitpick to make these characters weak. So glad toryama doesnt come on these forums he'd die from a stress induced brain blood vessel pop For christs sake base Vegeta bog saga dodged lasers in 150x gravity Edited by Timothy, Apr 20 2016, 01:28 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 04:20 PM Post #114 |
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I'm trying to tell you you're overanalyzing and its leading to problems. Goku's feat isn't meant to give us a number on how fast they can cover a certain distance. It was only to show that he was fast enough and smart enough to counter hit and his time leap. When you analyze much further we get problems. No one in the right mind is going to agree with high god tier characters being subsonic dude it's ridiculous and makes no sense. It contradicts everything we've seen since the beginning of dragon ball. It's really outside of the authors intent. Do you honestly believe they meant for them to be that slow? Hell, I think chef vegeta might've been faster than that! Another example for over analyzing a feat is goku crossing snake way. If you factor in atmosphere, kaioken, curves, and the fact that the distance is stated as a legend, the feat isn't usable now and you're messing with the authors intentions. Bit more extreme than what we're dealing with but it's a similar idea. It's a good analysis, but it's an over analysis that screws everything up I have no problem with gotenks not being as fast as he was in Z. Idk why gotenks diffused but he certainly didn't take half an hour. The fight hadn't even been going on for that long. It just doesn't make sense. The entire scene doesn't make sense. The writers wanted him to diffuse so they made him diffuse because plot. Personally that's the best explanation I can come up with as sad as it is. Anything else just doesn't add up or has no backing to it as far as I can see. It's a plot hole. No surprise the RF saga has a plot hole. That entire saga except for the finale was f***ed. Personally I don't recommend using plot holes to support your argument |
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 07:07 PM Post #115 |
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Contradicting Dragon Ball isn't new.
This show contradicts tons of stuff from Z or BoG, or the author's previous words depending on who you are, how many people do you think would have agreed that sneak attacks were as potent as they were before now? And no I don't, I think they never meant for anyone to be that fast. They never meant to think about the speed of sound let alone any of this faster than time stuff people brought up. Toriyama may have written Dragon Ball but he never, EVER thought of how strong they are in pounds, he just thought in relation to chargers. Their actual speed durability, strength, force, ki attacks, all of that only extended as far as them getting where they need to go, easy shorthand to show Gotenks speed, planet being destroyed to show Freeza is a bad person without needing to get into the nitty gritty. Outside of destroying planets, and later the universe, I doubt anyone at TOEI has thought that hard about what they can accomplish or not. Even saying they're faster than light is analyzing more than what the creators intended as well. The snake way gave us a time frame and a distance, my thoughts on Hit's speed is using time and a (overestimated to play it safe) distance. Also nice to see that evidently me looking at an arena and thinking "hey light speed should be able to cross this area fairly quickly even in the small amount of time hidden" is the same as bringing in factors that were never once brought up. If the plot hole is anything, it'd be how Goten nearly used a khh on a snake. A f***ing snake! These kids used to be more powerful than Freeza, now they're struggling with creatures Kid Goku would have probably hunted back in DB. Then going super slow is that. They have clearly been nerfed, and DBS in general doesn't have any idea what DB or Z we're capable of except in the broadest sense that someone watching a tv show similar to how one would watch any old popcorn movie. Which is "they can destroy planets," and "they can destroy the universe." Nothing more or less beyond how they react to each other, and certainly nothing enough to determine if they're light speed or the speed of sound or anything. In terms of author intent I doubt Toriyama every once thought about the speed of sound, the speed of light, the relationship between light and relativity and time, the mechanics of the khh (such add of its plasma or what ever), any of that. That's why Goku failed to lift forty tons, that's why Beerus thought Goku was weaker than Freeza in base, in Tori's eyes (at least in dbs or fnf) he was until training with Whis. And once again, Toriyama stated he doesn't care about consistency. I imagine this extends to consistency with previous Dragon Ball titles such as Z.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-interview/ Source for citation of quote. He deliberately tries to forget odds material, I can't imagine he's trying to remember much of it in any case. This is part of why I look at DBS on it's own, he clearly has no intention of purposefully maintaining contributory bribe the broadest of ways, like remembering that Kaioken exists (assuming this isn't TOEI's idea). I don't believe he deliberately did it, but I don't believe he'd think/believe/remember that Gotenks was a whole tenth the speed of light either. I don't believe he's thinking about the soured of light, I don't believe he'd he's thinking about FTL fighters, I don't believe he's thinking about subsonic characters either. Beyond the words fast and slow I don't think he's thinking about speed much at all. Neither of the ftl crowd nor the subsonic crowd (exaggeration but whatever) is going with author intent, the intent in most likely faster than Hit, slower than Beerus (probably). Edited by Tinny, Apr 20 2016, 07:13 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 07:20 PM Post #116 |
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Right I agree that saying things like light speed at all is probably beyond authors intent. But there's a difference between going beyond authors intent and messing things up and going beyond authors intent just to figure something out that doesn't contradict anything. That's why I don't think it's necessary to look at this scene that much. Well that's my opinion at least You don't know whether he deliberately forgot their speed but you also don't know whether he forgot about it at all Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 07:26 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 07:26 PM Post #117 |
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I didn't believe it contradicts anything with DBS, and while it obviously contradicts Z (I even said myself when first watching this as sarcasm "of cost you can't follow him, your speed is Z tier") so does so many things within DBS anyway. And while the end result may look different but the process is the same honestly. Like figuring out how fast Gotenks is. And it's not necessary to look at anything like that, this is a tv show selling merchandise to kids. It's fiction. None of this needs to be examined to any extent. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 07:59 PM Post #118 |
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It contradicts rage vegeta who was much weaker than ssj God but clearly not subsonic. It contradicts the fact that we know beerus is hilariously faster than light when he's not even full power and goku kept up with him And worst of all... IT CONTRADICTS CHEF FAJITA  Knowing the stats on characters is necessary for other vs...and for fun haha I wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't contradict dragon ball super. I could care less actually about stuff that happened like 20 years ago. I don't blame toriyama for not caring to stay completely consistent with a series he finished decades ago. But the consensus was that Super was faster than light or at least much much faster than sound and this over analysis while well thought out contradicts that Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 08:18 PM.
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| Tinny | Apr 20 2016, 08:37 PM Post #119 |
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You mean when he punches Beerus into the ocean, fights a bit, and gets out before the water pours in? Watch how the water reenters, that's clearly not water coming in normally, why isn't the water rushing in from all sides? I don't think that's proof of speed of sound rageta, that's more a showing of strength, or a violation of physics. Chef Vegeta is third to Takoyaki stand guy and Farmer With a Shotgun only. Seriously though what did he do? Which resulted in what I was doing. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 20 2016, 08:43 PM Post #120 |
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Not exactly. They used a water droplet scene with rageta too. Rewatch the whole fight again and tell me he's subsonic. Because beerus actually lost sight of him for a second. Twice too There's also ssj God goku vs beerus Chef vegeta didn't do much lol I just thought it was cool. I mean it did seem decently quick how he did all that but idk if it's supersonic Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 20 2016, 08:43 PM.
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