Timothy

Apr 21 2016, 02:38 AM

What is this cancer. Roshi could fight at the speed of sound. He caught bullets from a machine gun at point blank range

Ssj3vegito96

Apr 21 2016, 01:39 AM

They were probably fighting at the speed of sound because that's how combat speed has always worked in dbz and there hasn't been any change. They can use quick bursts of speed to blitz faster than their travel speed. There just aren't any booms animated

Suggesting that combat speed is subsonic but travel speed is mftl would mean beerus' combat speed is subsonic too but he was able to dodge a barrage of punches from tien piccolo and 18 all at the once. He was moving his whole body too

Vegeta knocked him well over a thousand feet into the the sky and vegeta was behind him right away. He's going at least the speed of sound there

The feat is clear cut but not really in regard to what you're making out of it if that makes sense

There's no author's intention to make them that slow. And while there might not be an intention to make them mftl, making them mftl at least doesn't contradict what we've explicitly been shown. And that's fine. But when you overanalyze and contradict everything, idk, to me that's a problem especially when it's not the authors intent to make them slow but to make them faster than before, even if they don't necessarily remember exactly how fast they were before. I know toriyama is cool with consciously contradicting stuff, but I doubt it's his intention to make them less powerful. Story wise im OK with retcons and when it makes sense and there's backing to it, power wise, sure. Super can do what it wants. But it makes no sense bring the characters backward this much when they're getting stronger just because of an over analysis. I think that's very important to consider

This has been a good debate bro but do you mind if we continue another time? I'm getting tired lol

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 11:54 AM

Ssj3vegito96

Apr 21 2016, 01:39 AM

They were probably fighting at the speed of sound because that's how combat speed has always worked in dbz and there hasn't been any change. They can use quick bursts of speed to blitz faster than their travel speed. There just aren't any booms animated

Suggesting that combat speed is subsonic but travel speed is mftl would mean beerus' combat speed is subsonic too but he was able to dodge a barrage of punches from tien piccolo and 18 all at the once. He was moving his whole body too

Vegeta knocked him well over a thousand feet into the the sky and vegeta was behind him right away. He's going at least the speed of sound there

The feat is clear cut but not really in regard to what you're making out of it if that makes sense

There's no author's intention to make them that slow. And while there might not be an intention to make them mftl, making them mftl at least doesn't contradict what we've explicitly been shown. And that's fine. But when you overanalyze and contradict everything, idk, to me that's a problem especially when it's not the authors intent to make them slow but to make them faster than before, even if they don't necessarily remember exactly how fast they were before. I know toriyama is cool with consciously contradicting stuff, but I doubt it's his intention to make them less powerful. Story wise im OK with retcons and when it makes sense and there's backing to it, power wise, sure. Super can do what it wants. But it makes no sense bring the characters backward this much when they're getting stronger just because of an over analysis. I think that's very important to consider

This has been a good debate bro but do you mind if we continue another time? I'm getting tired lol

I've already stated how I view DBS in relation to DB (And GT but that's in the future). This series stands on it's own based on the multitude of contradictions with previous Dragon Ball series. Maybe they can, but without sonic booms or distance traveled there's no evidence to that, and if anything Hit puts a wrench right in that. I'm sure they punch at the speed of sound, but whether or not they can constantly move at that soured something I'll have to check again and watch very closely before identifying if they are or not.

True, though one should remember Beerus in general held back quite a bit during this, and if what everyone is saying is correct, lied about the ten percent. It's not inconceivable (And if dbs goes where I think it's going downright the only possibility) that Beerus lied about the effort he put in studying all of the BoG arc. Beerus is easily the strongest fighter sans Whis and Vados, him being light soured doesn't men that much. Plus characters have taken on multiple opponents at once plenty of times, such as Pyrrha against team CDNL, she wasn't that much faster than them. There was simply a large gap in skill (And agility). None of which requires ftl reactions in Beerus's case.

Cruise ships are generally like 360 meters in total length. They were like... I'm gonna say 3/4th near the back (even though it's more like they're at the front), Beerus was knocked back quite far, but we aren't exactly shown how much, the water also seems fairly shallow for the ocean as well (otherwise that's probably have fought in the air was water fell around them or something) so I'm not sure that was 1000 feat into the air.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. You're saying I'm overanalyzing it I assume?

It's not to make them slow, being at the speed of sound is pretty damn fast, how many people can do that? However, Hit's feat was also shown directly and in terms of speed feats that's the most clear cut. Not much contradicts them being speed of sound in combat speed as well, at least in the fights they've fine. I doubt he's trying to make them less powerful, power scaling wise everyone here would wreck Roshi, but he hasn't really taken care to recall the speed of Roshi or Gotenks. They're not being brought backward, not as far as the story or writers are concerned anyway. They're not deliberately being made slower, is what I'm saying. DBS feats simply place them there.

I actually nearly forgot about this and yeah it's interesting debating this. I will say I'm definitely beginning to lean towards them being the speed of sound. Actually of the ring is five times a boxing ring (34 meters) Hit can still comfortably be above the speed of sound, which actually I think fits pretty well in general as the size of the arena. Not concrete of course but it sounds good and sensible for the arena. I'd say by U6 Goku and Vegeta and the gods are at the speed of sound, a little above it considering Hit. Though of course the gods are considered much stronger then them so that's probably not their limit in the least.

@Gokussj1000 & Timothy
You guys have better memories than the DBS writers, they can't even remember how fast Gotenks is.

@ssj4Gotenks
Ssj3Vegetto is a hypothetical, but what do you mean by ssjg Goku?



Can I just say it's very funny to me how this went from IS GOKU FASTER THAN TIME!? To IS GOKU FASTER THAN SOUND!?

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 10:50 PM

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

It mostly has to do with this


If that's not breaking through the technique, I'm don't know what is.

Also it's basically me and Ssj3vegito96 debating as to whether they are faster than sound or not.

I think so far he's agreed they're not necessarily FTL and I'm agreeing they're not necessarily slower than sound.

Which if the arena is like, around 34 meters or so I can believe they're faster than sound.

@Solid Snake

If he were "faster than a time stop" he'd never have been caught in the first place. The fact that people caught in it can break out tells me that it's more like Nox's time stop than Dio's.

Solid Snake

Apr 22 2016, 11:12 PM

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 10:50 PM

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

It mostly has to do with this


If that's not breaking through the technique, I'm don't know what is.

Also it's basically me and Ssj3vegito96 debating as to whether they are faster than sound or not.

I think so far he's agreed they're not necessarily FTL and I'm agreeing they're not necessarily slower than sound.

Which if the arena is like, around 34 meters or so I can believe they're faster than sound.

@Solid Snake

If he were "faster than a time stop" he'd never have been caught in the first place. The fact that people caught in it can break out tells me that it's more like Nox's time stop than Dio's.

Goku can simply bypass it now. Case closed.

Goddess Ultimecia

Apr 22 2016, 11:15 PM

Solid Snake

Apr 22 2016, 11:12 PM

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 10:50 PM

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

It mostly has to do with this


If that's not breaking through the technique, I'm don't know what is.

Also it's basically me and Ssj3vegito96 debating as to whether they are faster than sound or not.

I think so far he's agreed they're not necessarily FTL and I'm agreeing they're not necessarily slower than sound.

Which if the arena is like, around 34 meters or so I can believe they're faster than sound.

@Solid Snake

If he were "faster than a time stop" he'd never have been caught in the first place. The fact that people caught in it can break out tells me that it's more like Nox's time stop than Dio's.

Goku can simply bypass it now. Case closed.

That's being a tad too dismissive especially since he brings up a great point.

Solid Snake

Apr 23 2016, 12:05 AM

Goddess Ultimecia

Apr 22 2016, 11:15 PM

Solid Snake

Apr 22 2016, 11:12 PM

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 10:50 PM

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

It mostly has to do with this


If that's not breaking through the technique, I'm don't know what is.

Also it's basically me and Ssj3vegito96 debating as to whether they are faster than sound or not.

I think so far he's agreed they're not necessarily FTL and I'm agreeing they're not necessarily slower than sound.

Which if the arena is like, around 34 meters or so I can believe they're faster than sound.

@Solid Snake

If he were "faster than a time stop" he'd never have been caught in the first place. The fact that people caught in it can break out tells me that it's more like Nox's time stop than Dio's.

Goku can simply bypass it now. Case closed.

That's being a tad too dismissive especially since he brings up a great point.

How's it dismissive? Dude increased his time leap, Goku gotten so strong that it's practically ineffective currently. What's there to discuss?

Tinny

Apr 23 2016, 12:14 AM

Solid Snake

Apr 23 2016, 12:05 AM

Goddess Ultimecia

Apr 22 2016, 11:15 PM

Solid Snake

Apr 22 2016, 11:12 PM

Tinny

Apr 22 2016, 10:50 PM

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 22 2016, 10:35 PM

I highly doubt Goku broke through his technique, just that he was too fast for him to activate it and/or he was predicting when exactly he would activate. If it were true it'd be stated or at least will be stated later. I didn't read the entire thread but I've been told that apparently this makes him supersonic which I find equally ridiculous.

It mostly has to do with this


If that's not breaking through the technique, I'm don't know what is.

Also it's basically me and Ssj3vegito96 debating as to whether they are faster than sound or not.

I think so far he's agreed they're not necessarily FTL and I'm agreeing they're not necessarily slower than sound.

Which if the arena is like, around 34 meters or so I can believe they're faster than sound.

@Solid Snake

If he were "faster than a time stop" he'd never have been caught in the first place. The fact that people caught in it can break out tells me that it's more like Nox's time stop than Dio's.

Goku can simply bypass it now. Case closed.

That's being a tad too dismissive especially since he brings up a great point.

How's it dismissive? Dude increased his time leap, Goku gotten so strong that it's practically ineffective currently. What's there to discuss?

The initial post and few others are arguing Goku is faster than time by this. That's what's being discussed, not if he can do it, but why he can do it. So by those saying he's too fast for stopping time to be effective, I'm saying it has more to do with relative power. Goku is too strong for Hit's time leap and thus it cracks, thus why Goku is initially caught before moving once again.

Edgar Allan Bro

Apr 23 2016, 12:26 AM

It doesn't crack, those cracks are the same thing we saw when he used it against Freeza. He's only outspeeding and predicting the usage of the technique. It's just a higher end version of what he was doing before.