Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3
When will the dumbing down of games end?
Topic Started: Feb 23 2016, 11:28 PM (1,469 Views)
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

To illustrate my point, has anyone played the latest Wolfenstein game and the older ones?

In the latest one if you put it on easy mode you can literally stand in front of an enemy and it can take him like 5 minutes to kill you, even though your health regen maxes at 25 IIRC.
Seriously.
I genuinely went and made a cup of tea while an NPC attempted to kill me while I was on a collectibles playthrough.

They succeeded on normal mode IIRC but it still took over a minute. I think two guys together on easy mode pulled it off too but not by much.

It was basically like the start of this:




It never changes much unless you play on the hardest modes but even then mere statistics like how much damage an enemy does are changed, the game isn't actually any harder.
Most puzzles still amount to "press the big red button that's obviously the solution given that it's the only lit up object in the room" and the AI is still easily duped.


But really in Wolfenstein and others why does a difficulty level like that exist in a game that I think has an 18 rating, featuring sex, blood and gore, intense violence and evil evil swear words, even exist?

Setting aside who actually plays the games they should be designed to challenge the general brain capacity of their age group somewhat.


This can be seen in most AAA titles save for a few, they're dumbed down easy garbage 5 year olds could complete even though most of them are for adults.

Maybe someone will release a console with a single button next.

"Press A to win and get epic loot!" f***in' yay right? A games not satisfying if you don't get colour coded loot.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


You must be into some hardcore porno s*** if you want easy mode to be the equivalent of a hard mode.

My issue stems more with streamlining games, The Elder Scrolls is a good example of this. It's becoming less massive, less RPG, and more first person brawler. Seriously, start at Daggerfall in terms of features and look at the change in gameplay and the gradual removal of features. The streak stopped at Oblivion, which brought back a few features that were removed in Morrowind, but then Skyrim decided to take them right back out and then some. As well as making the world even smaller.

Edit: I've seen my 60 something year old Dad try to play COD... HE NEEDS EASY MODE. He would get slaughtered without it.
Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Feb 24 2016, 12:12 AM.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Games need more diverse difficulty modes. From "I am sixty years old and this is my first game" who is someone that might need that kind of easy mode to genuinely difficult modes. Some people suck at certain genres. What about a person who can press about a button a service in high intensity scenarios? How do you expect them to play a fighting game? Well just so happens that there's a fighting game based on beloved rpg series called Persona 4 Arena. That game has a mode where it outright plays itself for those who are terrible at fighting games but want to experience the story.

In any case, I find complaining about easy mode being easy insane. Play on hard mode I'd you want it to be hard and if it still isn't hard then there might be problem. Also no offence but I'm pretty sure you're asking the most skilled gamer on this site, it's not surprising hard mode feels like normal mode for you.

If anything is the problem, it's streamlining games to an absurd degree, like FO4. Black Widow/Lady Killer in FO4 is freaking +1 to CHA. Ridiculous.
Edited by Tinny, Feb 24 2016, 01:05 AM.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FutureProtagonist
Member Avatar
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

I don't think easy mode is a problem. Some people really suck, some people just want to relax and experience the story. There's also very hard mode if you want the challenge.

A bigger problem is how formulaic and "vanilla" games have become.
I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build.


Join DBZeta
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Steve
Member Avatar
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Goddess Ultimecia
Feb 24 2016, 12:04 AM
You must be into some hardcore porno s*** if you want easy mode to be the equivalent of a hard mode.

My issue stems more with streamlining games, The Elder Scrolls is a good example of this. It's becoming less massive, less RPG, and more first person brawler. Seriously, start at Daggerfall in terms of features and look at the change in gameplay and the gradual removal of features. The streak stopped at Oblivion, which brought back a few features that were removed in Morrowind, but then Skyrim decided to take them right back out and then some. As well as making the world even smaller.

Edit: I've seen my 60 something year old Dad try to play COD... HE NEEDS EASY MODE. He would get slaughtered without it.
That's not what I was saying at all it's just...who needs "difficulty" that easy? I doubt your 60 something your old dad would struggle to complete the latest Wolfenstein on Normal because it's just not hard at all.

Easy should be doable.
Normal should take a smidgen of skill.
Hard should take a good amount of skill.
Anything above that should be brutal.

Instead it's more like...

Easy you could do while watching a stream from a different game entirely, it might take a while but you'd get there.
Normal is a cakewalk at best.
Hard you'll maybe often, mostly in sections where it's not clear what you have to do not to.
And anything above that is pretty much "die in one hit" sort of difficulty, which is more obnoxious than it is difficult. Especially when the AI remains the same, stand on a rock or something and the only difference is it takes longer to kill them.

Also with CoD it's more about reflexes than anything else, it's not like you have to use your brain for anything other than that. Given your dad is in his 60's it's fair his reflexes might not be up to scratch :p


Quote:
 
Some people suck at certain genres


So why should the games cater to them and water it down for everyone else?

I suck at games like Mortal Kombat because I'm terrible at remembering a like 10 button combo consistently and with multiple characters.

But that doesn't mean they should dumb it down to auto-combo's activated by pressing a single button(or via micro-transaction, yay :D) so that I can beat anyone else at the game who plays it properly.

I mean, I know WHY games get watered down, because catering to a larger audience nets more money in the end but...when will it stop?


If you want something hard you pretty much have to pick an indie game dedicated to a genre or difficulty, like a puzzle game, The Witness for instance. Some mind bending puzzles in that and aside from a positive response many people are like "Walking Simulator 2016 omg why do people buy these"
"Where are my f***ing endgrams?"
"Will there be zombies?"

Then "puzzles" in AAA games are basically "Put the red thing in the red thing and the blue thing in the blue thing...congratulations you win" and those are the games that sell millions of copies and get 10/10 reviews for being "innovative" and "hardcore" amongst other buy baity buzzwords.


I worry for the future, only a few difficult series like the Souls series actually get appreciated for difficulty, in a AAA capacity.
Maybe someone will revolutionize AAA gaming in some years...by going back to the past and making them like they used to...


I remember games like Resident Evil being freaking awkward "I go where to do the what!?"
"I only have like 2 bullets left, if there isn't ammo in the next room I am dead"
"Oh hey Nemesis, let me fight you with a knife and die 800 times because the knife is worthless"

If they do Resident Evil 7 given how the series has progressed(aside from the decent looking remakes) it wouldn't surprise me if you start with a minigun and find ammo every five minutes.
Posted Image


Definitely not a succubus, fear not
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FutureProtagonist
Member Avatar
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir

ITT: Complaints about easy mode being easy.
I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build.


Join DBZeta
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Pelador
Member Avatar
Crazy Awesome Legend

Developers don't want to take too many risks. Targeting the lowest common denominator is a good way to do this. Yes it sucks from a creative viewpoint but from a business standpoint it's sensible. At the end of the day they are businesses and their job is to make money.

That being said, I still very much dislike the increasing casual nature of games which everyone here is alluding to. Hence why I generally stick to older titles. Some of which don't have tutorials or even a map.

Steve what's the point in an easy mode if it's going to be hard? Just play hard mode you goof. That's what it's for.
Edited by Pelador, Feb 24 2016, 01:22 AM.


Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/jonjits
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Steve
Feb 24 2016, 01:15 AM
Goddess Ultimecia
Feb 24 2016, 12:04 AM
You must be into some hardcore porno s*** if you want easy mode to be the equivalent of a hard mode.

My issue stems more with streamlining games, The Elder Scrolls is a good example of this. It's becoming less massive, less RPG, and more first person brawler. Seriously, start at Daggerfall in terms of features and look at the change in gameplay and the gradual removal of features. The streak stopped at Oblivion, which brought back a few features that were removed in Morrowind, but then Skyrim decided to take them right back out and then some. As well as making the world even smaller.

Edit: I've seen my 60 something year old Dad try to play COD... HE NEEDS EASY MODE. He would get slaughtered without it.
That's not what I was saying at all it's just...who needs "difficulty" that easy? I doubt your 60 something your old dad would struggle to complete the latest Wolfenstein on Normal because it's just not hard at all.

Easy should be doable.
Normal should take a smidgen of skill.
Hard should take a good amount of skill.
Anything above that should be brutal.

Instead it's more like...

Easy you could do while watching a stream from a different game entirely, it might take a while but you'd get there.
Normal is a cakewalk at best.
Hard you'll maybe often, mostly in sections where it's not clear what you have to do not to.
And anything above that is pretty much "die in one hit" sort of difficulty, which is more obnoxious than it is difficult. Especially when the AI remains the same, stand on a rock or something and the only difference is it takes longer to kill them.

Also with CoD it's more about reflexes than anything else, it's not like you have to use your brain for anything other than that. Given your dad is in his 60's it's fair his reflexes might not be up to scratch :p


Quote:
 
Some people suck at certain genres


So why should the games cater to them and water it down for everyone else?

I suck at games like Mortal Kombat because I'm terrible at remembering a like 10 button combo consistently and with multiple characters.

But that doesn't mean they should dumb it down to auto-combo's activated by pressing a single button(or via micro-transaction, yay :D) so that I can beat anyone else at the game who plays it properly.

I mean, I know WHY games get watered down, because catering to a larger audience nets more money in the end but...when will it stop?


If you want something hard you pretty much have to pick an indie game dedicated to a genre or difficulty, like a puzzle game, The Witness for instance. Some mind bending puzzles in that and aside from a positive response many people are like "Walking Simulator 2016 omg why do people buy these"
"Where are my f***ing endgrams?"
"Will there be zombies?"

Then "puzzles" in AAA games are basically "Put the red thing in the red thing and the blue thing in the blue thing...congratulations you win" and those are the games that sell millions of copies and get 10/10 reviews for being "innovative" and "hardcore" amongst other buy baity buzzwords.


I worry for the future, only a few difficult series like the Souls series actually get appreciated for difficulty, in a AAA capacity.
Maybe someone will revolutionize AAA gaming in some years...by going back to the past and making them like they used to...


I remember games like Resident Evil being freaking awkward "I go where to do the what!?"
"I only have like 2 bullets left, if there isn't ammo in the next room I am dead"
"Oh hey Nemesis, let me fight you with a knife and die 800 times because the knife is worthless"

If they do Resident Evil 7 given how the series has progressed(aside from the decent looking remakes) it wouldn't surprise me if you start with a minigun and find ammo every five minutes.
Why? Why should easy be doable? Shouldn't it be... easy? Normal should be doable, Hard takes a good amount of skill, very hard takes mastery of the game, and so on.

No offence Steve, but my mother can barely play shooters, she had her controller upside down when we played coop and thought she was the above screen. I didn't even know people held controllers upside down. Easy mode has it's place.

Why shouldn't a game have an easy mode? That's literally one of the best ways to do it, assuming you can maintain a difficulty as you go to hard mode.

You mean like MvC3, Persona 4 Arena, and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, all games which have audiences who wouldn't necessarily be good at games?

and you brought it to multiplayer where there are no difficulty modes, and if we're going there, then MK10 and Injustice literally let you post cheat sheets in (at least) local multiplayer so you can remember certain combos or moves. and again, don't forget the above examples, all of which are good games, MvC3 in particular has an Esports scene and everything, as does P4A.

Examples? I mean no offence but I'd like a case study

Souls isn't actually "hard," it's just made to feel hard. If anything, it's exactly like the easy mode you described, it might take a while, but you'll eventually get there. You just need to stay determined to finish it and you will, even Darksydephil has beat a Souls games and he is horrendously bad, to the point where I'm pretty sure easy is too hard for him most of the time. This guy is the guy who screws up basic combat in Zelda Skyward Sword.
Edited by Tinny, Feb 24 2016, 02:02 AM.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ding
Member Avatar


I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
Dingo

Dingo
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byn
Member Avatar


Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 AM
I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
I wouldn't call you dumb Din. You're just the lowest common denominator.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


I know I've had to go to easy mode before eventually making my way up to the other difficulties plenty of times, depending on the game in question. I remember I did that for MGR, and I'm pretty sure I didn't need to do it with Transformers Devastation only because of prior experience with MGR.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ding
Member Avatar


Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:36 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 AM
I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
I wouldn't call you dumb Din. You're just the lowest common denominator.
Don't lie. That's just a nice way of calling me dumb! :T_T:
Dingo

Dingo
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Byn
Member Avatar


Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:37 AM
Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:36 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 AM
I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
I wouldn't call you dumb Din. You're just the lowest common denominator.
Don't lie. That's just a nice way of calling me dumb! :T_T:
You probably just haven't put enough hours into video games m8. I'm terrible at basketball but that doesn't make me dumb. I've even met some amazing chess players (a game usually associated with intelligence) who were total idiots.

Go practice!
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ding
Member Avatar


Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:40 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:37 AM
Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:36 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 AM
I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
I wouldn't call you dumb Din. You're just the lowest common denominator.
Don't lie. That's just a nice way of calling me dumb! :T_T:
You probably just haven't put enough hours into video games m8. I'm terrible at basketball but that doesn't make me dumb. I've even met some amazing chess players (a game usually associated with intelligence) who were total idiots.

Go practice!
I'll need an easy/accessible game to start. Anyone here have any suggestions?

I don't want anything full of mlg players like league of legends or cod
Dingo

Dingo
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:42 AM
Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:40 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:37 AM
Byn
Feb 24 2016, 01:36 AM
Din
Feb 24 2016, 01:35 AM
I find games pretty challenging.

Does that make me dumb? Did they dumb games down because of people like me?
I wouldn't call you dumb Din. You're just the lowest common denominator.
Don't lie. That's just a nice way of calling me dumb! :T_T:
You probably just haven't put enough hours into video games m8. I'm terrible at basketball but that doesn't make me dumb. I've even met some amazing chess players (a game usually associated with intelligence) who were total idiots.

Go practice!
I'll need an easy/accessible game to start. Anyone here have any suggestions?

I don't want anything full of mlg players like league of legends or cod
Yeah, go ahead and go for Starcraft 2. Make sure to sign up for E-Sports qualifiers and also make sure that your opponents are from South Korea. It should be a good beginners entry.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Video Games · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3

Theme Designed by McKee91